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J Gardiner for B. Schenn

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Old
02-18-2012, 10:58 AM
  #226
The Podium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
It's hard for me to fathom how anybody could watch Gardiner play and say that they don't see him as a first pairing defensemen...I mean everyone's entitled to an opinion, but that's basically saying he'll barely improve at all from where he is now.
Buhp?

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02-18-2012, 10:59 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
It's hard for me to fathom how anybody could watch Gardiner play and say that they don't see him as a first pairing defensemen...I mean everyone's entitled to an opinion, but that's basically saying he'll barely improve at all from where he is now.
That's what I was thinking..

Gardiner may never evolve, but to shoot down the possiblity of him becoming a number 1, mid way through his rookie year - you must either hate the Leafs and are unable to be objective, or just dont understand hockey very well.

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02-18-2012, 11:09 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
That's what I was thinking..

Gardiner may never evolve, but to shoot down the possiblity of him becoming a number 1, mid way through his rookie year - you must either hate the Leafs and are unable to be objective, or just dont understand hockey very well.
That is extrapolating a lot out of a small sampling of games, though. Of course, the offer here isn't for a more established player, so the same skepticism is warranted for Brayden Schenn. There's no guarantee he becomes a first line center.

I'm not entirely sure what the Flyers fans are expecting. No one is going to offer up the Karlssons, Pietrangelos, or even the Fowlers of the league for Schenn; even in a package built around Brayden. Gardiner seems like a good match for what they're looking for.

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02-18-2012, 11:12 AM
  #229
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http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...may-have-to-go

Quote:
VANCOUVER—The issue with Jake Gardiner, as it was 12 months ago, is trying to accurately evaluate his upside.

As in how good this kid may be.

The Leafs had to do that last year when they were browsing through the prospect chart of the Anaheim Ducks and ultimately landed Gardiner along with Joffrey Lupul in exchange for Francois Beauchemin.

Now, as they eye the possibility of a deal with Columbus to try and acquire Rick Nash, again the issue of the 21-year-old blueliner’s ultimate potential is under scrutiny.

And the reality is the Leafs don’t really have an answer.

They’re not exactly sure what they have.

“He’s one of those guys who you watch and you think he’s not trying that hard,” said Leaf head coach Ron Wilson. “Then you get down to ice level and you see how fast he’s going. Then you know you have a special player with special abilities.”

Gardiner hit a rough spot partway through the season, perhaps when he was feeling for the first time the burden of the NHL season, but has taken off again, including a stellar performance Wednesday in Edmonton as the Leafs snapped a four-game losing streak.

“He might be Duncan Keith,” said one insider.
Keep in mind that the Toronto media usually has NOTHING good to say about the Leafs .

Please watch him before you make dumb assessments. His rise has been meteoric, Burke would have to be stoned out of his mind to trade Gardiner for nothing short of overpayment.

First time after a long time the Leafs get a smooth skating defenseman with blistering speed, a guy who can slow or fasten the pace of the game despite being a rookie with tremendous IQ skills. Yeah they're not trading him.

He's definitely on my list of untouchables unless it's a complete overpayment, I'd hope he is viewed like that within the Leafs management.

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02-18-2012, 11:19 AM
  #230
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Flyers don't trade B.Schenn for what they gave up. Value wise the trade is alot more even then most Flyers fans think. How many games have Flyers fans watched Gardiner in? Maybe if they seen him on a night to night basis as we Leafs fans have had the pleasure to this argument might be different. In saying that, I have never been more excited for a Leafs rookie then Gardiner. Kid has looked special since first game I watched him in, and has only improved since then!

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02-18-2012, 11:49 AM
  #231
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no way .. keep Schenn ... we want to keep Gards

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02-18-2012, 12:38 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by sanityplease View Post
The first two guys were being ignorant homers attacking another poster, I was responding to them, they were wrong btw

I have plenty of positive things to say about leafs players. If you don't want peoples reaction on your fanbase's outlandish trade proposals (which most on here are from leafs fans), don't read them.

B. Schenn > Gardiner, btw...
I wasnt being an ignorant homer I was asking you a legitimate quesiton. Can you name a better rookie defenceman. I dont get to watch all other rookie defencemen play so Im going primarily off of stats and limited viewing of each other player. And in terms of stats alone Gardiner is at the top of almost every statistical category. Dont jump on me for no reason.

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02-18-2012, 12:45 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Michael Gary Scott View Post
I wasnt being an ignorant homer I was asking you a legitimate quesiton. Can you name a better rookie defenceman. I dont get to watch all other rookie defencemen play so Im going primarily off of stats and limited viewing of each other player. And in terms of stats alone Gardiner is at the top of almost every statistical category. Dont jump on me for no reason.
You cheer for the Leafs, get used to it.

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02-18-2012, 12:50 PM
  #234
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Absurd how overrated gardiner is becoming. Schenn is half a year removed from being the centrepiece in a deal for mike richards, for chrissakes.

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02-18-2012, 12:53 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
Absurd how overrated gardiner is becoming. Schenn is half a year removed from being the centrepiece in a deal for mike richards, for chrissakes.
It's amazing what Gardiner has done so far. He's only overrated to people who haven't seen him play that much.

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02-18-2012, 12:54 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
Absurd how overrated gardiner is becoming. Schenn is half a year removed from being the centrepiece in a deal for mike richards, for chrissakes.
That isn't how players are evaluated.

