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Rangers are interested in Nash (McKenzie: Rangers/Kings Strongest Suitors) PART II

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Old
02-18-2012, 06:57 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Hankenstein View Post
That's just ridiculous.

Olympics, WC MVP, and 3 points in 4 playoff games.
Even Zucca has done that.

While nash has 2 3 5 in 7 OG and ditto in his last WC.
Zucca is 1 2 3 in just 4 OG and 3 1 4 in 6 in his last WC

Way too small of a sample size

Nash contract is too long and too expencive IMO

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02-18-2012, 07:11 AM
  #227
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Sean Avery just said on Facebook that people within the organization told him Del Zotto won't be traded. Said he doesn't think it would be a good idea to go for Nash, focus on Carter or Eric Staal (?) instead.

Also said he'll probably get in trouble for saying all that, LOL.

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02-18-2012, 07:17 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
It improved as soon as I posted Hank's picture. Admit it guys. It helped.
I think Hank look like plastic. It`s too much. real men don`t use make up.

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02-18-2012, 07:27 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Sean Avery just said on Facebook that people within the organization told him Del Zotto won't be traded. Said he doesn't think it would be a good idea to go for Nash, focus on Carter or Eric Staal (?) instead.

Also said he'll probably get in trouble for saying all that, LOL.
Ouch. Que the dubi for staal proposals

Have Staal played on the wing?

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02-18-2012, 07:51 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
When you look down the line the Rangers actually NEED a Nash like player. Who is to say when Gaboriks contract is up the team looks to resign him? He'll be 32-33 at the time and a player with a history of injuries. You can let Gabby walk and address the other needs of retaining our own guys and other depth moves while still building your forward corps around Nash. This is very doable cap wise. People are overreacting.

You can set your self up to win the cup for the next 2 years with Nash, Gaborik and Richards on the team; and after that you can let Gabby walk and Nash will be the replacement up front if your concerns are not being able to resign our own guys.
So, you know what's going to happen in the next cba? You know what the cap is going to be? It isn't "very doable cap wise".

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02-18-2012, 07:56 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by nyy19891 View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfNPQ...e_gdata_player

5.1 cap hit.

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02-18-2012, 07:58 AM
  #232
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I'd probably do Johnson, Dubi, 1st, and Thomas. But would Columbus? I hope haha
Doubtful. Very. Try including a top prospect in there.

Note: Thomas is not one. Johnson has no value.

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02-18-2012, 08:00 AM
  #233
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I don't think the NYR should mess w/their chemistry for a guy like Nash.

NYR may think Dubi is replaceable.... even in a down year. I think that's far from accurate. Dubinsky's compete level is off the charts, even when he's playing poorly.

When Nash disappears. He disappears hard.

He's not the Jedi you're looking for.

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02-18-2012, 08:11 AM
  #234
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The good news about all the speculation is that we will know how hard Sather is going to pursue Nash tomorrow when we play Columbus. If Nash lights the Rangers up, he may as well just stay in NY and start looking for real estate.






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02-18-2012, 08:14 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
I don't think the NYR should mess w/their chemistry for a guy like Nash.

NYR may think Dubi is replaceable.... even in a down year. I think that's far from accurate. Dubinsky's compete level is off the charts, even when he's playing poorly.

When Nash disappears. He disappears hard.

He's not the Jedi you're looking for.
Dubinsky is so over rated its sickening.

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02-18-2012, 08:16 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
That is actually the most footage I have ever seen of Bobby Ryan ever. Admittedly I know very little about him. Obviously the video is of his highlight reel moments but he seems to have a good deal of snarl in his game, he could fit in well here in NY.

The next question is, providing he is even available, what does it take to get him?
Seems like from what I have heard at this point is the Ducks are the ones dealing from a position of strength.

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02-18-2012, 08:18 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by blue425 View Post
That is actually the most footage I have ever seen of Bobby Ryan ever. Admittedly I know very little about him. Obviously the video is of his highlight reel moments but he seems to have a good deal of snarl in his game, he could fit in well here in NY.

The next question is, providing he is even available, what does it take to get him?
Seems like from what I have heard at this point is the Ducks are the ones dealing from a position of strength.
I'd love Ryan (certainly prefer him over Nash/Carter), but I have to think Anaheim's run has them re-considering making any of their big three available.

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02-18-2012, 08:20 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Sean Avery just said on Facebook that people within the organization told him Del Zotto won't be traded. Said he doesn't think it would be a good idea to go for Nash, focus on Carter or Eric Staal (?) instead.

Also said he'll probably get in trouble for saying all that, LOL.
Yeah he'll probably get in trouble for that one. LOL.

