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Itís Time For LA Kings GM Dean Lombardi To Address His Teamís Futility

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Old
02-18-2012, 02:38 PM
  #26
moosehead81
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Pretty easy to just blame the goal scoring woes on a lack of execution by the players but, come on, this happens game in game out every game? I somehow don't think so; a fundamental error in the make up of the team wrt goal scoring and the over-all defensive posture exhibited by the players (and likely taught by the coaching staff) is what creates the lack of scoring. It appears to me that the forwards are almost continually afraid to abandon their defensive positioning taught by the coaches for goal scoring opportunities. That's a coaching problem, not a lack of execution.

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02-18-2012, 02:50 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosehead81 View Post
Pretty easy to just blame the goal scoring woes on a lack of execution by the players but, come on, this happens game in game out every game? I somehow don't think so; a fundamental error in the make up of the team wrt goal scoring and the over-all defensive posture exhibited by the players (and likely taught by the coaching staff) is what creates the lack of scoring. It appears to me that the forwards are almost continually afraid to abandon their defensive positioning taught by the coaches for goal scoring opportunities. That's a coaching problem, not a lack of execution.
Sorry, I have to disagree. Look at Nashville. THEY ARE BORING!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT - No Kopitars or stars and yet their offense is 13th in the league. Power play 2nd in the league. Why because they play the system well.

30th in the league on offense. Oh yes... it is the players.

There comes a point and time where you have to make players accountable no matter who they are.

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02-18-2012, 02:52 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by moosehead81 View Post
That's a coaching problem, not a lack of execution.
It is a lack of execution. Again, look at Nasville....

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02-18-2012, 03:56 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by The Judge View Post
I agree with most of your points and everything.

But I just feel Kopitar has to elevate his game.

We can talk about, discuss about systems, new vision and X and Os but until each player put in a full commitment in elevating his game as an individual player. I don't care who coaches your team you're going to win.

Like you said, "WINNING MENTALITY."

But that "winning mentality" is only a result of "commitment" from each individual players to elevate their game, from conditioning, refining their strength, improving where they are weak as a player and so on....but I don't see that from our core players....

Doughty.... - has not elevated / improved his game since being a Norris candidate
Kopitar.... has not either... esp at $6.8 million
Brown.... we can find a 20-25 goal scorer who can hIt. He's nothing special yet... projected to be a power forward - never pan out yet......
Johnson....... hasn't been consistent... his plus minus..... still a minus...

Only Quick has been really the only one who has elevated his game IMO.
I like Dean to be fired. But he has a point, until the core elevates their game.... we won't go so far as a franchise.

Because by the end of the day..... it's about time the players step up...

In the end, we are just giving players... excuses... IMO.

edit: WE HAVE TO MAKE PLAYERS ACCOUNTABLE TOO!


Completely agree here.
It's up to the players and the coaches.

I feel since years we don't have the right coaching system. We don't need
the good uncle from the neighborhood. We need the high skilled sucess coach.

And for the players..... i'm at the point when i think riding the bus a couple of games from Manchester would be perfect for Mr. Kopitar and Mr. Doughty.....

We need something drastic here. This childs birthday party on a ponyfarm has to end.

We would win the Stanley Cup if you could win it with excuses.

Who is not able to succeed or to give in whats nescessary is gone.... priod.

Ask Mr. Fedorov what the Red Wings did to him.
Who simply doesn't want to give everything finds himself in Columbus....
That sends the right signals not this defending in front of the media bla bla

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Old
02-18-2012, 03:58 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
Jack Johnson is not a replacement for Mitchell or Scuderi. Those guys can play defense, Jack Johnson and his career -90, can't.
You're missing the point. It doesn't matter what Johnson is "slotted" as, the point is he's an NHL defenseman. You can't lose 3 NHL defenseman and replace them with 3 rookies unless your goal is the #1 overall pick in the draft.

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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Defense isn't a problem, they wouldn't lose value, they are established here, and they will continue to be paid handsomely.

Scuderi has already won and has young children, shouldn't be too difficult to sign him to another long term deal to the tune of what he is already making.

Mitchell doesn't warrant a raise, he is being paid fairly. We blew everyone out of the water and outbid Vancouver to get him. He was impressed and felt good about Lombardi's value of him. I don't think signing him to another 2 year deal would be that difficult either. The rumblings are that that may already be in the works.

In the end, we have no reason to believe either way. There is no reason to believe they won't sign other than to perpetuate your own frustrations and fears with this organization onto them, but things are a lot different in the locker room, when you are 30+ making millions with a family. I don't see how Dean can't convince them to stay. There is no use worrying about it now, that is something for the offseason, not the deadline.
Well, I agree that there's no point worry about it, but you have to consider it now if you're thinking about possibly moving someone like Johnson at the deadline. The fact that they have families is a bad thing for the Kings, IMO. LA Schools suck, some of the worst travel in the NHL, dad's away from home way more often. Plus you're saying that I'm projecting my own fears onto them, I'm not sure there's really any other way to see it.

The Kings have been nothing but perpetual losers since 1967, and barring a miracle I'm not sure that's going to change any time soon.

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Old
02-18-2012, 04:03 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
A couple of points:
1. rosters must be 23 players not 20
2. you are relying heavily on currently untested players to play key roles in 2013 and beyond. I am skeptical that they will rise to the occasion.

But hey, you and AEG/Lombardi may be on the same page.
They don't have to be 23, they just can't be more than 23.


It's not only time to address futility, but also the fact that he has not done a good enough job. Teams should be able to score more goals than the Kings do by accident. This is going to result in Quick asking for a contract over $7M/year, because it's nearly inarguable that Quick is keeping the franchise afloat by himself.


