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Hal Gill to Nashville. Geoffrion, Slaney, and 2012 2nd to Montreal.

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Old
02-18-2012, 06:58 PM
  #126
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Read about 8 pages of the thread in the trade forum and the first few here. Think it's a great trade for both teams; feel like those saying it equates to overpayment are overestimating Geoffrion's ability. To me, his upside is an ok 3rd line center (plays like he did last year, all the time); that said, he could easily wind up not even becoming a roster player.

When I first read the headlines, I translated it as a 2nd for Gill.

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02-18-2012, 08:02 PM
  #127
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exactly... Poile almost always adds. how aggressive he is is predicated by our situation.

how people can honestly characterize Poile as a "do nothing" GM is beyond my understanding..
I've said for years that the only time Poile is likely to make a significant move is at the trade deadline. Unfortunately this is when prices are usually the highest. Outside of the deadline, Poile is the most complacent GM in the league, there's very little doubt in my mind on that, although you can't really measure it.

Poile's deadline deals are usually for future draft picks (he rarely trades actual prospects). So having Geoferrion in the deal is quite out of the norm for Poile. Forsberg is the only other deal I can remember where we included an actual real name in a deadline deal, and that deal was Leipolid's deal. Just an observation.

I like Gill but haven't really seen him play in 2 years. If he still has something left in the tank, I think it's a good deal assume Blake tops out as a 3rd/4th liner at best.

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02-18-2012, 08:33 PM
  #128
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So signing Arnott, Dumont and Kariya when they were UFA's were nothing moves?

By the way, when you draft and develop players the way we do, there aren't a ton of holes to fill so he doesn't have to be as active in free agency as other GM's. Just something to ponder.

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02-18-2012, 08:35 PM
  #129
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Cue the continued hype surrounding Geoffrion heading to Montreal...

In his debut with Hamilton tonight (AHL affiliate of Montreal), Geoffrion had a game-high 8 shots on goal, scored a goal, and added an assist to wrap up his night. Blake is wearing #51 for Hamilton...

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02-18-2012, 08:39 PM
  #130
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Cue the continued hype surrounding Geoffrion heading to Montreal...

In his debut with Hamilton tonight (AHL affiliate of Montreal), Geoffrion had a game-high 8 shots on goal, scored a goal, and added an assist to wrap up his night. Blake is wearing #51 for Hamilton...
Not all that impressive honestly.

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02-18-2012, 09:01 PM
  #131
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Cue the continued hype surrounding Geoffrion heading to Montreal...

In his debut with Hamilton tonight (AHL affiliate of Montreal), Geoffrion had a game-high 8 shots on goal, scored a goal, and added an assist to wrap up his night. Blake is wearing #51 for Hamilton...
and I really don't mind if he ends up finding his game and making it as a Hab. In fact, I really hope he does, because it is still going to be a boon to Nashville to have a local boy make it in the bigs.

but does anyone here honestly think he was going to come back and wind up in our top 6? or even our top 9?

and if all he was going to be was a 4th line grinder, beyond the local boy aspect, thats entirely replaceable

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02-18-2012, 09:22 PM
  #132
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I still maintain that if Blake was still in the NHL and playing decently that we wouldn't have traded him short of overpayment. The marketing potential is just too huge. But you can't market someone who is in the AHL with no hope of getting recalled any time soon, so he became expendable. Too many players passed him.

I'm excited for him honestly. I hope this change of scenery wakes him up and he bounces back to live up to his name.

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02-19-2012, 07:23 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
and I really don't mind if he ends up finding his game and making it as a Hab. In fact, I really hope he does, because it is still going to be a boon to Nashville to have a local boy make it in the bigs.

but does anyone here honestly think he was going to come back and wind up in our top 6? or even our top 9?

and if all he was going to be was a 4th line grinder, beyond the local boy aspect, thats entirely replaceable

Most of the habs fans agree with this, hopfully he can stick in the bottom 6 somewhere but the main piece of this deal for the habs was the pick IMO.



