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Jack Johnson Might Be Available

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Old
02-18-2012, 12:36 AM
  #226
willch878
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Sure do, I'm one of those guys........and you still have no idea what your talking about
So on a cup contender then, you think JJ deserves to play on the second pairing at even strength???

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02-18-2012, 12:37 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Sure do, I'm one of those guys........and you still have no idea what your talking about
maybe he gets information about JJ by lurking our board.

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02-18-2012, 12:38 AM
  #228
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So on a cup contender then, you think JJ deserves to play on the second pairing at even strength???
nah.... but he can be the second pairing on the olympic team............

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02-18-2012, 12:38 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by willch878 View Post
So on a cup contender then, you think JJ deserves to play on the second pairing at even strength???
Without a doubt

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02-18-2012, 12:40 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
maybe he gets information about JJ by lurking our board.
The only information you will get that way this year is that everyone but Quick is junk. When your last in the league in scoring, constantly losing 1-0 games, using fans reactions to form opinions might not be the smartest thing to do.

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02-18-2012, 12:41 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
nah.... but he can be the second pairing on the olympic team............
I'm sure this point will be ignored again

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02-18-2012, 12:42 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Without a doubt
Maybe if you pair him with a defensive rock who can cover for him.....Chara..... then yeah.

If you're asking him to hold his own or carry that second pairing, forget it.

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02-18-2012, 12:52 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
nah.... but he can be the second pairing on the olympic team............
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
I'm sure this point will be ignored again
Wasn't Mike Komisarek scheduled to play on "the olympic team"?

I do think Jack Johnson is at least mid-pairing guy based on his offensive accolades, but I wouldn't want him. A really solid defensive guy could stabilize his mistakes somewhat.

Don't think the olympic argument has much merit, mostly consisting of top 4 players.

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02-18-2012, 12:59 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by willch878 View Post
He's not the #5 defenseman for the Kings. He's higher.

And that's the problem.

He's a #5 defenseman on a cup contender with upside to be a #4.

If you want to call yourself a cup contender and you have JJ playing key minutes on your second pair, you're in trouble.

LA would be smart to run Doughty, Scuderi, Mitchell, Voynov in their top two pairings with JJ on the bottom pair with Greene...... which is exactly what they've done quite a bit this year.

On a cup contender, JJ should be on the bottom pair at even strength and on the top PP unit. He has upside in the sense that he'll improve enough defensively that he'll eventually be able to play on the second pairing for a legitimate cup contender.

But no.... right now.... there's no way he should be playing second pairing minutes at ES on a cup contender.
Wow. I can't believe you actually believe that.

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02-18-2012, 12:59 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Wasn't Mike Komisarek scheduled to play on "the olympic team"?

I do think Jack Johnson is at least mid-pairing guy based on his offensive accolades, but I wouldn't want him. A really solid defensive guy could stabilize his mistakes somewhat.

Don't think the olympic argument has much merit, mostly consisting of top 4 players.
he made the team long before komisarek went down.

nice try though.

i guess you want karlsson though.......


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02-18-2012, 01:00 AM
  #236
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JJ is -10 right now and is on pace to be a -15 over the course of the full season.

Doughty had a slow start this season to the holdout, partly explaining his dip in +/-.

LA has improved defensively this year from 7th ranked last year to 3rd ranked this year.

So JJ's improvement from -21 to -15 could be attributable entirely to the Kings improving defensively.

However, I'm not going to argue that because based on watching JJ.... I do agree that he has improved slightly defensively this year. He still sucks though.
Did you know that offensively the Kings are scoring .48 fewer goals per game this year while giving up .33 fewer goals. Translated the plus minuses should be even worse and yet Johnson's is better.

Johnson had 3 bad games this year where he was -4 (against Detroit) -3 (against SJ) and -3 against PHX.. He offset 1 of those with a 3 point performance against STL early in the year. Throw that out, guy is pretty much an even player on a team that currently sits at -1.

For those of us who actually watch him on a regular basis (every Kings game) can see the vast improvement. He is a top 2 guy, on ,as you say one of the best defensive teams in the league. With the exception of 3 games, defensively he has been every bit as good as Doughty and 2nd in minutes behind Doughty.

Lombardi will not be trading him anytime soon.

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02-18-2012, 01:47 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by fsanford View Post
Did you know that offensively the Kings are scoring .48 fewer goals per game this year while giving up .33 fewer goals. Translated the plus minuses should be even worse and yet Johnson's is better.

Johnson had 3 bad games this year where he was -4 (against Detroit) -3 (against SJ) and -3 against PHX.. He offset 1 of those with a 3 point performance against STL early in the year. Throw that out, guy is pretty much an even player on a team that currently sits at -1.

For those of us who actually watch him on a regular basis (every Kings game) can see the vast improvement. He is a top 2 guy, on ,as you say one of the best defensive teams in the league. With the exception of 3 games, defensively he has been every bit as good as Doughty and 2nd in minutes behind Doughty.

