HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Rangers are interested in Nash (McKenzie: Rangers/Kings Strongest Suitors) PART II

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-18-2012, 09:07 AM
  #251
RGY
(Jagr68NYR94Leetch)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,062
vCash: 500
I can see them dealing anisimov when is contract is up if they add nash or carter

RGY is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:12 AM
  #252
ChrisKreider20
Oh Hai Guise
 
ChrisKreider20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,312
vCash: 500
You know whats funny?
Considering the premium's paid for defensemen this year, maybe Staal gets Rick Nash one for one lol.
You could definitely make an argument if you're Sather.

ChrisKreider20 is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:13 AM
  #253
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
#CBJ senior advisor Craig Patrick expected to attend today's #Penguins - #Flyers game in Philadelphia.
https://twitter.com/#!/Aportzline/st...72795830554626

2nd Flyers game in a row for Patrick who has brought in by ownership this season. Upper management wanted someone to help Howson. They spoke with Rick Dudley and John Ferguson Jr. last summer but didn't hire them. Howson is a little insecure about having another experienced hockey mind working with him.

The Columbus guy who has been following the Rangers is their cap/CBA guy Chris MacFarland. Their pro scout Pete Dineen was also with MacFarland but he disappeared to follow another team. They don't have a large hockey operations department.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:13 AM
  #254
Sticky Fingers
Registered User
 
Sticky Fingers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Funny, cause all Ive seen from people regarding Dubinsky is "hes not scoring but he plays hard and excels in other areas," which is 100% accurate.
Dubi gotta have some stealth skills, cos he sure get away with not doing a lot. Pre season the discussion was if he was the first or second winger, now he's third. He's taking bad penalties, not playing as hard as he used to and his scoring touch and playmaking skills is just not there. He might have a off season, but the way he gets away with his game while cashing out 4.2 million really astounds me.

And I'm not a hater of Dubi, but hes overvalued at the moment and get praised for nothing.

Sticky Fingers is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:28 AM
  #255
JimmyStart*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,569
vCash: 500
I feel very confident that the most they would do is Dubs, Wolski, Thomas and some picks...maybe one other prospect like JT or McI. No way Clb gives nash away for that they want to rob a team blind they want 1 or 2 more roster players on top of what I just mentioned. They have no real intention of trading nash they just wanted to test the waters to see if they could trigger a rebuild.

They'll get a future all world player 1st or 2nd overall probably do horribly again next season and continue to just struggle at mediocrity for a few years after at with one playoff appearance and Nash wishing he had never signed such an albatross tradekilling contract

JimmyStart* is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:30 AM
  #256
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Tim Erixon and JT Miller will be the "futures" going in a possible deal along with Dubinsky.
My assumption was that it would be McIlrath and Thomas. In particular because of the manner in which we got Erixon - I highly doubt Columbus wants another Carter situation with Tim. But, if that's the deal, then so be it. In the projected lineup in my previous post sub in McIlrath (or a cheap vet) for Erixon and Thomas/Fasth (or a cheap vet) for Miller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Columbus can't really make a deal for just "futures" and Dubinsky.
C'mon, RB - of course they can, whatever Howson says publicly now during the posturing period leading up to the deadline. Columbus is going nowhere this year and the "futures" we're discussing are all guys who could contribute next year, especially on a rebuilding team like the Blue Jackets. Besides, if they MUST have another player who is technically currently in the NHL, I was willing to include Sauer in the deal, if they don't mind waiting out his injury. (Or, conversely, if he's close to healthy, you could include Stralman.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
McD, Hagelin, Anisimov and Sauer will all be arbitration eligible. I seriously doubt they will give McD only 2 years. He's more likely to get a Staal type deal. Artie as well is in line for a longer term deal, 3 - 4 years, which will include 1 or 2 UFA years and drive the price up a bit.

And still, you are making the assumption that the cap won't go down, when every indication is that the cap will go down. Yeah, the players are going to fight it, but since when has a players union ever won?

