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Blackhawks @ Rangers

View Poll Results: Yeah?
**** 14 32.56%
**** 6 13.95%
***** 7 16.28%
******** 16 37.21%
*** 7 16.28%
*** 6 13.95%
******** 13 30.23%
Other 20 46.51%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-17-2012, 09:40 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
OK...I forgot. How silly of me...It's just so much easier to blame the back-up goalie in order to ignore the horrendous effort by our fan favorite defensemen.

Bipolar fanbase at its finest.
umm, no, nobody is defending the performance of the team in front of him.

he was bad. saying he was bad does not change the fact that the d in front of him was good or bad. they are independant of each other.

Just because the D is bad though, doesnt mean the goalie gets a free pass for playing like garbage.

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02-17-2012, 09:48 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Since when does the opposing team get to CHOOSE if they want to be down two men or a 4 min 5 on 4?? The refs continue to make **** up as they go. Unreal.
I was wondering the same thing... I was at the game so I didn't quite understand what had happened or how that call was made. Is there anything in the rule book like this?

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02-17-2012, 09:52 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by NYRKING30 View Post
yeah man a huge contingent was there last night, the smart ones made some paper out of it.
I can't imagine they came from Chicago on a Thursday night. I'm thinking they are either recent relocates or NY frontrunners.

I'm getting sick and tired of seeing so many opposing fans at MSG. It never used to be this way, ever since Stubhub and TE came about, MSG is becoming less and less of a home ice advantage.

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02-17-2012, 10:30 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
umm, no, nobody is defending the performance of the team in front of him.

he was bad. saying he was bad does not change the fact that the d in front of him was good or bad. they are independant of each other.

Just because the D is bad though, doesnt mean the goalie gets a free pass for playing like garbage.
This post needs to be put in the HF Boards hall of fame. The D was garbage. But we still could have won this game with semi-competent goaltending. Goaltender like quarterback is a disproportionally important position, so they both catch disproportionally more flack.

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02-17-2012, 10:36 PM
  #180
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Inferno, have you ever seen a goalie go 0-4 in his 5 hole in 1 game? The only thing close was Thomas's pathetic performance against us last year when he blew a 3-0 lead. 3 goals went through his 5 hole. I can't think of any other game like that.

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02-17-2012, 10:53 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
umm, no, nobody is defending the performance of the team in front of him.

he was bad. saying he was bad does not change the fact that the d in front of him was good or bad. they are independant of each other.

Just because the D is bad though, doesnt mean the goalie gets a free pass for playing like garbage.
I never said Biron wasnt bad. But the reaction the whole GDT was that it was all Biron's fault, which it clearly wasnt.

The first 10 minutes of the game was a comedy of errors. IMO, Girardi and Macdonagh were 100 times worse than Biron simply because their lapses were mental. And it got compounded when it happened three times with that pairing on the ice in less than 10 minutes.

Coaches will tell you that they can live with their goalies getting beat on breakaways. What they wont live with is the garbage Mac and Girardi pulled last night. Luckily, they have been outstanding for most of the season so they get a pass. Just like Biron should.

I mean, the whole "what if Henrik was in.." is a fallacy. I questioned Biron's start as well, but who's to say that had Henrik been in goal, the three Hawks shooters would have had the same results?

Like I said....Toews...Hossa...Sharp? That's any goalie's nightmare...including Hank.

Even if Biron stops one of them, they still lose the game. It was a team effort in futility but Biron should most certainly not be atop the blame list.

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02-17-2012, 10:56 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I don't understand what different it makes what game I'm referring to. Not like I'm referring to a game from the 70s. Who cares who he faced? Not like every attempt these guys have on a breakaway/penalty shot is great. Those were all stoppable shots. A goalie sees 3 breakaways in less time in shootouts and most attempts are better than any of those shots. If Hank was in, and Chicago tried that crap, I guarantee you he makes at least 2 saves, I'd put my money on all 3.
Well he wasn't.

But it's nice to know you have the uncanny ability to determine the outcome of certain in-game scenarios.

