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Your face when you realize David Desharnais has more assists than...

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Old
02-18-2012, 05:45 PM
  #101
Protest the Hero
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Pace includes the ups and downs of a season though, 59 points is nothing to scoff at for an undrafted centreman playing in his first full season. I think it's especially nice that most of his points have come in the second half of the season when teams have caught on.

He plays like a big centreman, meaning he takes the puck to the net when there's an opening. He can't beat defencemen to the outside, but he takes it down low and protects the puck remarkably well for a 5'6" guy, his passing is great as well obviously.

I'd be very happy if he becomes an annual 60 point centreman.

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02-18-2012, 05:49 PM
  #102
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agreed , but we all now the big problem here folks

he comes back has another 40-50 point season , and voila this retarded team will give him a 4 year 15 mil contract ..

thats the issue here , they have no fken clue or have any vision on how to move forward or put a team on the ice

from Markov`s stupid contract , to overpaying for Gio and Cammy , this management team has no clue how to run a franchise

you add Bourque , finally a big body and he rarely sees the pp

Darche is on the top 6 with Pleks ...wtf is going on here

You drafted Leblanc to be a 2 center at some point , you have a big 2 way Eller
who is better than DD down the road . Eller can play on any team in this league as a worst case # 3 center , DD cant play on 20+ teams in this league given his limitations , but we cant keep him for the next 4 years in this role if you want to move forward
i bet the hab's equipment trainer's dog has more hockey knowledge than u do bud.

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02-18-2012, 06:20 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
He's on pace for 59 not 65.

You can't just take a good stretch and embilish his stats XD
Then lets say gomez will have 20 goals at the end of the season since he scored 2 in 4 games...
Yeah, except it's not the same thing at all.

If you create a moving sample of 20 games, the first 20 games he had a 0.6ppg pace, then in the next 20 games, he had a pace of about 0.88, and now it's a pace of about 0.9-0.1. This trend is only one way, and is supported by the logic that he's a good player who's improving in the league.

Simply taking his current point total, and dividing it by the number of games that it took him to get there offers no information on how he got there, what he's been playing like most recently, and what's likely to happen in the future.

For him to be on pace for 59, he'd actually have to play worse than he's been playing for close to a majority of the season. So, it's not a very good model, now is it?

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02-18-2012, 06:36 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Yeah, except it's not the same thing at all.

If you create a moving sample of 20 games, the first 20 games he had a 0.6ppg pace, then in the next 20 games, he had a pace of about 0.88, and now it's a pace of about 0.9-0.1. This trend is only one way, and is supported by the logic that he's a good player who's improving in the league.

Simply taking his current point total, and dividing it by the number of games that it took him to get there offers no information on how he got there, what he's been playing like most recently, and what's likely to happen in the future.

For him to be on pace for 59, he'd actually have to play worse than he's been playing for close to a majority of the season. So, it's not a very good model, now is it?

Considering he's not a Elite player (I.E malkin/Crosby (who else ?))

He's a Player that has streaks. So now what you did is, barely just took is good streak and by this you try to embelish is stats... Anyway its hockey it's not maths. Theres a possiblity that he finishes with 100 goals. And there is a possibility that he could be shutout for all the rest of the season.

THUS I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE NOT

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02-18-2012, 06:43 PM
  #105
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Still think Eller is better and he is being wasted on our 3rd line.

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02-18-2012, 06:47 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Considering he's not a Elite player (I.E malkin/Crosby (who else ?))

He's a Player that has streaks. So now what you did is, barely just took is good streak and by this you try to embelish is stats... Anyway its hockey it's not maths. Theres a possiblity that he finishes with 100 goals. And there is a possibility that he could be shutout for all the rest of the season.

THUS I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE NOT

I am really good at arguing
No, what I did was establish a trend. The trend supports the argument that he's been playing consistently better than his "pace"(really, just a mean average because that's about all people can remember from math class) for a long time.

There's little if anything to indicate that he's playing "above his head" right now.

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02-18-2012, 06:54 PM
  #107
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And everyone forgets that Desharnais best asset is on the PP. So just imagine the amount of points he would have had right now if Markov wouldn't have been injured.

The kid hasn't reached is upside yet people.

