HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Why Bryzgalov Can Be Traded

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-19-2012, 09:08 AM
  #1
RetiredFlyer
Rookie User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 164
vCash: 500
Why Bryzgalov Can Be Traded

1. He would waive his NMC: Letís be honest here, the guy is clearly not enjoying his time here in Philadelphia. He looks clinically depressed when speaking to the media, the fans are giving it to him, his teammates donít really appear to like him all that much and Timonen has taken open shots at him. Why wouldnít he want to be traded? Itís not like this team looks like a cup contender at the moment, his money is guaranteed no matter where he plays, he appears on the verge of a mental break at the hands of playing in this city, so why would he ever reject a trade?

2. He is still an above average goalie in this league:
I look at some of our fans serving up JVR + Bob + Coburn + more in proposals for Rick Nash and then in the next breath saying Bryz has negative value and I find myself confused. Rick Nash is a man who has underperformed for the better part of 3 years. He has given up before. He looks disinterested. He is a terrible leader. He is having an abysmal year this year (on pace for 55 pts). Yet for some reason, he still has value. And not just value, but a ďhumongous bigĒ amount of value.

Then you look at Bryzgalov. For 3 out of his four years in Phoenix, he was excellent. In a small market with minimal pressure, he was flat out dominant. He was a Vezina contender year in and year out and he carried them to the playoffs twice. Unlike Nash, there was no ďwell, if Bryz had teammates heíd be greatĒ. No, Bryz succeeded without good teammates. He was elite. Period. No questions asked. No ifs ands or buts.

You wonít get an argument from me if you say that Bryzgalov has been terrible here. I agree. You also wonít get an argument from me if you feel like Bryzgalov isnít likely to improve here. On the contrary, I think it could get worse down the line. Bryz just doesnít have the makeup to play goalie in this market (my opinion). But in a smaller market, he could return to form. In fact, I think itís likely that if traded to a low-pressure environment, he returns to form.

If teams are willing to take a chance that Rick Nash returns to form (actually most teams appear to be banking on him being even better than he was on average in C-Bus) in the correct environment, why wouldnít some of those same teams be willing to take a chance on Ilya Bryzgalov?

If Ilya Bryzgalov returns to the .920 save percentage pace he had in Phoenix wherever he goes then all of the sudden his cap hit is back to being perfectly appropriate. If Rick Nash returns to his average 65-70 point performance, he is still overpaid. Just remember that.

I know itís cathartic to rag on your own players after losses and to bash guys who have been brutal this year (as Bryz has been), even Iíve been guilty of this, but itís also important to take a step back from time to time and realize that itís never as bad as you think it is.

This is not some Gomez situation or DiPietro situation. This is a case of a goalie being incapable of handling the pressure in Philadelphia (and itís not the first time); the skills are still there. That very fact should give you hope for the future. Perhaps Bryzgalov adapts to the environment, gets comfortable, and becomes the goalie they we want. Or perhaps Bryzgalov gets traded tomorrow in a package for Rick Nash. The point is, Bryzgalov is certainly a tradeable commodity and I have no doubt that actual NHL GMs of small-market teams like Columbus would agree and would like to pick him up.

RetiredFlyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 09:12 AM
  #2
flyersfan187
Registered User
 
flyersfan187's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morrisdale, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,880
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to flyersfan187 Send a message via Skype™ to flyersfan187
I remember how much people were wanting him this off season. A good system can make a goalie and a bad one can break a goalie. He is a goalie that needs to be confident to be great, and clearly he isn't confident playing behind a team that lets up that many good chances against him.

flyersfan187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 09:15 AM
  #3
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
I remember how much people were wanting him this off season. A good system can make a goalie and a bad one can break a goalie. He is a goalie that needs to be confident to be great, and clearly he isn't confident playing behind a team that lets up that many good chances against him.
I think that's a big part of it - he thought he was coming to a contender with solid players and a solid system.

JXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 09:19 AM
  #4
Hockeypete49
How you like me now!
 
Hockeypete49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 5,016
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredFlyer View Post
1. He would waive his NMC: Let’s be honest here, the guy is clearly not enjoying his time here in Philadelphia. He looks clinically depressed when speaking to the media, the fans are giving it to him, his teammates don’t really appear to like him all that much and Timonen has taken open shots at him. Why wouldn’t he want to be traded? It’s not like this team looks like a cup contender at the moment, his money is guaranteed no matter where he plays, he appears on the verge of a mental break at the hands of playing in this city, so why would he ever reject a trade?