And i dont know how we could fit eric staal under the cap.

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02-18-2012, 08:21 AM
  #239
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I don't think Ryan is available.

But my point, which I should have made clear, is if a huge package is to be made, it shouldn't be for Nash. It should be for a younger player with a far better contract.

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02-18-2012, 08:22 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Dubinsky is so over rated its sickening.
Funny, cause all Ive seen from people regarding Dubinsky is "hes not scoring but he plays hard and excels in other areas," which is 100% accurate.

The overrating is being applied to 90% of the players this board seems to covet, with Rick Nash and Jeff Carter being at the top of that list.

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02-18-2012, 08:24 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I don't think Ryan is available.

But my point, which I should have made clear, is if a huge package is to be made, it shouldn't be for Nash. It should be for a younger player with a far better contract.
I'm on board, in theory, but younger players with good contracts don't become available too often. Unless they have serious baggage, those players aren't dealt, and you're left with UFAs and superstars with high cap hits (Nash, Heatley, etc.) to pick from.

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02-18-2012, 08:26 AM
  #242
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Funny, cause all Ive seen from people regarding Dubinsky is "hes not scoring but he plays hard and excels in other areas," which is 100% accurate.
Except it's not.

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02-18-2012, 08:29 AM
  #243
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There's a lot I'd be willing to part with to bring in Bobby Ryan, but I can't see myself wanting to see that many changes to this roster during a playoff run, when we're in 1st freaking place.

The type of deal I'd assume it would take to get done would be along the lines of Dubi + MDZ + a Miller level prospect.

Replacing those guys in February would be hectic. And like I said in the trade thread, if Sauer was 100% and ready to go, I might pull the trigger on this.

But going forward (next season):

Ryan replaces Dubi at 1st LW, Kreider replaces Dubi at 2nd LW

Erixon lives up to his HF prediction of being our 3rd top prospect and PMD next season and plays on the left side with Stralman. Or maybe McIlrath has a great camp and cracks the NHL one year earlier than expected.

Ryan - Stepan - Gaborik
Kreider - Richards - Callahan
Hagelin - Boyle - Anisimov
Prust - Rupp - Mitchell

McD - Girardi
Staal - Sauer
Erixon - McIlrath/Stralman
7th: Stralman/McIlrath


three righties, three guys that can move the puck and 5 physical bodies. Not to mention still being one of the best skating back-ends in the NHL.
Would really suck to lose Miller as he'd be coming into his own just as money would be coming off the books and we'd be ready to add a winger for him. But give-to-get eh?

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02-18-2012, 08:37 AM
  #244
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For the asking price this **** is most likely not happening.

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02-18-2012, 08:39 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post
There's a lot I'd be willing to part with to bring in Bobby Ryan, but I can't see myself wanting to see that many changes to this roster during a playoff run, when we're in 1st freaking place.

The type of deal I'd assume it would take to get done would be along the lines of Dubi + MDZ + a Miller level prospect.

Replacing those guys in February would be hectic. And like I said in the trade thread, if Sauer was 100% and ready to go, I might pull the trigger on this.

But going forward (next season):

Ryan replaces Dubi at 1st LW, Kreider replaces Dubi at 2nd LW

Erixon lives up to his HF prediction of being our 3rd top prospect and PMD next season and plays on the left side with Stralman. Or maybe McIlrath has a great camp and cracks the NHL one year earlier than expected.

Ryan - Stepan - Gaborik
Kreider - Richards - Callahan
Hagelin - Boyle - Anisimov
Prust - Rupp - Mitchell

McD - Girardi
Staal - Sauer
Erixon - McIlrath/Stralman
7th: Stralman/McIlrath


three righties, three guys that can move the puck and 5 physical bodies. Not to mention still being one of the best skating back-ends in the NHL.
Would really suck to lose Miller as he'd be coming into his own just as money would be coming off the books and we'd be ready to add a winger for him. But give-to-get eh?
for any player im all for a starting player(just one) and a 1st and prospect(a or b) depending the player.i dont believe in tearing a team apart for one guy.This is hockey not basketball.

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02-18-2012, 08:40 AM
  #246
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For the asking price this **** is most likely not happening.
Agree.

Just get Gaustad and call it a day.

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02-18-2012, 08:47 AM
  #247
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First of all, absolute no to this deal if Columbus is demanding MDZ or Kreider. They are too core to this team's future both due to roster construction and salary cap construction - especially if you're going to add a $7.8MM AAV player. But, if you can do it with just Dubi and perhaps Sauer (and peripherals like Wolski) off the current roster plus a bunch of futures that don't include Kreider, then I think you have to look long and hard at this deal.