And no Eller is not better, or as good, or even close to be as good as Desharnais. (And I really like Eller)

Edit: Btw guys, there's not such thing as a perfect team. You don't need a 90 pts big center to win a cup. DD, Plekanec and Eller are a fine trio of center, and yes we could win a cup with those guys...if we get better wingers and dmen.


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02-18-2012, 07:01 PM
  #108
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I remember Lebeau well and I think DD is a much better player. DD doesn't have good vision & hands. He has great vision & hands . His passing is elite. His skating is very good but not great.

Right now I think he needs to improve his defensive coverage and his shot. If does that he will be an elite 2nd centre.
Jesus, this is not Gretzky....this is Desharnais. MUCH better than Lebeau?? Are you kidding me? Talk about massive over valuation..... don't put your money in the stock market, you will go broke in minutes....

Looking forward to brining this comment back in a year or so....


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Old
02-18-2012, 07:02 PM
  #109
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i bet the hab's equipment trainer's dog has more hockey knowledge than u do bud.
Why do you talk to him this way? Grow up will you. If you do not share his opinion, say something intelligent back, not this crap......

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02-18-2012, 07:04 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
And everyone forgets that Desharnais best asset is on the PP. So just imagine the amount of points he would have had right now if Markov wouldn't have been injured.

The kid hasn't reached is upside yet people.

And no Eller is not better, or as good, or even close to be as good as Desharnais. (And I really like Eller)
U see... This does not need to happen. The big Ol' bashing a player to get the other one more credit.

Eller is only 22. While DD is 25. And the gap in between is not one of 3 years.
At this point, If Eller was consistent he'd be our 1st C. Hope he will be.. Let's see in two years what will be our situation at the center.

(Looks to be really good as DD-Eller-Plek will all be in their prime.)

That's nice!

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02-18-2012, 07:04 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
And everyone forgets that Desharnais best asset is on the PP. So just imagine the amount of points he would have had right now if Markov wouldn't have been injured.

The kid hasn't reached is upside yet people.

And no Eller is not better, or as good, or even close to be as good as Desharnais. (And I really like Eller)

Edit: Btw guys, there's not such thing as a perfect team. You don't need a 90 pts big center to win a cup. DD, Plekanec and Eller are a fine trio of center, and yes we could win a cup with those guys...if we get better wingers and dmen.
Unreal....


AND if we had a real #1 center, DD would be on the 3rd line and get second line duties on the PP.....so what is your point? What's with this MMOV? (Montreal Massive Over Valuation)

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02-18-2012, 07:14 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Unreal....


AND if we had a real #1 center, DD would be on the 3rd line and get second line duties on the PP.....so what is your point? What's with this MMOV? (Montreal Massive Over Valuation)
Desharnais isn't in the position he's in now because we "don't have a #1 center." At the beginning of the season, most people had him playing 3rd line winger with Ak and Eller. Gomez was injured, allowing Desharnais to play center, and the rest, as they say, is history.

He had an opportunity, and really has made the most of it. To the point where now, he's proven to us that he is a real asset.

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02-18-2012, 07:40 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Desharnais isn't in the position he's in now because we "don't have a #1 center." At the beginning of the season, most people had him playing 3rd line winger with Ak and Eller. Gomez was injured, allowing Desharnais to play center, and the rest, as they say, is history.

He had an opportunity, and really has made the most of it. To the point where now, he's proven to us that he is a real asset.
Again, because we do not have a real #1......Gomez, Eller, PLek and DD are good but none of them are #1 center on a good team......Again, the comparison to Lebeau is good here......Talented, good production but not a #1 Center.....There are so many intangibles you want from your #1 Center and some of those intangibles require size and excellent skating....both attributes that he does not possess....

Dont do DD the injustice of putting on him a label that he cannot carry......admire him for what he is, don't make him what he is not....

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02-18-2012, 07:42 PM
  #114
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yes and the midget is going to win the league MVP

like anyone will take him over Staal , Towes , etc

we are praising a filler on a crap team
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Sorry but he is the equivalent of Stefane Lebeau in the late 80's, early 90's. On a good team, he may squeak in as the 2nd line center, at best. Do not even attempt to compare him to Toews, Stall, Lecavalier, etc. He is not in that class at all.

