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All-Purpose Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread Part 4

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Old
02-18-2012, 12:47 AM
  #26
magic school bus
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Originally Posted by CloweForbidzYou View Post
havlats got really adding to team speed this year. the time in which he goes from press box to room helps coaches relay messages.

havlat+murray+doherty+stalock+1st should be an enticing enough packagethat columbus will take it if they cant get LA to bite on jj+bernier.

havlat while he may add speed, decreases grit and toughness up front. when he plays anyway. nash has a good amount of grit and toughness, and isnt a poor poor skater like heatley, hes like jumbo, slighly above average-good.
Keep it simple. If you can't make a deal that you think Columbus would accept by only trading out 4 assets MAX, then there's probably not a deal there. (when's the last time you saw a 5 for 1 trade? never?)

Nobody's taking Havlat, btw - his injury is a non-starter - especially for a Nash type.


Last edited by magic school bus: 02-18-2012 at 12:49 AM. Reason: sp
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02-18-2012, 01:00 AM
  #27
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Why is Havlat waiving his NTC and why does anybody want an injured Havlat exactly?

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02-18-2012, 01:24 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
Mitchell also fit that role for a while too. What I'm saying is that while some want a top 6 guy, I really want a guy that is better than DeJordan in all those aspects. Not a ton, just that much better to make DeJordan expendable. That's depth to me personally.

Just seems more reasonable and more useful. It's not a shot against Desi.
Mitchell has never been good at PK. Desi has been.

Desi's value is very close to Handzus. Better defense, faceoffs, puck recovery. Handzus gets Desi on puck control (if he can get to the puck) and scoring. Right now, Desi is on the top edge of a #10 which is the same as Mitchell. On the market, a vet #10 goes for about $1.5-$1.7mil (eg Talbot). Desi is not the one to upgrade because you just bumped payroll by about $1mil for very little playoff benefit (#10's are rarely playoff performers). At his current performance level, the Sharks should be able to keep him at $700-800k. Desi beats Mitchell in all areas except scoring as well.

Out of the current bottom 6, McGinn, Moore, Handzus and Desi are pretty much locked into the playoff lineup. You need to worry about the other two spots. If it is an upgrade, it will be on Mitchell (due to cost), Wingels, Ferriero, Winchester, etc.

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02-18-2012, 01:26 AM
  #29
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Capgeek suggests that Havlat's NTC is not in effect anymore.

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=3

Another reason why I was saying that if Nash's NMC/NTC would be totally gone, then if CBJ is dumb enough to trade him now, someone should pull that off then flip him in the offseason. But again, only if his NMC/NTC is totally gone, as Havlat's NTC appears to be.

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02-18-2012, 01:44 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
Wasn't the problem vs. Was the solution = What I'm looking for in this discussion. That's all.

The more the opponent is hemmed down in the offensive zone, the better the Sharks are. That's just the style instilled by the coaching staff. If those 4th line minutes can actually creep up to relevance, then it's great for the whole team.

But in return argument, what do you think should be done? I'm always game for listening
He was the solution for the role he was playing. It is when Desi and Winchester are playing together when they are relevant. I don't see the problem there nor do I see him as not part of the solution.

I don't think there's anything to be done. Once Havlat gets healthy, the team has all the ingredients it needs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloweForbidzYou View Post
havlats got really adding to team speed this year. the time in which he goes from press box to room helps coaches relay messages.

havlat+murray+doherty+stalock+1st should be an enticing enough packagethat columbus will take it if they cant get LA to bite on jj+bernier.

havlat while he may add speed, decreases grit and toughness up front. when he plays anyway. nash has a good amount of grit and toughness, and isnt a poor poor skater like heatley, hes like jumbo, slighly above average-good.
Incredibly short-sighted thought process. That trade completely guts the organization of its future and for what? A guy that is slower, uses his teammates less, and is not a proven playoff performer? And Nash is not exactly the kind of guy that personifies grit and toughness.

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Old
02-18-2012, 01:47 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
Capgeek suggests that Havlat's NTC is not in effect anymore.