You can't look at the numbers and say it's doable when you have no clue what the numbers will be. McD's raise alone could be 3 mil.

The bottom line is that Nash isn't worth his contract, and he isn't worth the potential problems his contract might cause. Until we know what the next CBA brings, it would be foolish to add another big, long term contract.
Okay, but that cuts both ways. I realize that my post was very long (apologies ), but I addressed this at the end. If the cap does go down, there will HAVE to be compensating factors, whether it be rollbacks, grandfathered contracts, the ability to restructure deals or something else. Somewhere in the neighborhood of ten teams already would be screwed by simply slashing the existing cap NEXT year, never mind the year after that, which is when it would affect the Rangers (and when it would almost certainly increase from wherever it winds up in 2012-2013 - if they were in fact to lower it under the new CBA). So, whether they freeze the cap or lower it while simultaneously instituting counterbalancing measures, the math should work out the same.

As to a potentially larger deal for McD in particular, you're also making assumptions - about arbitration eligibility two years out from now. As you pointed out, we may well be operating under new rules then and that extends to all aspects of contract negotiations. Given that we know that the new deal will favor owners, we can't just make assumptions about how it'll screw teams in trying to retain their players! Regardless, this is covered by one of the last points in my original post (again, apologies for the tome): if I have to lose both AA and Sauer two years from now, I'm okay with that. The far bigger issue is making sure we give up no more than Dubinsky off the current squad right now.


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 02-18-2012 at 09:35 AM.
BrooklynRangersFan is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:34 AM
  #257
JimmyStart*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
As to a potentially larger deal for McD in particular, you're also making assumptions - about arbitration eligibility two years out from now. As you pointed out, we may well be operating under new rules then and that extends to all aspects of contract negotiations. Given that we know that the new deal will favor owners, we can't just make assumptions about how it'll screw teams in trying to retain their players! Regardless, this is covered by one of the last points in my original post (again, apologies for the tome): if I have to lose both AA and Sauer two years from now, I'm okay with that. The far bigger issue is making sure we give up no more than Dubinsky off the current squad right now.
Gag is right it's highly doubtful they go too far away from the current system which has been working and been present during hockey's recovery since the lockout. The main issue is just money and though it's already decided things like realignment will be used as bargaining chips not the whole entire RFA UFA system that likely won't be touched. He's also right about our need to sign those guys coming up and he's right about the bottom line Nash's contract not being worth it and being the main blockade to getting a deal done. If he was 6 mil it'd be iffy but practically 8 mil? No effing way not happenning.

Nash the player is great. nash the asset is a pretty big negative


Last edited by JimmyStart*: 02-18-2012 at 09:40 AM.
JimmyStart* is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:36 AM
  #258
GregSirico
PUCK LUCK
 
GregSirico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
now him i am all LIN for

GregSirico is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:44 AM
  #259
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
McD, Hagelin, Anisimov and Sauer will all be arbitration eligible. I seriously doubt they will give McD only 2 years. He's more likely to get a Staal type deal. Artie as well is in line for a longer term deal, 3 - 4 years, which will include 1 or 2 UFA years and drive the price up a bit.

And still, you are making the assumption that the cap won't go down, when every indication is that the cap will go down. Yeah, the players are going to fight it, but since when has a players union ever won?

You can't look at the numbers and say it's doable when you have no clue what the numbers will be. McD's raise alone could be 3 mil.

The bottom line is that Nash isn't worth his contract, and he isn't worth the potential problems his contract might cause. Until we know what the next CBA brings, it would be foolish to add another big, long term contract.
Even if the NHL CBA follows the NBA model of maintaining the cap at the previous season level,the Rangers will be in a tight spot. The 2010-11 NBA cap was $58M and they agreed to keep it at $58M in the first two years of the CBA because it was going down with the cut in revenue %. 11-12 and 12-13 at $58M for the NBA. $64.3M cap this season in the NHL. The Rangers have $40M invested for 2013-14 with MDZ possibly being a group II with arb rights if he signs just a 1 year deal this summer and 4 other possible arbitration cases in McDonagh,Hagelin,Sauer and Anisimov. Stepan is a group II in 2013.