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02-17-2012, 11:01 PM
  #183
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That Sharp goal was total Bogus. I think Marty got 90% of it. That should never end up in the net.
And seriously, Benny needs to work on his five hole with him.

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02-17-2012, 11:19 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
I never said Biron wasnt bad. But the reaction the whole GDT was that it was all Biron's fault, which it clearly wasnt.

The first 10 minutes of the game was a comedy of errors. IMO, Girardi and Macdonagh were 100 times worse than Biron simply because their lapses were mental. And it got compounded when it happened three times with that pairing on the ice in less than 10 minutes.

Coaches will tell you that they can live with their goalies getting beat on breakaways. What they wont live with is the garbage Mac and Girardi pulled last night. Luckily, they have been outstanding for most of the season so they get a pass. Just like Biron should.

I mean, the whole "what if Henrik was in.." is a fallacy. I questioned Biron's start as well, but who's to say that had Henrik been in goal, the three Hawks shooters would have had the same results?

Like I said....Toews...Hossa...Sharp? That's any goalie's nightmare...including Hank.

Even if Biron stops one of them, they still lose the game. It was a team effort in futility but Biron should most certainly not be atop the blame list.
You do realize that if Biron did his job those defensive lapses wouldn't have mattered right? Biron needs to bail out his team sometimes. I still don't get what it being Toews, Hossa, and Sharp has to do with anything. I've seen Jed Ortmeyer have a penalty shot where he completely undressed the goalie. Malik put up the best move in shootout history. Great players constantly have crappy shootout attempts and those breakaways and penalty shot were just that crappy.

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02-17-2012, 11:31 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
You do realize that if Biron did his job those defensive lapses wouldn't have mattered right? Biron needs to bail out his team sometimes. I still don't get what it being Toews, Hossa, and Sharp has to do with anything. I've seen Jed Ortmeyer have a penalty shot where he completely undressed the goalie. Malik put up the best move in shootout history. Great players constantly have crappy shootout attempts and those breakaways and penalty shot were just that crappy.
By that logic we might as well have Bickel, Eminger, Rupp as our first three shootout shooters in the future.

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02-17-2012, 11:39 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
By that logic we might as well have Bickel, Eminger, Rupp as our first three shootout shooters in the future.
You're completely stretching what I'm saying. I didn't say that guys like Hossa, Toews, and Sharp don't give the Hawks a much better shot at the shootout than other players, just that every shot they take is not unstoppable.

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02-17-2012, 11:56 PM
  #187
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IMHO if Henrik was in this game, we woulda probably pulled out a point, if not 2. Just my opinion, no way to know for sure. But Henrik doesnt get beat 5-hole very often, down low he's almost unstoppable. in 1 on 1 situations im not sure there is a better goalie in the NHL.

was the D terrible? yes. But Biron was putrid too. being the last line of defense, when you are putrid, it tends to hurt the team a hell of a lot more than when it's the guys in front of you.
Goalie>>>D>>>C>>>W in terms of defensive importance.

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02-18-2012, 12:13 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
IMHO if Henrik was in this game, we woulda probably pulled out a point, if not 2. Just my opinion, no way to know for sure. But Henrik doesnt get beat 5-hole very often, down low he's almost unstoppable. in 1 on 1 situations im not sure there is a better goalie in the NHL.

was the D terrible? yes. But Biron was putrid too. being the last line of defense, when you are putrid, it tends to hurt the team a hell of a lot more than when it's the guys in front of you.
Goalie>>>D>>>C>>>W in terms of defensive importance.
This is a serious semantics argument IMO...because without the Goalie...you have no defense & without the defense your goalie would stand alone...

rarely do you hear "Oh man the defense stood on their head and Lundqvist was so bored in goal" usually it's the other way around. The goaltender RELIES on the defense....a lot. Doesn't Lundy buy his defensive pairings a bottle of champagne for every shutout? Last year?