Nash is the kind of player that we're desperately missing. Personally, I'd rather have Ryan to fill the hole, but with the way that Anaheim has played for the last 20 games, I think that ship may have sailed - now AND at the draft. My guess is that BMGM is now going to try to keep the big three and build around them and so he's off the list of potential targets. So, with that said, I think you can make Nash work. As others have pointed out, next year is no problem:

FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($1.750m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Brad Richards ($6.666m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Carl Hagelin ($0.875m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.875m) / J.T. Miller ($1.275m)
Michael Rupp ($1.500m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Brandon Prust ($1.200m)
John Mitchell ($0.650m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Mike Sauer ($1.250m)
Michael Del Zotto ($2.000m) / Anton Stralman ($1.250m)
Tim Erixon ($1.750m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($0.900m)

BUYOUTS: Chris Drury ($1.666m)

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,066,666

Assumptions are:
- Kreider signs for Erixon money and makes the squad
- Miller (or some cheap vet) takes the 3rd line RW spot at around $1.3MM
- Pruster re-signs for a 50% raise
- Mitchell (or someone similar) fills the 13th forward role for about what he makes now.
- MDZ signs for about double his current salary (bear in mind that this is his first contract post ELC and I've projected him at better than what Dubi or AA got in the same situation)
- Stralman as an RFA sticks around for about what Sauer got
- Erixon makes the squad
- Biron sticks around for a "cost of living" increase on his current salary - or you get some other backup for a sub-$1MM salary.

All eminently doable and eminently reasonable. In fact, if Erixon makes the squad, it's of course likely than that he's in the top 6 and perhaps you trade either Sauer or Stralman and your 7th defenseman becomes a guy like Bickel making less than $1MM. So, assuming no increase in the cap, you've got minimum excess cap space of $2MM - but in reality it's probably more like $2.5MM (and potentially more if I've overpaid MDZ, Prust, Kreider or the 3rd line RW).

Now, of course, the general cry against this deal in this thread has been that "well of course it works next year - it's the year following that's a problem."

But is it? In looking at CapGeek the prospect of 5 bright shiny RFA buttons next to key players in 2 years is a bit daunting... but if you get down into the weeds and do the math, it's actually not as bad as you might think. Assuming the cap stays flat for the 2nd straight year, you would have room of at least $2.5MM plus Drury's $1.7MM penalty coming off the books for total availability of $4.2MM. So that's our starting point.

As we all know, we would have 5 key guys coming up for new contracts: McDonagh, Stepan, Hagelin, Anisimov and Sauer. Again though, the first three on that list will all be coming off their ELCs, just like with MDZ this year. So, if past history is any indication, all three will get deals that average out at $2MM AAV or less. That's a max of $3MM out of the pool between them to keep all 3. Not a problem.

Anisimov and Sauer, on the other hand, will of course be due for larger paychecks - but how much larger? Will AA get Dubi money? Will Sauer get Girardi money? I've already postulated that Sauer could get traded before his contract comes up, but certainly at this point you could trade one or the other for futures or a younger guy on a better contract. Throw in the $1.2MM left over to apply against the other guy (or someone else if you trade both), recognize that this leaves two years for other rookies to force themselves into the mix... and the team is just fine.

I don't think the prospect of being forced to trade Dubi now and then one of Sauer or Anisimov by the trade deadline two years down the line should hold up the prospect of acquiring a Rick Nash who could make us the odds on favorites for the Stanley Cup this year and next. (Heck, people are already proposing both those guys in deals today!) We would not be gutting the core - we would be trading one guy today and another guy two offseasons from now. And don't forget a LOT can change over the course of two seasons...

Last point - as to the cap itself: the hanging specter is of course the pending CBA negotiations. I've pointed out that this all works with the current cap holding constant for the next two years. In my opinion it's a fairly good assumption. When the league does push for a better mix of revenue splits, freezing the cap for the first few years is one measure to institute. If they actually do reduce the cap, there are way too many teams in exactly the same cap situations as the Rangers (or rather as they would be with Nash) for them then not to also make some allowance to work it all out. A salary rollback would be tough, but it's been done before. What about some form of grandfathering old contracts - perhaps any deal signed before the new CBA only counts 95 cents on the dollar towards the cap? Perhaps they allow contract restructuring like in the NFL? I don't know what the solution will be, but it won't be to completely screw the top 10 payroll teams in the league. (I mean, after all, the Penguins would be one of the hardest hit... ) So, working with the current cap makes a lot of sense to come pretty close to a ballpark number.

