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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread V

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Old
02-18-2012, 11:10 AM
  #726
Scrivezina
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
I didn't want to mention it because it would be very debatable around here, but you are right Toffoli would, very likely, be involved in the deal. The deal is overpayment by a mile, but our need for offense is just as great. If I were in Dean's position, and that were the only deal available, I likely wouldn't do it. We can only wince and wait for what comes in the next couple of weeks >.< Will be an interesting moment in Kings history to say the least. Could be the defining moment of Dean's rule, good or bad.
Well, at least if it does go through, we will have another rant thread going to keep us busy...You know like that one back up goalie v All Star Super Star Quick, Richards for that one guy we traded and that low level prospect that went with him etc. etc

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02-18-2012, 11:13 AM
  #727
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Some of the names bandied about in reference to the Nash sweepstakes are the exact reason why it is essential that a General Manager needs to be able to manage free agency with efficiency. None of this would be necessary if Lombardi would've been able to secure Gaborik.

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02-18-2012, 11:14 AM
  #728
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And again I will repeat - they will want Voynov over Johnson. Potentially way more upside, younger, and cheaper. Why on earth would they want Johnson instead?

I think the trade has to be Brown (name player), Bernier, Voynov, and Toffoli for Nash and Sanford.

Highway robbery and a cap killer for the Kings but that is the price to be paid.
They would want Johnson because Columbus, like L.A., has difficulty attracting free agents. When you can get a defenseman of Johnson's ilk on a good deal for long term, why would you want the similar Russian kid who could bolt in a few years? That price is too much and I'd hope Lombardi would stay far far away.

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02-18-2012, 11:16 AM
  #729
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Some of the names bandied about in reference to the Nash sweepstakes are the exact reason why it is essential that a General Manager needs to be able to manage free agency with efficiency. None of this would be necessary if Lombardi would've been able to secure Gaborik.
I thought he felt Gaborik was not the right fit?

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02-18-2012, 11:16 AM
  #730
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Scott howson and scout are wartching the flyers game today. Id laugh if he was traded there. I don't get why they would.

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02-18-2012, 11:17 AM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
They would want Johnson because Columbus, like L.A., has difficulty attracting free agents. When you can get a defenseman of Johnson's ilk on a good deal for long term, why would you want the similar Russian kid who could bolt in a few years? That price is too much and I'd hope Lombardi would stay far far away.
I'm a JJ fan, but I would trade him, Bernier and Toffoli or a first rounder for Nash. Voynov is comparable to Jack, at least and the Kings need goals. Besides, Parise is going to get 7 million in the offseason and everyone wants the Kings to get him. Nash fits more now and the future.

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02-18-2012, 11:17 AM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
They would want Johnson because Columbus, like L.A., has difficulty attracting free agents. When you can get a defenseman of Johnson's ilk on a good deal for long term, why would you want the similar Russian kid who could bolt in a few years? That price is too much and I'd hope Lombardi would stay far far away.
perhaps...but I think they'll be attracted to Voynov's upside more than Johnsons. And remember, the 2 top prospects in the draft this year are Russian and Columbus will get one of them. Voynov would be much less likely to leave with a secure NHL position and a superstar Russian teammate, eh?

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02-18-2012, 11:17 AM
  #733
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It's a tough decision. If Dean blows this chance off now and decides to get a complimentary top 6 forward like the Penner deal last year, and put his hopes into signing Parise in the summer, which will likely fail, he would put himself at high risk of overpaying for someone less capable than Nash. LA's price is always going to be high, whether it be through free agency or trade. Everyone knows that we have failed numerous times to acquire this winger and that is pretty much our primary need. If we fail this deadline and with Parise, it is only going to get worse.

Honestly, what forward wants to sign with the Kings right now? Who in their right mind would come here, pay the California expenses, to play for this team when their livelihood is reliant on offensive production. We are one of the worst offensive teams in both our history and recent NHL history with questionable management and coaching. If they come here and go the way of Penner, it could ruin their career. They could just go to Detroit, Boston, New York, and enjoy success and more money instead, not to mention easier travel in the east and more downtime at home. It is not everyday we have shots at stars that are pre-signed like Nash and Carter... Dean has no easy choices ahead of him, and I am glad I am not the one having to make the decisions

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02-18-2012, 11:24 AM
  #734
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perhaps...but I think they'll be attracted to Voynov's upside more than Johnsons. And remember, the 2 top prospects in the draft this year are Russian and Columbus will get one of them. Voynov would be much less likely to leave with a secure NHL position and a superstar Russian teammate, eh?
Jack has built a good name for himself amongst the players and NHL people. He's very respected. Whether he has earned his star is debatable but he has star power. If Columbus didn't get a legit name in the deal Columbus fans would revolt even more than the have. Besides, you know what you're getting in Jack, at worst. Voynov has not shown the ability to play in the NHL just yet due to a plethera of injuries and young Dman inconsistancies. We gave Martinez and Driewiske the keys to the kingdom in the past. I belive in Voynov more than the others but he's frail and injury pone. You just never know.