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02-18-2012, 12:56 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
Absurd how overrated gardiner is becoming. Schenn is half a year removed from being the centrepiece in a deal for mike richards, for chrissakes.
Since Schenn was the centre piece in the Richards trade, that clearly makes him better than Gardiner

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Old
02-18-2012, 12:59 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Gary Scott View Post
I wasnt being an ignorant homer I was asking you a legitimate quesiton. Can you name a better rookie defenceman. I dont get to watch all other rookie defencemen play so Im going primarily off of stats and limited viewing of each other player. And in terms of stats alone Gardiner is at the top of almost every statistical category. Dont jump on me for no reason.
Adam Larsson has been better when he's been healthy. I'd also take both rookie Nashville defenders (Blum and Ellis) over Gardiner.

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02-18-2012, 01:01 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
Absurd how overrated gardiner is becoming. Schenn is half a year removed from being the centrepiece in a deal for mike richards, for chrissakes.
Gardiner was the centerpiece in the package for Beauchemin. I don't see how either of those trades are relevant to this proposal.

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02-18-2012, 01:08 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Adam Larsson has been better when he's been healthy. I'd also take both rookie Nashville defenders (Blum and Ellis) over Gardiner.
I think that's kind of funny unless you think that Blum and Ellis will develop faster than Gardiner.

Gardiner is putting up points and playing better defence than both Blum and Ellis. In fact Ellis isn't expected to be that good defensively. I think Jake can play some great defence with that effortless stride and great stick, while having an advantage in size over Ellis.

Blum is a -14 on Nashville, while Gardiner is +8 on the Leafs. There a huge difference in the systems both teams play and the obvious discrepancy in goaltending. Kind of a red flag for Blum but he does have good upside. Jake is a year younger as well.

I agree with Larsson though.


Last edited by IBLeaf*: 02-18-2012 at 01:28 PM. Reason: grammar
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02-18-2012, 01:23 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by jpallday View Post
I think that's kind of funny unless you think that Blum and Ellis will develop faster than Gardiner.

Gardiner is putting up points and playing better defence than both Blum and Ellis. In fact Ellis isn't expected to be that good defensively. I think Jake can play some great defence with that effortless stride and great stick, while having an advantage in size over Ellis.

Blum is a -14 on Nashville, while Gardiner is +8 on the Leafs. There a huge difference in the systems both teams play and the obviously discrepancy in goaltending. Kind of a red flag for Blum but he does have good upside. Jake is a year younger though.

I agree with Larsson though.
Was about to edit Blum for Josi.

Josi I'd take over Gardiner, why? Since he's getting top 4 minutes on a Nashville team that requires high standard of playing defense.

You'd be surprised on how well Ellis has played at both ends of the rink. This is a player who has arguably the most illustrious Junior in a long time and the scary thing is that he's in transition very well with the NHL game.

I suggest you read this article about him:

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...bTZ-d5_k_EzDwQ

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02-18-2012, 01:31 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Was about to edit Blum for Josi.

Josi I'd take over Gardiner, why? Since he's getting top 4 minutes on a Nashville team that requires high standard of playing defense.

You'd be surprised on how well Ellis has played at both ends of the rink. This is a player who has arguably the most illustrious Junior in a long time and the scary thing is that he's in transition very well with the NHL game.

I suggest you read this article about him:

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...bTZ-d5_k_EzDwQ
Thanks for the article. It's good to see that he's doing well.

I still think that Gardiner and Ellis have similar tools. Both are fast and have good offensive instincts. I think Ellis has the better shot though. However Jake has more size on Ellis, and I still think Ryan has to prove that he can play consistently in the league. I'm not saying that Jake has done that yet, but given their similar tools, I'd take the guy with more size and with speed to burn.

Josi has been a minus in the top 4 in Nashville as well. I'm too lazy to look up Corsi stats but I would be hard pressed to find a defencemen at Jake's age that I'd rather have. He's first in points and assists as a rookie defenceman and I'm confident that his defence will improve immensely as he fills out his frame.

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02-18-2012, 01:32 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Was about to edit Blum for Josi.

Josi I'd take over Gardiner, why? Since he's getting top 4 minutes on a Nashville team that requires high standard of playing defense.

You'd be surprised on how well Ellis has played at both ends of the rink. This is a player who has arguably the most illustrious Junior in a long time and the scary thing is that he's in transition very well with the NHL game.

I suggest you read this article about him:

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...bTZ-d5_k_EzDwQ
Ellis i give you, very talented player who is impressing on both sides of the puck . Not sure i would take him over gardiner at this point, but i can respect that others would.

Josi i dont see. Again far worse +/- playing on how good of a defence and in front of who? Rinne. I get that +/- isnt the be all and end all, but ive watched nashville a few times this season and i am not impressed by josi. He has gone 11 games without a point now as well correct?

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02-18-2012, 02:43 PM
  #244
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It's certainly not all about statistics. I think Ellis will be substantially better as he gets more experience in the NHL. If you look at the player's previous pedigree and when you hear the praise from teammates, coaches and other team players, you know he's going to be a great player. Josi and Gardiner are close, but again, it's not about statistics. If Josi was on a weaker blue line like the Leafs, he'd probably get more ice time to display his skills. Lane Lambert, Admirals coach said he was the most talented player he's ever coached. When Weber was injured, Josi took the role as top pairing guy with Suter. I have a strong feeling that one of Suter/Weber are gone by next year and this is where Josi will get recognized as a special talent.

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02-18-2012, 03:13 PM
  #245
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Gardiner is a stud, Schenn is a stud. both teams will keep their studs.. so move on.. Leafs don't want to trade gardiner for schenn, and flyers don't want to trade schenn for Gardiner... now move on.. sheesh..

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