Lombardi will not be trading him anytime soon.

I'd rather have Landeskog. On this year's Avs, the average +/- looks to be about -5. Landeskog's +/- is a +15!!! The next highest guy has a +4. Switch Johnson with Landeskog and the Kings will magically be defensive wizards.

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02-18-2012, 01:56 AM
  #238
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I think some people on this thread are just trolling........shame to get sucked into it actually.

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02-18-2012, 02:00 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by fsanford View Post
Did you know that offensively the Kings are scoring .48 fewer goals per game this year while giving up .33 fewer goals. Translated the plus minuses should be even worse and yet Johnson's is better.

Johnson had 3 bad games this year where he was -4 (against Detroit) -3 (against SJ) and -3 against PHX.. He offset 1 of those with a 3 point performance against STL early in the year. Throw that out, guy is pretty much an even player on a team that currently sits at -1.

For those of us who actually watch him on a regular basis (every Kings game) can see the vast improvement. He is a top 2 guy, on ,as you say one of the best defensive teams in the league. With the exception of 3 games, defensively he has been every bit as good as Doughty and 2nd in minutes behind Doughty.

Lombardi will not be trading him anytime soon.
This is misleading. Jack is a team-worst -10. That stat on its own may not prove that he is a terrible defenseman, but he has had, by far, the worst +/- on the Kings for the past four seasons, and the season before that he was second worst.

Based on the mountain of empirical data, the other team is more likely to score while he is on the ice than against any other player on the Kings. Copper and Blue did an excellent article about how the Sharks exploited his defensive shortcomings in the playoffs last season. It was brutal.

At some point you have to accept that even though you cannot personally explain why something happens, there is some logical reason that it does and will continue to do so. He is bad defensively, and it is beyond my hockey knowledge (and apparently that of most posters here) to explain why.

Having said that, I like Jack's natural talent, work ethic, and heart too much to give up on him. That is stuff that can't be taught, while I think that solid defense can be. I think that the combination of him being left free to do as he pleased at Michigan and then him having a locker next to Rob Blake's (who had long since discovered that playing solid defense is not required to earn an NHL paycheck) set him back a few years in development. He should have spent a couple seasons in the AHL. But he's young still; he has plenty of time to unlearn the bad habits he's picked up.

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02-18-2012, 02:34 AM
  #240
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So on a cup contender then, you think JJ deserves to play on the second pairing at even strength???
Most definitely. See the guy play the Sharks 6x/year + more games on Gamecenter... dude is legit

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02-18-2012, 02:54 AM
  #241
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Most definitely. See the guy play the Sharks 6x/year + more games on Gamecenter... dude is legit
And this is coming from a Sharks fans.

Those guys are just trolling.

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02-18-2012, 05:46 AM
  #242
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Let's test that.

Chara - 27

Jonsson - 15
Biron - 13
Brewer - 11
Heward - 9

Yea, those are closely related.

2nd season at -27

Jonsson - 22
Hamrlik - 20


Better the 2nd season, but you probably should have done your research first....
What is your point? Chara was horrible w/ his +/- for 2 of his first 3 years in the league. Wow. He is clearly terrible.

Jack Johnson has had the worst +/- on his team by a considerable margin for ALL 5 YEARS he has been in the league and there's no sign of his streak ending any time soon.

There is no progression there (like the progression you saw from Chara).

I swear these Jack Johnson supporters play better defense than Jack Johnson does.

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02-18-2012, 05:50 AM
  #243
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Did you know that offensively the Kings are scoring .48 fewer goals per game this year while giving up .33 fewer goals. Translated the plus minuses should be even worse and yet Johnson's is better.

Johnson had 3 bad games this year where he was -4 (against Detroit) -3 (against SJ) and -3 against PHX.. He offset 1 of those with a 3 point performance against STL early in the year. Throw that out, guy is pretty much an even player on a team that currently sits at -1.

For those of us who actually watch him on a regular basis (every Kings game) can see the vast improvement. He is a top 2 guy, on ,as you say one of the best defensive teams in the league. With the exception of 3 games, defensively he has been every bit as good as Doughty and 2nd in minutes behind Doughty.

Lombardi will not be trading him anytime soon.
Did you know that if you add a measly .05 to Bryzgalov's save percentage he would be the best goalie in the NHL right now?

Messing around with statistics is fun!

"If you just forget about these games here, Jack Johnson is one of the best on the team in +/-!"

"If you round up to the nearest whole number, Ilya Bryzgalov has a perfect save percentage!"

"If you just carry the 2 and multiply by 10, Penner would've been an all star this year".

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02-18-2012, 08:03 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Wasn't Mike Komisarek scheduled to play on "the olympic team"?