The NFL cap dropped $8M from 2009 to 2011. 2010 was an uncapped year. The cap will increase this season will increase slightly. Teams can borrow $2M from future caps. Team can carryover any space they didn't use the previous year.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:46 AM
  #260
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,964
vCash: 500
We don't need that franchise centerpiece anymore. Boston didn't win a cup with anything more than Lucic, Krejci and Bergeron on offense.

And referencing his Olympics...5 points in 7 games playing with Crosby and Iginla. Against some far inferior teams. Too much money for a complimentary piece.

DutchShamrock is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:51 AM
  #261
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Rebuilding a roster might be a good way to slash payroll and start anew, but it’s an especially risky proposition when a team’s fan base has already run out of patience. The fans here aren’t likely to accept a promise that all of these “good, young players” will become stars in two or three years, which we know means at least three or four, or perhaps never.

The fans are understandably skeptical. They have no reason — none — to believe that general manager Scott Howson and team president Mike Priest are savvy enough to blow up the roster and get it right when they haven’t done it in the past.
http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...any-risks.html

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:52 AM
  #262
mattyd99
Registered User
 
mattyd99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Warwick, NY
Posts: 560
vCash: 500
Has there been any talk of restructuring contracts in the new CBA? If so, then I can see why Sather wants to do this.

Nash is one hell of a player but as most have said, his cap hit will hamstring the team at a point when we are finally close to getting rid of all the bad contracts. It's a tricky situation as he's exactly what this team needs for Richards. Team chemistry could be affected in the process though.

One thing I'm certain about is if James Dolan wants him, we're getting him.

mattyd99 is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:55 AM
  #263
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
now him i am all LIN for
I've said all along that I would take Ryan over Nash. I just don't think he's available any longer - now or at the draft.

BrooklynRangersFan is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:56 AM
  #264
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
McD, Hagelin, Anisimov and Sauer will all be arbitration eligible. I seriously doubt they will give McD only 2 years. He's more likely to get a Staal type deal. Artie as well is in line for a longer term deal, 3 - 4 years, which will include 1 or 2 UFA years and drive the price up a bit.

And still, you are making the assumption that the cap won't go down, when every indication is that the cap will go down. Yeah, the players are going to fight it, but since when has a players union ever won?

You can't look at the numbers and say it's doable when you have no clue what the numbers will be. McD's raise alone could be 3 mil.

The bottom line is that Nash isn't worth his contract, and he isn't worth the potential problems his contract might cause. Until we know what the next CBA brings, it would be foolish to add another big, long term contract.
Every single lockout in hindsight. I agree about Nash. I'd rather have Krieder's modest projections at his cap hit.

DutchShamrock is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:58 AM
  #265
Noonan25
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country:
Posts: 1,334
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
now him i am all LIN for
I rather Bobby Ryan over Nash

But these will cost an awful lot

Noonan25 is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:58 AM
  #266
Kel Varnsen
Below: Nash's Heart
 
Kel Varnsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Isn't breaking the bank for Nash the same kind of "buy championships" mentality that ****ed us over in the first place?
It's the kind of "big names" over production mentality that got us ****ed over in the first place.

No trades. Keep the kids. Keep this team intact. Winning a Cup with all these homegrown guys will be a lot more satisfying than if we lose some of what has been the core along the way.

Kel Varnsen is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 09:59 AM
  #267
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Every single lockout in hindsight. I agree about Nash. I'd rather have Krieder's modest projections at his cap hit.
Oh, I hear ya. It's a non-starter if you have to trade him. In fact, if you do acquire Nash, adding his cap hit makes it that much more imperative to have Kreider coming up on an ELC.