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02-18-2012, 11:28 AM
  #735
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Jack has built a good name for himself amongst the players and NHL people. He's very respected. Whether he has earned his star is debatable but he has star power. If Columbus didn't get a legit name in the deal Columbus fans would revolt even more than the have. Besides, you know what you're getting in Jack, at worst. Voynov has not shown the ability to play in the NHL just yet due to a plethera of injuries and young Dman inconsistancies. We gave Martinez and Driewiske the keys to the kingdom in the past. I belive in Voynov more than the others but he's frail and injury pone. You just never know.
You could be right...it is all speculation at this point.

Interesting though that everyone here thinks that Johnson is expendable because Voynov can replace him. If that is so then why wouldn't Columbus have the same opinion?

I guess we'll know one way or the other soon enough.

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02-18-2012, 11:34 AM
  #736
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You could be right...it is all speculation at this point.

Interesting though that everyone here thinks that Johnson is expendable because Voynov can replace him. If that is so then why wouldn't Columbus have the same opinion?

I guess we'll know one way or the other soon enough.
Well, Columbus doesn't have the same needs as the Kings. Columbus needs a name. Also, they are deperate for young dmen. The Kings have a full system of d-prospects even if Voynov fails. The Kings also have a few contracts staring at them over the horizon and while Jack's hit isn't bad, it gives Voynov more shine with that contract over the next 2 years.

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02-18-2012, 11:38 AM
  #737
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Jack is more valuable than people give him credit for. He is a solid top 4 offensive defenseman, an Olympian, and has proven to be a good playoff performer. He has been in many pressure situations and is a more finished product. I am sure Columbus is looking at him through the similar viewpoint we see Nash through. He is a player we have to typically overpay for just the slightest chance to trade or sign to us, here is an established player, who fills one of our biggest needs, and is signed long term (albeit Jack is on a discount deal and Nash is overypayed).

Voynov is still an unknown quantity and his interest in the team is equally unknown. Columbus just recently got over the Filatov debacle, who knows if they are willing to roll the dice on another potential fleeing Russian. Voynov has mentioned in interviews that he is only so patient. Columbus is last in the league by a large margin. What if Voynov doesn't succeed there? What is to stop him from going to the KHL instead of waiting out his RFA years with Columbus?

Besides, I would argue that Jack's potential is still much higher than Voynov's. Jack's frame and capabilities are greater offensively and warrant a higher ceiling. He still has the capability of turning into an elite puck mover, whereas I would argue that Voynov is more of a very solid top 4 mobile defenseman prospect. Johnson is a potential #1.

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02-18-2012, 11:41 AM
  #738
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Jack is more valuable than people give him credit for. He is a solid top 4 offensive defenseman, an Olympian, and has proven to be a good playoff performer. He has been in many pressure situations and is a more finished product. I am sure Columbus is looking at him through the similar viewpoint we see Nash through. He is a player we have to typically overpay for just the slightest chance to trade or sign to us, here is an established player, who fills one of our biggest needs, and is signed long term (albeit Jack is on a discount deal and Nash is overypayed).

Voynov is still an unknown quantity and his interest in the team is equally unknown. Columbus just recently got over the Filatov debacle, who knows if they are willing to roll the dice on another potential fleeing Russian. Voynov has mentioned in interviews that he is only so patient. Columbus is last in the league by a large margin. What if Voynov doesn't succeed there? What is to stop him from going to the KHL instead of waiting out his RFA years with Columbus?

Besides, I would argue that Jack's potential is still much higher than Voynov's. Jack's frame and capabilities are greater offensively and warrant a higher ceiling. He still has the capability of turning into an elite puck mover, whereas I would argue that Voynov is more of a very solid top 4 mobile defenseman prospect. Johnson is a potential #1.
Everything you said was reasonable (or at least debate-able) until the last sentence. Johnson at 25 has shown no indication of being a #1....I can't imagine putting him in the class of one of the top defensemen in the league. He is a nice defenseman but hasn't shown the ability to dominate or control a game like a #1 would. And I don't think he ever will.