2. He is still an above average goalie in this league:
I look at some of our fans serving up JVR + Bob + Coburn + more in proposals for Rick Nash and then in the next breath saying Bryz has negative value and I find myself confused. Rick Nash is a man who has underperformed for the better part of 3 years. He has given up before. He looks disinterested. He is a terrible leader. He is having an abysmal year this year (on pace for 55 pts). Yet for some reason, he still has value. And not just value, but a “humongous big” amount of value.

Then you look at Bryzgalov. For 3 out of his four years in Phoenix, he was excellent. In a small market with minimal pressure, he was flat out dominant. He was a Vezina contender year in and year out and he carried them to the playoffs twice. Unlike Nash, there was no “well, if Bryz had teammates he’d be great”. No, Bryz succeeded without good teammates. He was elite. Period. No questions asked. No ifs ands or buts.

You won’t get an argument from me if you say that Bryzgalov has been terrible here. I agree. You also won’t get an argument from me if you feel like Bryzgalov isn’t likely to improve here. On the contrary, I think it could get worse down the line. Bryz just doesn’t have the makeup to play goalie in this market (my opinion). But in a smaller market, he could return to form. In fact, I think it’s likely that if traded to a low-pressure environment, he returns to form.

If teams are willing to take a chance that Rick Nash returns to form (actually most teams appear to be banking on him being even better than he was on average in C-Bus) in the correct environment, why wouldn’t some of those same teams be willing to take a chance on Ilya Bryzgalov?

If Ilya Bryzgalov returns to the .920 save percentage pace he had in Phoenix wherever he goes then all of the sudden his cap hit is back to being perfectly appropriate. If Rick Nash returns to his average 65-70 point performance, he is still overpaid. Just remember that.

I know it’s cathartic to rag on your own players after losses and to bash guys who have been brutal this year (as Bryz has been), even I’ve been guilty of this, but it’s also important to take a step back from time to time and realize that it’s never as bad as you think it is.

This is not some Gomez situation or DiPietro situation. This is a case of a goalie being incapable of handling the pressure in Philadelphia (and it’s not the first time); the skills are still there. That very fact should give you hope for the future. Perhaps Bryzgalov adapts to the environment, gets comfortable, and becomes the goalie they we want. Or perhaps Bryzgalov gets traded tomorrow in a package for Rick Nash. The point is, Bryzgalov is certainly a tradeable commodity and I have no doubt that actual NHL GMs of small-market teams like Columbus would agree and would like to pick him up.
I would be suprized if anyone would pick him up. Plus remember he still would have to waive his NTC. I just think we are going to have to suck it up and hope he sees the light at the end of the tunnel. This team does not need a Rick Nash. It needed defensive stability. Which with the two moves Homer just completed take care of that. CBJ is going to have to move him and there are only so many teams that can handle that contract so I think that the jackets are going to have to accept far less value than they thought they were going to get for him. Way to much money for a player who cannot carry a team on his back. For that money I would exspect a lot more from him. No bang for your buck there.

Hockeypete49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 09:24 AM
  #5
Swiper the Fox
Registered User
 
Swiper the Fox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 349
vCash: 500
Perhaps we can wait it out and see how he plays with some better defensemen in front of him , that have recently been acquired

Swiper the Fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 09:28 AM
  #6
Hockeypete49
How you like me now!
 
Hockeypete49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 5,016
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
I remember how much people were wanting him this off season. A good system can make a goalie and a bad one can break a goalie. He is a goalie that needs to be confident to be great, and clearly he isn't confident playing behind a team that lets up that many good chances against him.
Clearly the Flyers brass understands the investment they have in Bryz. The moves they just made should help both goalies and help settle Kimmo down along with Carle and Mez. It is kind of good they are going on a road trip to get away from the stinking Philly media. The chick on Comcast is a real *****. She and timmyp just love to stir crap up. This is another area where Chris would have put them on their place.

Hockeypete49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 09:30 AM
  #7
MsWoof
Registered User
 
MsWoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,655
vCash: 500
Honestly, who would want him? We heard the stories about him coming out of Phoenix after the fact, we saw his strange behaviour on 24/7 and we've seen his terrible play. The only hope is amnesty but does Snider want to see his pride take the hit? I know he's majorly rich but the amount of money he'd have to pay is absurd.

The only other option is retirement. He's making, what, $10 million this season? I would be surprised if he chose that option but not horribly.