Also, Good luck to Hal tonight in his debut with the Preds.

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02-19-2012, 07:32 AM
  #134
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Most of the habs fans agree with this, hopfully he can stick in the bottom 6 somewhere but the main piece of this deal for the habs was the pick IMO.



Also, Good luck to Hal tonight in his debut with the Preds.
Yeah good luck to the big guy! He is a class act, hopes he does well with you guys.

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02-19-2012, 08:17 AM
  #135
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I think you're confusing what you have wanted Poile to do in the past with what he says he's going to do.

He has said the same thing for many years... he wants to improve the team and he'll make the best deal possible without paying too much.

Most of us have wanted him to be more aggressive at the trade deadline. We may not like it, but he does what he says he's going to do. He is always very careful with how he frames his intentions.

I may get my hand smacked for saying this, but... someone aspiring to a career in broadcast journalism should be careful not to confuse a GM's stated position with with his/her own position.
Not at all. I can certainly respect your position on that, however, past history and when I worked with people who were within the Predators organization (that I still keep in touch with I might add) have told me certain things about Poile's deadlines, I find a serious amount of discrepancy between what Poile tries to do and what Poile actually does. Now part of that is the price, part of that is him trying to find the absolute perfect piece. While that isn't a bad thing, and this is conjecture on my part, I think he tries to hard to make the absolute PERFECT deal rather than settling for a good deal and taking some slightly more risky maneuvers. Again, this conjecture on my part based on the things I have heard from other people who are much closer to him than I am, including one of our professional scouts.

For example, a couple years back the 08-09 campaign when Poile didn't acquire a single piece at the deadline, the main reason for that was his desire to acquire Scottie Upshall from Philly. While that wasn't his first plan necessarily, Philly had offered him at a pretty reasonable price earlier in the week and Poile said he would think about it. On trade deadline day, Poile had his fingers in a couple of pies but was quickly outbid. So he knew (or thought) he still had the ability to land Upshall for a third round pick + an unnamed prospect. As time finally winded down, Poile made the call to Philly, thinking they had a done deal but found out he had been outbid at the last moment for Upshall by PHX Carcillo being the return. With no time remaining to work out a deal, we had to stand pat.

Now, let me be the first to say that I would've much rather had a 3rd round pick and a prospect than Carcillo, but I guess Philly didn't. I also don't think Scottie Upshall was the answer for our then offensive woes, but he would've made a nice addition.

Another example of this is a couple years back, Poile was hard after Hartnell but failed to pony up just a little more in order to get him.

Looking over Poile's trade record, it is easy to see that he generally buys low and hopes to catch lightning in a bottle. Sometimes he does (Hlavac) sometimes he doesn't (Witt). He takes very few risks as far as trying to get above and beyond the hump and instead just tries to squeeze out enough to get us on top of the hill. Part of that is how the team is doing, in the past we have never truly been contenders until the 06-07 season. Last years addition of Fisher was a pretty stellar move as we landed one of the best fish (no pun intended) on the market, as well as a "safe" guy for the organizations identity.

Poile is a damn good GM. In fact, I would argue he is probably one of the best, if not the best GM in the league. That doesn't mean he doesn't have his flaws. He is extremely personable the couple of times I have talked to him, the players seem to like him as well and I hear he is a good guy to work with. He is extremely loyal to his players, sometimes to a serious fault, but loyalty is also a really good thing too because your players will respect you in return. We have a great organization and yes I maybe a little more vocal about trying to win now, mostly because I fear without winning now Weber and Suter are gone, but that doesn't mean I don't respect Poile.

I really like the move for Gill and I hope Poile makes another move as he has said for a forward.