I do think Jack Johnson is at least mid-pairing guy based on his offensive accolades, but I wouldn't want him. A really solid defensive guy could stabilize his mistakes somewhat.

Don't think the olympic argument has much merit, mostly consisting of top 4 players.
Then explain how Johnson is a -10 and Greene is a -1 etc...

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02-18-2012, 08:09 AM
  #245
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In response to some of the above touting JJ's merits -- you have to wonder long and hard why a team that is looking to win NOW is willing to part with a big young talented dman -- especially when dmen are so important in the playoffs. When most teams are overpaying for marginal dmen why would LA even consider thinning their blueline?

Unless the sum of JJ's talent don't add up and they think they can have a better chance of winning without his -21 and -15. There is some merit to the point defense wins championships.

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02-18-2012, 08:13 AM
  #246
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Then explain how Johnson is a -10 and Greene is a -1 etc...
Because Greene is on the ice for less even strength goals against?

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02-18-2012, 09:18 AM
  #247
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In response to some of the above touting JJ's merits -- you have to wonder long and hard why a team that is looking to win NOW is willing to part with a big young talented dman -- especially when dmen are so important in the playoffs. When most teams are overpaying for marginal dmen why would LA even consider thinning their blueline?

Unless the sum of JJ's talent don't add up and they think they can have a better chance of winning without his -21 and -15. There is some merit to the point defense wins championships.
That is an easy one, the kings can't score and need a legit winger.

Voynov is in the pipeline ready to step in.

JJ is not going to be given away, the kings are not shopping him to the entire league. They are looking for a top line player even if they have to add to JJ.

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02-18-2012, 09:26 AM
  #248
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This is misleading. Jack is a team-worst -10. That stat on its own may not prove that he is a terrible defenseman, but he has had, by far, the worst +/- on the Kings for the past four seasons, and the season before that he was second worst.

Based on the mountain of empirical data, the other team is more likely to score while he is on the ice than against any other player on the Kings. Copper and Blue did an excellent article about how the Sharks exploited his defensive shortcomings in the playoffs last season. It was brutal.

At some point you have to accept that even though you cannot personally explain why something happens, there is some logical reason that it does and will continue to do so. He is bad defensively, and it is beyond my hockey knowledge (and apparently that of most posters here) to explain why.

Having said that, I like Jack's natural talent, work ethic, and heart too much to give up on him. That is stuff that can't be taught, while I think that solid defense can be. I think that the combination of him being left free to do as he pleased at Michigan and then him having a locker next to Rob Blake's (who had long since discovered that playing solid defense is not required to earn an NHL paycheck) set him back a few years in development. He should have spent a couple seasons in the AHL. But he's young still; he has plenty of time to unlearn the bad habits he's picked up.
Thanks for the post, nciely done.

I don't think LA fans are saying that JJ is Scuderi or Mitchell. I do think that most Kings fans have seen him improve over the years and are trying to make that point.

To say he hasn't and to say he sucks because I have seen he play one game, and I think he is the most overrated player in the league, and +/- is the end all be all so JJ has no worth, is plain stupid.

Look I can do it too:

I saw Giroux play one game and he looked terrible....so overrated.
McQuad is a pylon I watched him for half a period and he got smoked, AHL player.

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02-18-2012, 10:27 AM
  #249
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[QUOTE=RetiredFlyer;44360051]Did you know that if you add a measly .05 to Bryzgalov's save percentage he would be the best goalie in the NHL right now?

Messing around with statistics is fun!

"If you just forget about these games here, Jack Johnson is one of the best on the team in +/-!"

"If you round up to the nearest whole number, Ilya Bryzgalov has a perfect save percentage!"

"If you just carry the 2 and multiply by 10, Penner would've been an all star this year".[/Quote

Your the guy who throws out all kinds of stats, which is it we can use them or we cannot?
Stats show that the improved defense does not offset the fewer goals scored. And yet Johnson's +/- has
improved this year while the rest of the team has regressed. Thats what that stats say there Moneyball..

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02-18-2012, 10:27 AM
  #250
Friedrich
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Originally Posted by fsanford View Post
Did you know that offensively the Kings are scoring .48 fewer goals per game this year while giving up .33 fewer goals. Translated the plus minuses should be even worse and yet Johnson's is better.

Johnson had 3 bad games this year where he was -4 (against Detroit) -3 (against SJ) and -3 against PHX.. He offset 1 of those with a 3 point performance against STL early in the year. Throw that out, guy is pretty much an even player on a team that currently sits at -1.

For those of us who actually watch him on a regular basis (every Kings game) can see the vast improvement. He is a top 2 guy, on ,as you say one of the best defensive teams in the league. With the exception of 3 games, defensively he has been every bit as good as Doughty and 2nd in minutes behind Doughty.

Lombardi will not be trading him anytime soon.
This is just a question out of curiousness, but you don't think Johnson would be traded for someone like... Carter, Nash or Parise?

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