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=3

Another reason why I was saying that if Nash's NMC/NTC would be totally gone, then if CBJ is dumb enough to trade him now, someone should pull that off then flip him in the offseason. But again, only if his NMC/NTC is totally gone, as Havlat's NTC appears to be.
No it doesn't. I Tweeted them and there response was that getting info on NTC/NMC is their most difficult job and the information should be taken with caution.

Havlat's NTC/NMC should be considered to be active IMHO.

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02-18-2012, 02:04 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
I don't have any names in particular but I wouldn't mind an additional 4th liner on this team. We are relying on homegrown talent a little too much for the bottom 6 and they are for the most part young and soft.

McGinn-Moore-another legit 3rd liner
Winchester-Handzus-another 4th liner

I don't care what you guys say - I loved Eager.
+1

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02-18-2012, 02:19 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
He was the solution for the role he was playing. It is when Desi and Winchester are playing together when they are relevant. I don't see the problem there nor do I see him as not part of the solution.

I don't think there's anything to be done. Once Havlat gets healthy, the team has all the ingredients it needs.



Incredibly short-sighted thought process. That trade completely guts the organization of its future and for what? A guy that is slower, uses his teammates less, and is not a proven playoff performer? And Nash is not exactly the kind of guy that personifies grit and toughness.
guts the organization of the future? you realize murrays gone after next year, due to the cap. stalock is redundent with sateri, sexsmith and anderson in the pipeline and only so many goalie positions on farm teams. if you believe stalock is better to keep then sexsmith then switch them.
doherty imo is overrated as a prospect because we dont have much else. its not hard to do good in a league when your stronger then everyone. i say he tops out as a #5 hal gill type, not tyler myers. havlat well, we know my opinion on him. the 1st maybe loses a bit of the future, but nash has a contract til 2018, he'll be under contract for a while and can be flipped for assets later.

nash well not a great skater, isnt a clowe or heatley level bad. hes around jumbos level, which is above average.

and how the hell do you think a guy can perform in the playoffs, when your team cant make them. based off the olympics, whc, he can raise his game when it matters

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Old
02-18-2012, 02:29 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Out of the current bottom 6, McGinn, Moore, Handzus and Desi are pretty much locked into the playoff lineup. You need to worry about the other two spots. If it is an upgrade, it will be on Mitchell (due to cost), Wingels, Ferriero, Winchester, etc.
Well let's get it down on paper then...

Marleau - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
McGinn - Moore - ______?
_____? - Handzus - Desjardins
_____?

Pretty obvious the top 6 are set. What happens with the rest?

(i don't mean that rhetorically at all... i think this is the main issue)

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Old
02-18-2012, 02:32 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by CloweForbidzYou View Post
guts the organization of the future? you realize murrays gone after next year, due to the cap. stalock is redundent with sateri, sexsmith and anderson in the pipeline and only so many goalie positions on farm teams. if you believe stalock is better to keep then sexsmith then switch them.
doherty imo is overrated as a prospect because we dont have much else. its not hard to do good in a league when your stronger then everyone. i say he tops out as a #5 hal gill type, not tyler myers. havlat well, we know my opinion on him. the 1st maybe loses a bit of the future, but nash has a contract til 2018, he'll be under contract for a while and can be flipped for assets later.

nash well not a great skater, isnt a clowe or heatley level bad. hes around jumbos level, which is above average.

and how the hell do you think a guy can perform in the playoffs, when your team cant make them. based off the olympics, whc, he can raise his game when it matters
First of all, Murray being gone is an assumption and reasoning it is because the cap is laughable. They have the room to keep him if they want and nobody even really knows what the cap is going to be so stop pretending like you do.

As for the prospects, their values are irrelevant when they are pretty much the only ones we have plus we're trading it for someone who is at best a minor upgrade for our purposes.

Going from Havlat to Nash in terms of skating is a downgrade. It is also a downgrade in overall team play because of the way he plays. And your last point is not really relevant because I never condemned Nash to being unable to perform in the playoffs. I merely pointed out that Havlat is a proven performer and Nash isn't.