Lastly, even as a professional writer now for a hockey club (I feel I can say that now that I am a full time employee) that doesn't mean you lose all your emotion for the game and maybe view things in a different way than other fans view things. Maybe I do project me feelings a little as far as what I think Poile means by "get scoring help" every deadline, but then perhaps our definitions of scoring help are somewhat different. Poile has certainly made some interesting moves over the past year or so, some I like (Arnott) some I don't like (Obie) but that is part of it. Just because I work in a press box doesn't mean I have to completely disconnect myself from the emotions of the game. While I certainly do during the game, after the game I let myself enjoy the pleasures of being a fan and an audience member. I'll give you an example since I am in a good mood this morning. Our coach at the college has a 2 GA policy. If one of our goalies gives up 2+ goals, they are benched the next game regardless of how those goals were scored. The 2 GA rule was even applied to our current starting netminder who went from Dec to Feb without giving up more than 1 goal a game for I think it was 7 straight games. The 8th game, he gives up two goals neither of them his fault (one deflection and one defensive clearing attempt that landed right on a guys stick in the slot, wired stick side high from maybe 8 feet away) and was benched the next game. Madness! So yes, maybe there is a bit of projection, but as supporter and fan of a franchise, its hard not to do that from time to time. Again, Poile is a great GM and I feel like we are lucky to have him, but that doesn't mean he doesn't make mistakes as well.

I hope somebody reads this even though it is like a novel long and I have a terrible hangover from kicking Notre Dame's ass last night.


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02-19-2012, 08:34 AM
  #136
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Bam Bam and the Nashville system

Given that the Predators play a system that relies heavily on the forecheck, in our system you'd better be able to do it well, or have some other exceptional ability that compensates for not being great at it (e.g. Hornquist in front of the net), I expect that Blake is going to be better served playing in another system. Blake has fair straight line speed, but i never got the impression that he was shifty enough on his skates to be an excellent forechecker. I thought he had pretty decent passing ability and some scoring skill. He may not get back to the NHL, but he'll have a better chance in systems that rely on spread and passing like the red wings or that trap more. Given that, it's probably an OK move for both sides.

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02-19-2012, 08:52 AM
  #137
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Given that the Predators play a system that relies heavily on the forecheck, in our system you'd better be able to do it well, or have some other exceptional ability that compensates for not being great at it (e.g. Hornquist in front of the net), I expect that Blake is going to be better served playing in another system. Blake has fair straight line speed, but i never got the impression that he was shifty enough on his skates to be an excellent forechecker. I thought he had pretty decent passing ability and some scoring skill. He may not get back to the NHL, but he'll have a better chance in systems that rely on spread and passing like the red wings or that trap more. Given that, it's probably an OK move for both sides.
The Admirals play a similar style. Your statements match my observations of Blake.

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02-19-2012, 10:29 AM
  #138
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Not at all. I can certainly respect your position on that, however, past history and when I worked with people who were within the Predators organization (that I still keep in touch with I might add) have told me certain things about Poile's deadlines, I find a serious amount of discrepancy between what Poile tries to do and what Poile actually does. Now part of that is the price, part of that is him trying to find the absolute perfect piece. While that isn't a bad thing, and this is conjecture on my part, I think he tries to hard to make the absolute PERFECT deal rather than settling for a good deal and taking some slightly more risky maneuvers. Again, this conjecture on my part based on the things I have heard from other people who are much closer to him than I am, including one of our professional scouts.

For example, a couple years back the 08-09 campaign when Poile didn't acquire a single piece at the deadline, the main reason for that was his desire to acquire Scottie Upshall from Philly. While that wasn't his first plan necessarily, Philly had offered him at a pretty reasonable price earlier in the week and Poile said he would think about it. On trade deadline day, Poile had his fingers in a couple of pies but was quickly outbid. So he knew (or thought) he still had the ability to land Upshall for a third round pick + an unnamed prospect. As time finally winded down, Poile made the call to Philly, thinking they had a done deal but found out he had been outbid at the last moment for Upshall by PHX Carcillo being the return. With no time remaining to work out a deal, we had to stand pat.