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02-18-2012, 11:56 AM
  #739
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Some of the names bandied about in reference to the Nash sweepstakes are the exact reason why it is essential that a General Manager needs to be able to manage free agency with efficiency. None of this would be necessary if Lombardi would've been able to secure Gaborik.
The Rangers wanted Gaborik. It wouldn't have mattered what the Kings offered, or matched, or anything, because the Rangers wanted him, and they don't care about money. They play musical chairs every summer with free agents.

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Old
02-18-2012, 12:00 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Everything you said was reasonable (or at least debate-able) until the last sentence. Johnson at 25 has shown no indication of being a #1....I can't imagine putting him in the class of one of the top defensemen in the league. He is a nice defenseman but hasn't shown the ability to dominate or control a game like a #1 would. And I don't think he ever will.
Jack has shown the ability when doughty has been hurt. He just can't seem to do it with doughty in the lineup.

Johnson, Bernier and a pick should get it done. Similar to the Richards trade. Adding Toffoli is too much. Dean could still end up with carter for Bernier +.

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02-18-2012, 12:05 PM
  #741
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Jack has shown the ability when doughty has been hurt. He just can't seem to do it with doughty in the lineup.

Johnson, Bernier and a pick should get it done. Similar to the Richards trade. Adding Toffoli is too much. Dean could still end up with carter for Bernier +.
Columbus would be smarter to wait till Draft to unload Nash. The offers would be better and more teams would be interested.

But I can see Columbus wanting Jack or Johnny B. So Howson could trade Carter for one of them.

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02-18-2012, 12:21 PM
  #742
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I say DL sits tight as the deadline approaches. I mean, how long can the scoring drought possibly last? Everything will be fine

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02-18-2012, 01:28 PM
  #743
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Holy crap! Does Steve Mason ever suck!

If I'm Lombardi I'm calling Howson right now. Reminding him that is what he has if he doesn't make a deal with us!

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02-18-2012, 02:35 PM
  #744
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Looks like Philly and Columbus might be close. Per NHL.com and CSN.

Quote:
Sources tell CSNPhilly.com's Tim Panaccio that the Flyers are listening and having serious discussions about the cost of acquiring Nash. Panaccio speculates that cost could be high.

"As for the asking price for a player of Nash’s caliber? Probably Sean Couturier and Brayden Schenn,” Panaccio wrote. “But … it may be something else. It may be James van Riemsdyk, another player, plus goalie Sergei Bobrovsky. Or a high draft pick besides a player. The Flyers don't want to move Couturier or Schenn, but if I'm Howson, I want both those players."
Yea get rid of another goalie and add more scoring, not defense Philly. That's what you really need to do. pshhhhht.

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02-18-2012, 02:42 PM
  #745
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I gotta think the Flyers organization recognizes that. What would they have to gain by accquiring Nash? Nash adds to their strength but hampers their ability to address their weakness.

My theory is that they're just talking in hopes of getting the Rangers to up their offer since both clubs would benefit by that.

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02-18-2012, 02:43 PM
  #746
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Yah- given this afternoon's exhibition I'd be thinking about goaltending if I was Philly; how's Bryz's contract look today Mr. Snider?

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02-18-2012, 02:49 PM
  #747
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A candid moment with Paul Holmgren and Peter Laviolette.



Holmgren: "Hey Lavy, Bryz sucks huh, oops on that contract! let's trade Bob okay?"

Laviolette: "Ya know the defense on this team is god awful also. I think on top of that we should add some more forwards and play a more wide open style don't you?"


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02-18-2012, 02:57 PM
  #748
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Looks like Philly and Columbus might be close. Per NHL.com and CSN.



Yea get rid of another goalie and add more scoring, not defense Philly. That's what you really need to do. pshhhhht.
Makes no sense, Philly can't give up 3 players on ELC's and take on 8 mil.

Even JVR switched in, not sure it works.

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02-18-2012, 02:59 PM
  #749
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What would happen in Steve Mason was our starting goaltender?

In all seriousness, I think we'd be 13th in the West (still ahead of Edmonton and Columbus).

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02-18-2012, 03:31 PM
  #750
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Makes no sense, Philly can't give up 3 players on ELC's and take on 8 mil.

Even JVR switched in, not sure it works.
Right?


I think the whole move in general for Rick Nash doesn't make sense.

If I am Howson I am saying...okay I have the number 1 pick. I take Yakupov. Now I have Yakupov, Nash, Carter, Dorsett, Brassard. That's a solid set of 5 forwards. Get some defense, and a goalie. If you want to trade the likes of Carter, do it for a defensemen, or sign one in free agency.

Philly and Columbus are about the worst possible trading partners out there.

Philly needs defense and goaltending. Columbus needs everything. More importantly, defense and goaltending. Oh okay so I am going to trade Nash to you for a terrible goaltender and some forwards.


SUCCESS.

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