If you have a game where the defense and forecheck work together you usual have low shot totals (not always, I know) and if your goaltender is asleep...then we know what happens...low shot total but high GAA...[NYR v. TBL 2/9]

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02-18-2012, 12:30 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
You do realize that if Biron did his job those defensive lapses wouldn't have mattered right? Biron needs to bail out his team sometimes. I still don't get what it being Toews, Hossa, and Sharp has to do with anything. I've seen Jed Ortmeyer have a penalty shot where he completely undressed the goalie. Malik put up the best move in shootout history. Great players constantly have crappy shootout attempts and those breakaways and penalty shot were just that crappy.
Didnt Brayden Schenn completely fool Henrik on a breakaway about 2 weeks ago? The shorthanded goal that tied the game 1-1.

Not a single person blamed Lundqvist. Not a mention. It was all "You suck Macdonagh" or "I blame Macdonagh"

Fast forward to the penalty shot, and it was instant blame on Biron.

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02-18-2012, 09:06 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Didnt Brayden Schenn completely fool Henrik on a breakaway about 2 weeks ago? The shorthanded goal that tied the game 1-1.

Not a single person blamed Lundqvist. Not a mention. It was all "You suck Macdonagh" or "I blame Macdonagh"

Fast forward to the penalty shot, and it was instant blame on Biron.
Schenn made an absolutely slick move to his backhand and roofed to the puck. No goalie is stopping that.

Biron let in three breakaways through his 5-hole, which is inexcusable.

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02-18-2012, 09:40 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Schenn made an absolutely slick move to his backhand and roofed to the puck. No goalie is stopping that.

Biron let in three breakaways through his 5-hole, which is inexcusable.
All goals have weaknesses, and the Blackhawks & Devils (Kovi specifically) exploited that. Biron was relatively solid otherwise through the rest of the game and in the Shoot out loss to the Devils. Torts and Benny both know this before they even discuss who's starting in goal that night. No one could have anticipated 2 breakaways and a Penalty Shot. But that's the risk that is taken when you out him in. It's up to your offense and defense to "bail out" Biron and his exploits. If they fail...and they did in horrendous fashion in the first period of this game...then you wind up with a 4-2 loss. Biron will always be the same goalie, especially in the twilight of his career...the defense has to be better in being in position and the offense has to score....

Another thing....what are the odds of 3 breakaways happening in the same game again...let alone the same period...hopefully our defense plays better and offense lifts the lamp more than 2 in two periods.


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02-18-2012, 10:28 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Trident61494 View Post
All goals have weaknesses, and the Blackhawks & Devils (Kovi specifically) exploited that. Biron was relatively solid otherwise through the rest of the game and in the Shoot out loss to the Devils. Torts and Benny both know this before they even discuss who's starting in goal that night. No one could have anticipated 2 breakaways and a Penalty Shot. But that's the risk that is taken when you out him in. It's up to your offense and defense to "bail out" Biron and his exploits. If they fail...and they did in horrendous fashion in the first period of this game...then you wind up with a 4-2 loss. Biron will always be the same goalie, especially in the twilight of his career...the defense has to be better in being in position and the offense has to score....

Another thing....what are the odds of 3 breakaways happening in the same game again...let alone the same period...hopefully our defense plays better and offense lifts the lamp more than 2 in two periods.
It's weird, because teams usually play better in front of their backup than their starter. But Marty really needs work on his 5-hole.

You can fly a Boeing through it.

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02-18-2012, 11:10 AM
  #193
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The team was going to take the night off until the Hawks got greedy and started filling the net and then the Rangers had to pull up the socks and go to work . It was a sure bet that this game was one for a letdown because of the facts that we were jubilant after a few conference wins and Chicago was from outside the conference .It happens...don't over analyze it even if Biron/blueline was also terrible but that also happens...no biggie ! We will bounce back .

Personally if you want to blame somebody then blame Torts for starting Biron against a strong offensive team like Chicago .

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02-18-2012, 11:20 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Didnt Brayden Schenn completely fool Henrik on a breakaway about 2 weeks ago? The shorthanded goal that tied the game 1-1.

Not a single person blamed Lundqvist. Not a mention. It was all "You suck Macdonagh" or "I blame Macdonagh"

Fast forward to the penalty shot, and it was instant blame on Biron.
It was a great move by Schenn. I don't know how you can compare a great deke to a straight on 5 hole shot.