And you know what? Even if they do reduce the cap and the compensating factors aren't quite enough to make the math work - then, fine, you trade BOTH Sauer and Anisimov in two years. Do we really think that this is going to hamstring the team? I mean, I've already got them as the 7th/8th forward and 4th defenseman in my projected lineup for next year - and Sauer in particular could well be passed on the depth chart by then (which is not to diminish his contribution, but rather to point out what a great job the team has done in acquiring assets on the blue line).

So, again - my preference would be to go for Ryan, but I no longer think that's achievable. In his absence, if you can make the deal for Nash using Dubi and futures (other than Kreider), I say do it.


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 02-18-2012 at 09:06 AM.
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Old
02-18-2012, 09:03 AM
  #248
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for any player im all for a starting player(just one) and a 1st and prospect(a or b) depending the player.i dont believe in tearing a team apart for one guy.This is hockey not basketball.
Like I said this wasn't a trade recommendation for the season, but off-season. And it's hardly tearing the team apart. It replaces the one position we lose instantly (and a massive upgrade at that).

As far as defense, we have:

Girardi
McDonagh
Staal
MDZ
Sauer
Stralman

Coming close to a log-jam when we also have:

Erixon - HF predicts stepping into the NHL next season as a PMD
McIlrath - predicted to make the NHL jump year after next.

But what happens if McIlrath is ready to go in camp? I mean, we see it with a handful of defensemen across the NHL every season. It does happen quite often.

Erixon's projection should make him very similar in production to MDZ. I don't think he has near the physical game that MDZ has brought this season, but lets face it, if he keeps putting up points and playing this physical, he's going to look for top pairing money eventually. That would put us in a situation where eventually we'll be paying Staal, Girardi, McDonagh all 1st pairing money… no way we can pay 4 defensemen top 2 money. No way. If he doesn't make that jump to consistent scoring and consistent physicality then Erixon might offer everything on a similar level.

Sauer doesn't have any trade value at all. Stralman might have built himself up some value, but it wasn't long ago he was passed on by the entire NHL. McD, Girardi are going nowhere. Trading Staal when he hasn't even had a chance to get into shape would be the ultimate "sell low".

Sending MDZ as the major piece in getting a 70pt LW in this line-up seems reasonable, considering by HF's own predictions Erixon can be as good as MDZ, and that keeps Kreider from having to jump into the top LW by mid-season next year.

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02-18-2012, 09:04 AM
  #249
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First of all, absolute no to this deal if Columbus is demanding MDZ or Kreider. They are too core to this team's future both due to roster construction and salary cap construction - especially if you're going to add a $7.8MM AAV player. But, if you can do it with just Dubi and perhaps Sauer (and peripherals like Wolski) off the current roster plus a bunch of futures that don't include Kreider, then I think you have to look long and hard at this deal.

Nash is the kind of player that we're desperately missing. Personally, I'd rather have Ryan to fill the hole, but with the way that Anaheim has played for the last 20 games, I think that ship may have sailed - now AND at the draft. My guess is that BMGM is now going to try to keep the big three and build around them and so he's off the list of potential targets. So, with that said, I think you can make Nash work. As others have pointed out, next year is no problem:

FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($1.750m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Brad Richards ($6.666m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Carl Hagelin ($0.875m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.875m) / J.T. Miller ($1.275m)
Michael Rupp ($1.500m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Brandon Prust ($1.200m)
/ John Mitchell ($0.650m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Mike Sauer ($1.250m)
Michael Del Zotto ($2.000m) / Anton Stralman ($1.250m)
Tim Erixon ($1.750m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($0.900m)

BUYOUTS: Chris Drury ($1.666m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,233,334; BONUSES: $1,987,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,066,666

Assumptions are:
For forwards:
- Kreider signs for Erixon money and makes the squad
- Miller (or some cheap vet) takes the 3rd line RW spot at around $1.3MM
- Pruster re-signs for a 50% raise
- Mitchell (or someone similar) fills the 13th forward role for about what he makes now.

For Defensemen:
- MDZ signs for about double his current salary (bear in mind that this is his first contract post ELC and I've projected him at better than what Dubi or AA got in the same situation)
- Stralman as an RFA sticks around for about what Sauer got
- Erixon makes the squad

For Goalies:
- Biron sticks around for a "cost of living" increase on his current salary - or you get some other backup for a sub-$1MM salary.

All eminently doable and eminently reasonable. In fact, if Erixon makes the squad, it's of course likely than that he's in the top 6 and perhaps you trade either Sauer or Stralman and your 7th defenseman becomes a guy like Bickel making less than $1MM. So, assuming no increase in the cap, you've got minimum excess cap space of $2MM - but in reality it's probably more like $2.5MM (and potentially more if I've overpaid MDZ, Prust, Kreider or the 3rd line RW).