Now, let me be the first to say that I would've much rather had a 3rd round pick and a prospect than Carcillo, but I guess Philly didn't. I also don't think Scottie Upshall was the answer for our then offensive woes, but he would've made a nice addition.

Another example of this is a couple years back, Poile was hard after Hartnell but failed to pony up just a little more in order to get him.

Looking over Poile's trade record, it is easy to see that he generally buys low and hopes to catch lightning in a bottle. Sometimes he does (Hlavac) sometimes he doesn't (Witt). He takes very few risks as far as trying to get above and beyond the hump and instead just tries to squeeze out enough to get us on top of the hill. Part of that is how the team is doing, in the past we have never truly been contenders until the 06-07 season. Last years addition of Fisher was a pretty stellar move as we landed one of the best fish (no pun intended) on the market, as well as a "safe" guy for the organizations identity.

Poile is a damn good GM. In fact, I would argue he is probably one of the best, if not the best GM in the league. That doesn't mean he doesn't have his flaws. He is extremely personable the couple of times I have talked to him, the players seem to like him as well and I hear he is a good guy to work with. He is extremely loyal to his players, sometimes to a serious fault, but loyalty is also a really good thing too because your players will respect you in return. We have a great organization and yes I maybe a little more vocal about trying to win now, mostly because I fear without winning now Weber and Suter are gone, but that doesn't mean I don't respect Poile.

I really like the move for Gill and I hope Poile makes another move as he has said for a forward.

Lastly, even as a professional writer now for a hockey club (I feel I can say that now that I am a full time employee) that doesn't mean you lose all your emotion for the game and maybe view things in a different way than other fans view things. Maybe I do project me feelings a little as far as what I think Poile means by "get scoring help" every deadline, but then perhaps our definitions of scoring help are somewhat different. Poile has certainly made some interesting moves over the past year or so, some I like (Arnott) some I don't like (Obie) but that is part of it. Just because I work in a press box doesn't mean I have to completely disconnect myself from the emotions of the game. While I certainly do during the game, after the game I let myself enjoy the pleasures of being a fan and an audience member. I'll give you an example since I am in a good mood this morning. Our coach at the college has a 2 GA policy. If one of our goalies gives up 2+ goals, they are benched the next game regardless of how those goals were scored. The 2 GA rule was even applied to our current starting netminder who went from Dec to Feb without giving up more than 1 goal a game for I think it was 7 straight games. The 8th game, he gives up two goals neither of them his fault (one deflection and one defensive clearing attempt that landed right on a guys stick in the slot, wired stick side high from maybe 8 feet away) and was benched the next game. Madness! So yes, maybe there is a bit of projection, but as supporter and fan of a franchise, its hard not to do that from time to time. Again, Poile is a great GM and I feel like we are lucky to have him, but that doesn't mean he doesn't make mistakes as well.

I hope somebody reads this even though it is like a novel long and I have a terrible hangover from kicking Notre Dame's ass last night.
Excellent post. I think there is a lot of truth in here. Suter & Weber have lived the cautiousness of DP and that is why they have made the stand that they have. They are probably the only 2 that could have done so as I didn't see Pekka having the personality to do so and was the logical one to sign first. If Suter & Weber didn't care about this organization and winning and pushing the Preds to reach the Cup Finals and be all that it could be, they would have both just remained quiet and played out their obligations and moved on.
They are holding DP's feet to the fire in the only way they can (eventhough people would make the valid point that they are hindering DP's ability to achieve those goals by not signing the longterm contract).
I just can't blame them for wanting to see actions and not just promises.

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02-19-2012, 01:50 PM
  #139
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Not at all. I can certainly respect your position on that, however, past history and when I worked with people who were within the Predators organization (that I still keep in touch with I might add) have told me certain things about Poile's deadlines, I find a serious amount of discrepancy between what Poile tries to do and what Poile actually does. Now part of that is the price, part of that is him trying to find the absolute perfect piece. While that isn't a bad thing, and this is conjecture on my part, I think he tries to hard to make the absolute PERFECT deal rather than settling for a good deal and taking some slightly more risky maneuvers. Again, this conjecture on my part based on the things I have heard from other people who are much closer to him than I am, including one of our professional scouts.
The "inside information" was what makes your initial comments credible. If you had referenced sources inside the Preds organization, I would have accepted your post without question. The premise being -- Poile says one thing publicly, but tends to hesitate and not completely follow through.