BrooklynRangersFan is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 10:05 AM
  #268
Jumbo*
TARGET: ACQUIRED
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 16,720
vCash: 500
To Jackets:
2 of the following 3:
- Miller
- Erixon
- McIirath
&
-1st in 2012.
-Anisimov

To NYR:
-Rick Nash
-3rd in 2012.

Get 'er done Slats.


Last edited by Jumbo*: 02-18-2012 at 10:11 AM.
Jumbo* is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 10:06 AM
  #269
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
I think Dubinsky at 4.2M is just as bad value wise as Nash at 7.8M. therefore I take Nash Throw in Wolski and that is a lot of cap space that isn't producing much.

Gatorade* is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 10:12 AM
  #270
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badgerfan View Post
To Jackets:
2 of the following 3:
- Miller
- Erixon
- McIirath
&
-1st in 2012.
-Anisimov

To NYR:
-Rich Nash
-3rd in 2012.

Get 'er done Slats.
It almost HAS to be Dubi over AA for cap reasons. Even if you're the president of the Dubi fan club, it's hard to escape this fact. Otherwise, I don't think you're far off. I'd put it more like:

To CBJ:

2 of the following 4:
- Miller
- Thomas
- Erixon
- McIlrath
&
- 1st in 2012
- Dubinsky


To NYR:

- Rich Nash
- Anything else Slats can extract


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 02-18-2012 at 10:17 AM.
BrooklynRangersFan is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 10:15 AM
  #271
NikC
Registered User
 
NikC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 3,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellohf View Post
Dubi gotta have some stealth skills, cos he sure get away with not doing a lot. Pre season the discussion was if he was the first or second winger, now he's third. He's taking bad penalties, not playing as hard as he used to and his scoring touch and playmaking skills is just not there. He might have a off season, but the way he gets away with his game while cashing out 4.2 million really astounds me.

And I'm not a hater of Dubi, but hes overvalued at the moment and get praised for nothing.
not too long ago Drury was (rightly so), trashed for his reduced
Role @ his salary. Dubinsky never looked mentally ready for
This season imo. His game has regressed.

NikC is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 10:17 AM
  #272
Net Front Presence
Harvester of Sorrow
 
Net Front Presence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 5,914
vCash: 12500
The more I think about it, the less I want to get Nash. It would help us this year (depending on the trade), but in the long run it just isn't a good idea.

Hopefully he stays out west though. Can you imagine if a team like Pitt or Philly got him? Yikes

Net Front Presence is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 10:17 AM
  #273
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
not too long ago Drury was (rightly so), trashed for his reduced
Role @ his salary. Dubinsky never looked mentally ready for
This season imo. His game has regressed.
Maybe he performed well in his contract year.

Gatorade* is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 10:20 AM
  #274
Jumbo*
TARGET: ACQUIRED
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 16,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
It almost HAS to be Dubi over AA for cap reasons. Even if you're the president of the Dubi fan club, it's hard to escape this fact. Otherwise, I don't think you're far off. I'd put it more like:

To CBJ:

2 of the following 4:
- Miller
- Thomas
- Erixon
- McIlrath
&
- 1st in 2012
- Dubinsky


To NYR:

- Rich Nash
- Anything else Slats can extract

Hmm, what if we add in Wolski as well? He's another roster player for the Jackets and he is a RFA so they can resign him in the offseason? Sure he's been terrible for us but he might be able to become a 50-60 point scorer again for the Jackets getting 18 minutes of ice.

Or would that still handcuff us next year for the Cap?

Jumbo* is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 10:22 AM
  #275
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badgerfan View Post
Hmm, what if we add in Wolski as well? He's another roster player for the Jackets and he is a RFA so they can resign him in the offseason? Sure he's been terrible for us but he might be able to become a 50-60 point scorer again for the Jackets getting 18 minutes of ice.

Or would that still handcuff us next year for the Cap?
Yup. Honestly, we can add almost anyone this year - especially if Wolski goes the other way.

The issue is next year and beyond.

BrooklynRangersFan is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:44 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.