I prefer having Havlat over Nash when the goal is to win the Cup considering what this team has and what would better improve their chances in that regard both in terms of skill set and in terms of cap dollars being used.

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Old
02-18-2012, 02:33 AM
  #36
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Marleau - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
McGinn - Moore - ______?
Winchester - Handzus - Desjardins
Mitchell, Wingels, Ferriero, McCarthy, Murray (and all the Black Aces)

So one more acquisition and the Sharks would be in pretty good shape.

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Old
02-18-2012, 02:37 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Marleau - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
McGinn - Moore - ______?
Winchester - Handzus - Desjardins
Mitchell, Wingels, Ferriero, McCarthy, Murray (and all the Black Aces)

So one more acquisition and the Sharks would be in pretty good shape.




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Old
02-18-2012, 02:43 AM
  #38
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Wellwood would be a good fit next to McGinn and Moore.



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02-18-2012, 02:43 AM
  #39
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I asked this before but it didn't get answered. Can Moore be adequate in the top six where he can forecheck and not bog down the line? I'm intrigued with going with McGinn-Handzus-Havlat for the third line so if Moore can play with Thornton and Pavelski, they can go with that third line. I know some people don't like Handzus but I think he's better than a 4th liner. The ideal situation obviously is to get the top six tweener and the lineup will be beastly but doubt that will happen with many teams looking and not many teams selling.

Tweener-Thornton-Pavelski
Marleau-Couture-Clowe
McGinn-Moore-Havlat
Winchester-Handzus-Warm Body

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02-18-2012, 02:44 AM
  #40
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Old
02-18-2012, 02:57 AM
  #41
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As I said in the other thread, I still believe Moss would be great. I don't know much about his Injury but I'd love seeing a lines of

Marleau - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
McGinn - Moore - Moss
Winchester - Handzus - Desjardins

Rotate the top 3 lines equally, use Handzus and Desjardins as primary PK'ers.

That 3rd line, to me, is so strong. It's relatively quick, They're all hard hitting players, you still have two guys who can take faceoffs (Moss used to play centre), and all three of them play with nice engery. Plus, they can all score goals.

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02-18-2012, 03:12 AM
  #42
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This is his main focus right now



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02-18-2012, 03:28 AM
  #43
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I like the Moore pickup. But it seems that DW is probably done after that one move. Won't be too much room on the team after Havlat and Sheppard come back from IR, and the D is already 8+ deep.

One thing that kind of scares me is Nashville grabbing Gill. Could pose a problem for the Sharks if they meet in the 2nd round. His size and PK ability will match up well against JT and his linemates while Suter/Weber should make life miserable for the 2nd line.

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02-18-2012, 03:36 AM
  #44
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Old
02-18-2012, 09:21 AM
  #45
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No it doesn't. I Tweeted them and there response was that getting info on NTC/NMC is their most difficult job and the information should be taken with caution.

Havlat's NTC/NMC should be considered to be active IMHO.
I got an even better answer - they told me to send them a valid link that he had a NTC...either way, there is a very, very, very small chance that Havlat and DW decided that the Sharks didn't have to honor but I seriously doubt that's the case.

Havlat will not be part of a deal for Nash, not because of his NTC (though he wouldn't waive it for CBJ) but because there is NO reason for Columbus to want him.

Another thing on Nash, they don't have to trade him before the deadline. If CBJ doesn't get an offer that they want they will wait til the offseason, which is what I think will happen. Nash isn't a guy to cause waves and will quietly play the season out and wait to hear where his new home is in the summer.


Last edited by stalockrox: 02-18-2012 at 09:27 AM.
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Old
02-18-2012, 10:59 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
Well let's get it down on paper then...

Marleau - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
McGinn - Moore - ______?
_____? - Handzus - Desjardins
_____?

Pretty obvious the top 6 are set. What happens with the rest?