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02-19-2012, 03:50 PM
  #140
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I don't think Hartnell fits in with your discussions on DP.

That was the year Liarpold decided to sell the team in the fall before he did it.

I doubt DP had the authority to do anything like that, that year.

Yes, we all heard what Hartnell told people he would sign for, but that's not the probable reality that Poile was operating in that year.

It'll be an interesting time this next week.

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02-19-2012, 04:14 PM
  #141
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Excellent post. I think there is a lot of truth in here. Suter & Weber have lived the cautiousness of DP and that is why they have made the stand that they have. They are probably the only 2 that could have done so as I didn't see Pekka having the personality to do so and was the logical one to sign first. If Suter & Weber didn't care about this organization and winning and pushing the Preds to reach the Cup Finals and be all that it could be, they would have both just remained quiet and played out their obligations and moved on.
They are holding DP's feet to the fire in the only way they can (eventhough people would make the valid point that they are hindering DP's ability to achieve those goals by not signing the longterm contract).
I just can't blame them for wanting to see actions and not just promises.
As long as they hold up their end if poile does in fact follow through then 6/20 will have done this team and us a huge service.

I just hope they have been pretty specific with Poile about their expectations and I hope if poile gives them what they want that they have the stones to go ahead and sign on the dotted line.

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02-19-2012, 05:24 PM
  #142
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I think I would have rather had Kubina.

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02-19-2012, 07:23 PM
  #143
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As long as they hold up their end if poile does in fact follow through then 6/20 will have done this team and us a huge service.

I just hope they have been pretty specific with Poile about their expectations and I hope if poile gives them what they want that they have the stones to go ahead and sign on the dotted line.
Unfortunately Suter raised the bar up a notch by the statement, "Winning will allow things to take care of themselves."
If this was a public statement of what has already been said privately, then that is one thing. But the players (and Suter as well) have to take their fair share of responsibility for the outcomes of games. Poile can only give them the tools to play the game.

To his credit, Suter did take responsibility for the Datsyuk goal that cost them the game in Detroit.

However if his definition of "winning" means anything short of an appearance in the Cup Finals means that he will not sign.....then that is totally unreasonable for Suter to demand.

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02-19-2012, 07:25 PM
  #144
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I think I would have rather had Kubina.
Pretty sure he had a ntc so no guarantee he woul come here even if we could have swung a deal

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02-19-2012, 07:33 PM
  #145
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I think I would have rather had Kubina.
See what you mean in that overall, Kubina is probably the overall better dman. But there's a few reasons why I like Gill better:
-Gill fills a bigger need as a PK specialist
-Gill has a reputation of a playoff warrior, and has more than double the experience
-Time has been kinder to Gill. He's only slowed down a little lately, whereas Kubina has regressed a lot in recent years.
-Kubina takes more penalties
-Gill is cheaper, if that matters

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02-19-2012, 08:06 PM
  #146
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I don't think Hartnell fits in with your discussions on DP.

That was the year Liarpold decided to sell the team in the fall before he did it.

I doubt DP had the authority to do anything like that, that year.

Yes, we all heard what Hartnell told people he would sign for, but that's not the probable reality that Poile was operating in that year.

It'll be an interesting time this next week.
Hartnell was a different story. Poile almost traded for him the 2009-2010 year. Wasn't talking about the year we traded him, sorry for the confusion.

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02-19-2012, 08:14 PM
  #147
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Hartnell was a different story. Poile almost traded for him the 2009-2010 year. Wasn't talking about the year we traded him, sorry for the confusion.
okay, I guess i don't remember that! thanks for clearing it up

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