Now, of course, the general cry against this deal in this thread has been that "well of course it works next year - it's the year following that's a problem."

But is it? In looking at CapGeek the prospect of 5 bright shiny RFA buttons next to key players in 2 years is a bit daunting... but if you get down into the weeds and do the math, it's actually not as bad as you might think. Assuming the cap stays flat for the 2nd straight year, you would have room of at least $2.5MM plus Drury's $1.7MM penalty coming off the books for total availability of $4.2MM. So that's our starting point.

As we all know, we would have 5 key guys coming up for new contracts: McDonagh, Stepan, Hagelin, Anisimov and Sauer. Again though, the first three on that list will all be coming off their ELCs, just like with MDZ this year. So, if past history is any indication, all three will get deals that average out at $2MM AAV or less. That's a max of $3MM out of the pool between them to keep all 3. Not a problem.

Anisimov and Sauer, on the other hand, will of course be due for larger paychecks - but how much larger? Will AA get Dubi money? Will Sauer get Girardi money? I've already postulated that Sauer could get traded before his contract comes up, but certainly at this point you could trade one or the other for futures or a younger guy on a better contract. Throw in the $1.2MM left over to apply against the other guy (or someone else if you trade both), recognize that this leaves two years for other rookies to force themselves into the mix... and the team is just fine.

I don't think the prospect of being forced to trade one or both of Sauer or Anisimov sometime between now and the trade deadline two years down the line should hold up the prospect of acquiring a Rick Nash who could make us the odds on favorites for the Stanley Cup this year and next. (Heck, people are already proposing both those guys in deals today!) We would not be gutting the core - we would be trading one guy today and another guy two offseasons from now. And don't forget a LOT can change over the course of two seasons...

Last point - as to the cap itself: the hanging specter is of course the pending CBA negotiations. I've pointed out that this all works with the current cap holding constant for the next two years. In my opinion it's a fairly good assumption. When the league does push for a better mix of revenue splits, freezing the cap for the first few years is one measure to institute. If they actually do reduce the cap, there are way too many teams in exactly the same cap situations as the Rangers (or rather as they would be with Nash) for them then not to also make some allowance to work it all out. A salary rollback would be tough, but it's been done before. What about some form of grandfathering old contracts - perhaps any deal signed before the new CBA only counts 95 cents on the dollar towards the cap? Perhaps they allow contract restructuring like in the NFL? I don't know what the solution will be, but it won't be to completely screw the top 10 payroll teams in the league. (I mean, after all, the Penguins would be one of the hardest hit... ) So, working with the current cap makes a lot of sense to come pretty close to a ballpark number.

And you know what? Even if they do reduce the cap and the compensating factors aren't quite enough to make the math work - then, fine, you trade BOTH Sauer and Anisimov in two years. Do we really think that this is going to hamstring the team? I mean, I've already got them as the 7th/8th forward and 4th defenseman in my projected lineup for next year - and Sauer in particular could well be passed on the depth chart by then (which is not to diminish his contribution, but rather to point out what a great job the team has done in acquiring assets on the blue line).

So, again - my preference would be to go for Ryan, but I no longer think that's achievable. In his absence, if you can make the deal for Nash using Dubi and futures (other than Kreider), I say do it.
Tim Erixon and JT Miller will be the "futures" going in a possible deal along with Dubinsky.

Columbus can't really make a deal for just "futures" and Dubinsky.

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02-18-2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
As we all know, we would have 5 key guys coming up for new contracts: McDonagh, Stepan, Hagelin, Anisimov and Sauer. Again though, the first three on that list will all be coming off their ELCs, just like with MDZ this year. So, if past history is any indication, all three will get deals that average out at $2MM AAV or less. That's a max of $3MM out of the pool between them to keep all 3. Not a problem.
McD, Hagelin, Anisimov and Sauer will all be arbitration eligible. I seriously doubt they will give McD only 2 years. He's more likely to get a Staal type deal. Artie as well is in line for a longer term deal, 3 - 4 years, which will include 1 or 2 UFA years and drive the price up a bit.

And still, you are making the assumption that the cap won't go down, when every indication is that the cap will go down. Yeah, the players are going to fight it, but since when has a players union ever won?

You can't look at the numbers and say it's doable when you have no clue what the numbers will be. McD's raise alone could be 3 mil.

The bottom line is that Nash isn't worth his contract, and he isn't worth the potential problems his contract might cause. Until we know what the next CBA brings, it would be foolish to add another big, long term contract.

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