(i don't mean that rhetorically at all... i think this is the main issue)
IMO, DW is done dealing for bottom 6. If he gets a top 6, Havlat or Clowe moves down taking one of those slots. I like Winchester, but coaches rarely make players like Winchester regulars in a playoff lineup. They go for guys with more offensive skill like Wingels or Ferriero. With the way it has gone, I actually think Mitchell, Winchester, Wingels and Ferriero will rotate. That rotation is a compliment to Winchester who has shown that he is far more than an enforcer. The rotation is a negative to Mitchell who has shown that he doesn't maintain the cycle well consistently. If I were TM with their current play, I would have Wingels on 3rd line and Mitchell on 4th. Any slippage, Winchester. Last resort, Ferriero. I like McCarthy as well for his cycle and defense, but I don't think the coaching staff does and I think he has the least scoring promise of all of them.

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Old
02-18-2012, 12:49 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
IMO, DW is done dealing for bottom 6. If he gets a top 6, Havlat or Clowe moves down taking one of those slots. I like Winchester, but coaches rarely make players like Winchester regulars in a playoff lineup. They go for guys with more offensive skill like Wingels or Ferriero. With the way it has gone, I actually think Mitchell, Winchester, Wingels and Ferriero will rotate. That rotation is a compliment to Winchester who has shown that he is far more than an enforcer. The rotation is a negative to Mitchell who has shown that he doesn't maintain the cycle well consistently. If I were TM with their current play, I would have Wingels on 3rd line and Mitchell on 4th. Any slippage, Winchester. Last resort, Ferriero. I like McCarthy as well for his cycle and defense, but I don't think the coaching staff does and I think he has the least scoring promise of all of them.
I agree with this post except I'm not so sure that Wingels is a better option than Mitchell for the 3rd line in the playoffs.

The only kind of tade I see DW making is a young PMD (Demers/Braun) for a young winger. Too bad Minnesota didn't want Demers/Braun instead of Setoguchi.

Marleau - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Setoguchi
McGinn - Moore - Havlat
Desjardins - Handzus - Mitchell

Vlasic - Boyle
Murray - Burns
White - Demers/Braun

Looks good to me.

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Old
02-18-2012, 01:04 PM
  #48
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I agree with this post except I'm not so sure that Wingels is a better option than Mitchell for the 3rd line in the playoffs.

The only kind of tade I see DW making is a young PMD (Demers/Braun) for a young winger. Too bad Minnesota didn't want Demers/Braun instead of Setoguchi.

Marleau - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Setoguchi
McGinn - Moore - Havlat
Desjardins - Handzus - Mitchell

Vlasic - Boyle
Murray - Burns
White - Demers/Braun

Looks good to me.
IMO, White is losing ground in the coach's eyes. I am waiting to look at minute distribution on Braun and Demers when Demers gets back. Compare it to Vandy and White. I wouldn't be surprised to see Demers/Braun as bottom pair in the playoffs and I am pretty sure Braun is ahead of Demers in the coach's eyes (mine as well for defensive coverage).

I am looking at Wingels' cycle play. He is slightly over McGinn but McGinn is better for scoring touch. Wingels is also trusted with higher matchups.

The last part of the season should show us where the coaches are placing their trust.

I agree with your take on liking to rework the trade. Minnesota probably should have thought twice about it although they have multiple holes in their lineup.

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02-18-2012, 01:16 PM
  #49
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Wingels will be in our playoff lineup. Kid has all the tools...hoping he takes mitchells place toward the end of the season.

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02-18-2012, 01:16 PM
  #50
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This is not a rumor, just found it really funny:
Sutter: "(Penner) went out of the lineup because he was horse(crap), so he'd better step up to the plate or he might not get another look."

As for rumors - Columbus & Philly brass had a 45 minute face to face meeting today, Philly pundits believe it's for Nash.

This is from Aaron Portzline, the CBJ beat writer:
Told #CBJ GM Scott Howson and sr adviser Craig Patrick in Philadelphia, met w #Flyers GM Paul Holmgren and sr. vp Bobby Clark for 45 mins.

There might be more suitors / teams in on Nash than people think.

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