Are you seriously comparing this to this? I couldn't find the other two, that's probably Biron's least bad of the 3 too.

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02-18-2012, 11:25 AM
  #195
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Also forget about the fact that they were weak ass attempts, you have to be dumber than a box of rocks to get beat the same exact way 3 times.

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02-18-2012, 11:28 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
It's weird, because teams usually play better in front of their backup than their starter. But Marty really needs work on his 5-hole.

You can fly a Boeing through it.
Totally agree with this because its what a team SHOULD do because your backup goalie, on principle, is weaker than your starter, hence the term "backup." A 10-3-1 record may or may not me indicative of this, but I'm inclined to say yes in that in the beginning of the season our team was lights out with Biron in net. Are we getting tired? I would think that perhaps our defense is breaking down in front of Marty in the past few games and exploiting his weaknesses...

As far as his 5 hole....can a veteran goalie really change his style this far into his career? Is HE getting old & tired? Can we troll some Buffalo and Philly boards to see if anyone (or anyone here) knows if this is just been a problem from day one? cause if it is...our defense will have to be lights out in front of him...or else his next 8-12 starts could be rough.

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02-18-2012, 11:46 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Trident61494 View Post
Totally agree with this because its what a team SHOULD do because your backup goalie, on principle, is weaker than your starter, hence the term "backup." A 10-3-1 record may or may not me indicative of this, but I'm inclined to say yes in that in the beginning of the season our team was lights out with Biron in net. Are we getting tired? I would think that perhaps our defense is breaking down in front of Marty in the past few games and exploiting his weaknesses...

As far as his 5 hole....can a veteran goalie really change his style this far into his career? Is HE getting old & tired? Can we troll some Buffalo and Philly boards to see if anyone (or anyone here) knows if this is just been a problem from day one? cause if it is...our defense will have to be lights out in front of him...or else his next 8-12 starts could be rough.
His record is not indicative of his performance by any means. He plays against weaker opponents. With the exception of SJS, he hasn't faced any quality teams. Devils game-maybe, but we win with Hank in net in all his games except in MTL, because no one on this team can play there. Biron having a better win percentage than Hank is just something the Hank critics from other teams can troll on to say he shouldn't be in Hart consideration because he gives his team less of a chance to win than his backup, which is ludicrous.
I don't know if we win this game with Hank in net, but I'm telling you: that PS doesn't happen if Marty just swallows the puck instead of flubbing it and letting it go. The scramble doesn't happen, no PS is awarded, and the gate doesn't open.

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02-18-2012, 12:18 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
His record is not indicative of his performance by any means. He plays against weaker opponents. With the exception of SJS, he hasn't faced any quality teams. Devils game-maybe, but we win with Hank in net in all his games except in MTL, because no one on this team can play there. Biron having a better win percentage than Hank is just something the Hank critics from other teams can troll on to say he shouldn't be in Hart consideration because he gives his team less of a chance to win than his backup, which is ludicrous.
I don't know if we win this game with Hank in net, but I'm telling you: that PS doesn't happen if Marty just swallows the puck instead of flubbing it and letting it go. The scramble doesn't happen, no PS is awarded, and the gate doesn't open.
No I agree...my main point is that his record is a direct result of OUR effort...not his...it shouldnt surprise anyone that on one of the best defensive teams in the league...he has numbers as good as he does.

His best year as a backup was the year after the lockout. He etarted in 31 games and went 21 and 8 and had a reasonable 2.88 GAA and a .905 SV....it should be mentioned that Buffalo had the 3rd best offense in the Conference scoring 281 goals in front of their goalies...

Biron needs either a lot of defense or a lot of offense.....he's a backup...he will not change overnight nor will he probably change at all...we need to be better in front of him.

To me it SEEMS as simple as p----->q...

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02-18-2012, 12:39 PM
  #199
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Holy overanalysis batman.

This loss was good for them. They're saying all the right things right now. I expect a big performance tomorrow night.

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02-18-2012, 01:35 PM
  #200
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Holy overanalysis batman.

This loss was good for them. They're saying all the right things right now. I expect a big performance tomorrow night.
Lol after reading my posts....always use 30 words when 6 will do.

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