I've given Lombardi a lot of chances, but pretty much every draft pick has underacheived, free agents haven't gone to LA, and the Mike Richards trade - at least after a few months - looks absolutely awful and arguably has set back the franchise, even if Richards has done well. The Penner trade has also been a disaster, even if there wasn't much of a choice in the matter. Some of these problems are players, and the coach(es), but at some point it needs to be the GM's problem.

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02-18-2012, 04:18 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
They don't have to be 23, they just can't be more than 23.


It's not only time to address futility, but also the fact that he has not done a good enough job. Teams should be able to score more goals than the Kings do by accident. This is going to result in Quick asking for a contract over $7M/year, because it's nearly inarguable that Quick is keeping the franchise afloat by himself.


I've given Lombardi a lot of chances, but pretty much every draft pick has underacheived, free agents haven't gone to LA, and the Mike Richards trade - at least after a few months - looks absolutely awful and arguably has set back the franchise, even if Richards has done well. The Penner trade has also been a disaster, even if there wasn't much of a choice in the matter. Some of these problems are players, and the coach(es), but at some point it needs to be the GM's problem.

well if it comes to the Gm choices we have to many EX for my taste.

former 30 goal scorer
former Stanley Cup winner
former star defender
former successfull coaches.
Everythign is former but not present

What Lombardi is doing is going by names not by skill.
He tries to eleminate any risk. And this is leading nowhere

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02-18-2012, 04:22 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
They don't have to be 23, they just can't be more than 23.


It's not only time to address futility, but also the fact that he has not done a good enough job. Teams should be able to score more goals than the Kings do by accident. This is going to result in Quick asking for a contract over $7M/year, because it's nearly inarguable that Quick is keeping the franchise afloat by himself.


I've given Lombardi a lot of chances, but pretty much every draft pick has underacheived, free agents haven't gone to LA, and the Mike Richards trade - at least after a few months - looks absolutely awful and arguably has set back the franchise, even if Richards has done well. The Penner trade has also been a disaster, even if there wasn't much of a choice in the matter. Some of these problems are players, and the coach(es), but at some point it needs to be the GM's problem.
I'll trust you on the 23 or less although that would seem to be an open door to cap manipulation. Capgeek usually (always?) seems to have 23 as the roster size for each team and the cap calculated accordingly.

The rest of your post is spot on. Lombardi has been a disaster for this franchise.

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02-18-2012, 05:55 PM
  #34
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Remember when the Devils had an 18 man roster (or something like that) for a while after getting Kovalchuk?

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Old
02-18-2012, 06:21 PM
  #35
The Judge
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Completely agree here.
It's up to the players and the coaches.

I feel since years we don't have the right coaching system. We don't need
the good uncle from the neighborhood. We need the high skilled sucess coach.

And for the players..... i'm at the point when i think riding the bus a couple of games from Manchester would be perfect for Mr. Kopitar and Mr. Doughty.....

We need something drastic here. This childs birthday party on a ponyfarm has to end.

We would win the Stanley Cup if you could win it with excuses.

Who is not able to succeed or to give in whats nescessary is gone.... priod.

Ask Mr. Fedorov what the Red Wings did to him.
Who simply doesn't want to give everything finds himself in Columbus....
That sends the right signals not this defending in front of the media bla bla

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Old
02-18-2012, 06:48 PM
  #36
moosehead81
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Originally Posted by The Judge View Post
Sorry, I have to disagree. Look at Nashville. THEY ARE BORING!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT - No Kopitars or stars and yet their offense is 13th in the league. Power play 2nd in the league. Why because they play the system well.

30th in the league on offense. Oh yes... it is the players.

There comes a point and time where you have to make players accountable no matter who they are.
I'll grant you some of that but wouldn't you agree that there's little shown by the Kings in the way of offensive creativity exhibited by teams that score more goals than LA? I'm not real familiar with Nashville but it seems to me that Trotz, who's been there forever, plays a defensive system around the strengths of the players he has, while allowing some creativity in the offensive zone. I just don't see that with the Kings; what I see is a system that pretends the red line is still in existence, no quick puck movement or transition out of the defensive zone and a bunch of muckers and grinders playing on the 1st and 2nd lines who, beyond Richards and Kopitar, would likely be on the 3rd or 4th lines of most offensively minded teams in the NHL. The team is just not built for offence and is therefore mired down in a defensive system that essentially causes less in the way of scoring. You can't totally blame the players for that.

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Old
02-18-2012, 07:56 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by moosehead81 View Post
I'll grant you some of that but wouldn't you agree that there's little shown by the Kings in the way of offensive creativity exhibited by teams that score more goals than LA? I'm not real familiar with Nashville but it seems to me that Trotz, who's been there forever, plays a defensive system around the strengths of the players he has, while allowing some creativity in the offensive zone. I just don't see that with the Kings; what I see is a system that pretends the red line is still in existence, no quick puck movement or transition out of the defensive zone and a bunch of muckers and grinders playing on the 1st and 2nd lines who, beyond Richards and Kopitar, would likely be on the 3rd or 4th lines of most offensively minded teams in the NHL. The team is just not built for offence and is therefore mired down in a defensive system that essentially causes less in the way of scoring. You can't totally blame the players for that.
Did you get a chance to read the article? It says right there. Several GMs indicated that the players are not playing the system correctly.

I would probably put more weight on their opinions than anyone else because there's no bias like us... FANS.

The fact that you mentioned that we mostly have grinders... when you have Richards, Brown, Kopitar, Williams, Loktionov, Gagne? compared to Nashville? Really?

We have more offensive forwards than Nashville. And for them to be 13th on offense and 2nd on the power play what other explanations does anyone need? Yes, I blame it on the players. A big part of it.

If you don't know Nashville. Well, Nashville is more of a defensive team than us, structurally speaking.

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