If we had a true #1 center, Desharnais would not have the opportunities he has now.....his numbers are truly reflective of our lack of a true #1 line.... I am happy he is there to help this year, but to try to make him in the same class as the other players you mentioned is truly idiotic....and another case of over valuation of a player....
Some of the arguments in this thread are just plain stupid. Basically what you're saying is "If we had a #1 center, Desharnais would not be playing like a #1 center" What kind of ****ing retarded argument is that?

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02-18-2012, 07:44 PM
  #115
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Some of the arguments in this thread are just plain stupid. Basically what you're saying is "If we had a #1 center, Desharnais would not be playing like a #1 center" What kind of ****ing retarded argument is that?
Clearly reading is not your strong point.....read again before making ill-advised comments....

DD is a #1 Center by default (we do not have a REAL #1 center) on a bad team near the bottom of the pack in the standings......enough said!

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Old
02-18-2012, 07:45 PM
  #116
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I love this whole "zomg! his stats are inflated because of Cole and Pacioretty!!$!!$."

A few things;

1) Almost every good centre in the league plays with great players.
2) Desharnais' stats would be "inflated" more if Patches or Cole scored even a fraction of the plays he set-ups.
3) His wingers love playing with him - that's telling enough.
4) He's in the top-20 centres for scoring and #30 in PPG, which for a first full year is incredible.
5) How come it's Pacioretty and Cole that inflate Desharnais' stats, but he has no impact on their stats? Some of you make it sound like if Cole/Pacioretty were playing with Plekanec, they'd have 60-points not having to "wait around" for the "slug" that is Desharnais.

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02-18-2012, 07:50 PM
  #117
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I love this whole "zomg! his stats are inflated because of Cole and Pacioretty!!$!!$."

A few things;

1) Almost every good centre in the league plays with great players.
2) Desharnais' stats would be "inflated" more if Patches or Cole scored even a fraction of the plays he set-ups.
3) His wingers love playing with him - that's telling enough.
4) He's in the top-20 centres for scoring and #30 in PPG, which for a first full year is incredible.
5) How come it's Pacioretty and Cole that inflate Desharnais' stats, but he has no impact on their stats? Some of you make it sound like if Cole/Pacioretty were playing with Plekanec, they'd have 60-points not having to "wait around" for the "slug" that is Desharnais.
Wouldn't you if your alternative was Eller, Gomez or Plek on a bad year??

Let's not canonize DD before he actually does it 2 or 3 seasons in a row, shall we? Its not that I dont like DD, I actually like him.....but between liking him and making him a star like some on here are trying to do, there is a major difference......He is in that role and getting points because we are a bad team that does not have a real #1 center. If we had say.....Malkin (just for discussion sake) as a real #1, then DD would hardly ever play 1 line PP and would probably be on the 3rd line most of the time....

With a real #1 center (like Stall as an example), I can see both Cole and MaxPac get increadible numbers......beyond the good season they are currently enjoying (and yet we are not a playoff contender).....


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Old
02-18-2012, 07:55 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Wouldn't you if your alternative was Eller, Gomez or Plek on a bad year??

Let's not canonize DD before he actually does it 2 or 3 seasons in a row, shall we?
Considering Pacioretty has stated Desharnais is the best player he's ever played with is pretty telling considering he's played with Koivu, Kovalev, and others.

And just so I don't quote two of your posts - the difference between Lebeau and Desharnais? Simple. Desharnais is going to be a PPG player a lot longer than Lebeau was.

PS. If we had Malkin, we wouldn't really be arguing about anything right now because we'd be partying for the playoffs!

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02-18-2012, 07:59 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Considering Pacioretty has stated Desharnais is the best player he's ever played with is pretty telling considering he's played with Koivu, Kovalev, and others.

And just so I don't quote two of your posts - the difference between Lebeau and Desharnais? Simple. Desharnais is going to be a PPG player a lot longer than Lebeau was.
MaxPac had no more than a coffee cup with Koivu 1n 2008-2009 and he was clearly not ready for the NHL then.....

As for the PPG player....Only for the reason that Lebeau played with good players and great #1 center on his team which cut into his icetime and PP time.....Lebeau won a Stanley Cup as a #2 center of a good team.......DD is having a decent season on a near last place team with no real #1 center..... Once we have a real #1 center (Draft or trade?) it will be back to 3rd line for DD with second line PP.....

As for partying with Malkin, I am down with it!

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02-18-2012, 08:06 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
MaxPac had no more than a coffee cup with Koivu 1n 2008-2009 and he was clearly not ready for the NHL then.....

As for the PPG player....Only for the reason that Lebeau played with good players and great #1 center on his team which cut into his icetime and PP time.....Lebeau won a Stanley Cup as a #2 center of a good team.......DD is having a decent season on a near last place team with no real #1 center..... Once we have a real #1 center (Draft or trade?) it will be back to 3rd line for DD with second line PP.....
This 'Holy Grail' of C-men might not come the Habs' way for a while still. You've been comparing DD to Lebeau non-stop for seven hours now. Enjoy the next 2-5 years

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02-18-2012, 08:07 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Considering Pacioretty has stated Desharnais is the best player he's ever played with is pretty telling considering he's played with Koivu, Kovalev, and others.

And just so I don't quote two of your posts - the difference between Lebeau and Desharnais? Simple. Desharnais is going to be a PPG player a lot longer than Lebeau was.

PS. If we had Malkin, we wouldn't really be arguing about anything right now because we'd be partying for the playoffs!
Wooow . Lets settle down a bit with the PPG... Like the other poster said let's not give DD what he doesnt have. (Not impossible IMO but still...)
And do you really think DD is better than Plekanec, Koivu, Kovalev and others?

I think its more because they are best friend and they have great chemistry.

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02-18-2012, 08:11 PM
  #122
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This 'Holy Grail' of C-men might not come the Habs' way for a while still. You've been comparing DD to Lebeau non-stop for seven hours now. Enjoy the next 2-5 years
Even without a #1 Center, the notion that Desharnais is a PPG player is ludicrous....only in Montreal or on a bad team would we make that statement for a player that has not yet played a full season.......you guys are too funny.....and yet, so predictable.....in a year, you will run him out of Montreal because he is a shrimp......Bi Polar MTL fans at its best....

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02-18-2012, 08:11 PM
  #123
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Again, because we do not have a real #1......Gomez, Eller, PLek and DD are good but none of them are #1 center on a good team......Again, the comparison to Lebeau is good here......Talented, good production but not a #1 Center.....There are so many intangibles you want from your #1 Center and some of those intangibles require size and excellent skating....both attributes that he does not possess....

Dont do DD the injustice of putting on him a label that he cannot carry......admire him for what he is, don't make him what he is not....
Neither size, nor skating is an "intangible." It's very tangible. Your center is x feet y inches tall and can skate z kph with zeta m/s^2 acceleration.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. It was because of the injury that he got the opportunity. If he were on Anaheim and Getzlaf were injured, he'd have had the same opportunity.

The plus side is that we've learned just how capable and creative he really is, something that we probably wouldn't have seen had he not been given the opportunity. He's shown himself to be one of the best players on the team.

Going forward, I don't want him to be our #1 center, unless of course he continues this upward trend in development, however, he's clearly a capable number two, or top 6 playmaking winger.

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02-18-2012, 08:14 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Even without a #1 Center, the notion that Desharnais is a PPG player is ludicrous....
Last year that notion was ridiculous, and outlandish...a lot's happened since then. I think we should wait and see what happens.

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02-18-2012, 08:16 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Neither size, nor skating is an "intangible." It's very tangible. Your center is x feet y inches tall and can skate z kph with zeta m/s^2 acceleration.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. It was because of the injury that he got the opportunity. If he were on Anaheim and Getzlaf were injured, he'd have had the same opportunity.

The plus side is that we've learned just how capable and creative he really is, something that we probably wouldn't have seen had he not been given the opportunity. He's shown himself to be one of the best players on the team.

Going forward, I don't want him to be our #1 center, unless of course he continues this upward trend in development, however, he's clearly a capable number two, or top 6 playmaking winger.
Size and speed are both intangibles....they both of those intangibles contribute to a great offensive play yet neither has a performance indicator such as goals or points that shows up in score of the game......saying that you had 5 hits is meaningless if the next guy has 2 hits but both contributed directly to goals (hit a D in front of the Goalies while blinding the G at the same time, as an example).....

and I like DD, dont get me wrong, but I do not agree with outrageous statements made on this board (ex. Point per game player). I think he will make a great third line center that will bring us a bit of everything....in time....

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