Wait...is he making $10 million or $15 this year?

http://capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=1141

Is the $5 million signing bonus included in the $10 million? I just added up all the money through 2020 and it comes to $51 million excluding the signing bonus.

MsWoof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 09:31 AM
  #8
Mr Black
Flyers-76ers-Eagles
 
Mr Black's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ross Ice Shelf
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 2,786
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
I would be suprized if anyone would pick him up. Plus remember he still would have to waive his NTC. I just think we are going to have to suck it up and hope he sees the light at the end of the tunnel. This team does not need a Rick Nash. It needed defensive stability. Which with the two moves Homer just completed take care of that. CBJ is going to have to move him and there are only so many teams that can handle that contract so I think that the jackets are going to have to accept far less value than they thought they were going to get for him. Way to much money for a player who cannot carry a team on his back. For that money I would exspect a lot more from him. No bang for your buck there.
If you have a ntc, are guaranteed the money, and not wanted, why wouldn't you want to get out?

Mr Black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 10:52 AM
  #9
Tim Tebow
Registered User
 
Tim Tebow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Westeros
Country: United States
Posts: 590
vCash: 500
As stated in the title this is pure speculation, if even 1 thing he said is untrue it can completely change the situation. Plus one can also make the argument that common logic does not apply to Bryzgalov. He has always been an oddball who has reacted in unique ways to certain situations his entire career.

The teammate thing is always inaccurate. His teammates have also numerously defended him in the media and in situations were the media was not watching with local fans at games. In addition it does not matter what team you play for, if you make mistakes you will always feel heat from your teammates. This is one thing that does not change from professional sports to high school teams. In other words even if we shipped him to Columbus if he still struggles it's not like his teammates would be like, "Don't worry about it Bryz! We all suck here! We won't judge!" Athletes are athletes whether they are 30 or 16. Playing in Columbus won't make his situation anymore comfortable. Especially considering Columbus is #28 in offense and #29 in defense with the star players still on it.
Not to mention hockey players have lives outside of the team.

IMO Bryz only waives his NMC to go to a team that has a pretty decent looking situation and I don't know if any of those teams would take him with that contract. Bryz's situation isn't so bad that the grass is greener on every other side.

Tim Tebow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 11:04 AM
  #10
Lucky Luke
Registered User
 
Lucky Luke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,336
vCash: 500
He needs to quit trying to be an eclectic idiot and just stop the ****ing pucks.

Lucky Luke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 11:16 AM
  #11
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 116,449
vCash: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
I think that's a big part of it - he thought he was coming to a contender with solid players and a solid system.
It would be a better system if he could make routine saves.


He also came here because the Flyers were willing to give him an absurd contract. He didn't want to paid as a top goalie, he wanted to be paid as a top player.

He wanted to be paid like a goalie who would survive under your so-called not-solid Cup-Winning system.


As for trading him to Columbus, it's not going to happen. Not only do they not want someone as bad as Steve Mason, but they also don't want this kind of contract on their hands. They're among other reasons they want to trade Rick Nash and Jeff Carter.

__________________
Philadelphia's Real Alternative
(ynotradio.net)

Stop Feeding the Rumor-Monger

"I wonder if Norstrom has Forsberg's spleen mounted on his wall." - KINGS17

My 50 Favorite Albums of 2014 (sorry it's late)
GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 11:31 AM
  #12
ONTHEFLYGUY
Registered User
 
ONTHEFLYGUY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 175
vCash: 500
get over it, no one wants him! hes our problem and will be for a long time

ONTHEFLYGUY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 11:42 AM
  #13
BringBackStevens
Registered User
 
BringBackStevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,849
vCash: 500
His time in Phoenix is way overstated. Mike smith is tearing it up down there too.

Tippet's system made bryz look like something he wasn't. There is also zero pressure in Phoenix.

What you see now I closer to what he "actually" is. He's not a top goalie.

BringBackStevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 11:45 AM
  #14
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 116,449
vCash: 450
Your best hope is for there be an NHL Lockout long enough to change enough rules where teams get amnesty clauses like there were in the NBA.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 11:47 AM
  #15
R3M1N1SC3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 94
vCash: 500
They need to figure out something with this goalie situation!

One thing is clear, we cannot beat NYR or BOS in a 7 game series. It's becoming more and more clear that the Stanley Cup will go through one of these teams.

With the addition of Kubina and Grossman our defense should become more solid. Kubina has a rocket from the point which should help on the PP and maybe even scare away some of these teams from blocking shots. Also, it won't hurt to have a couple of these big bodies on the blue line come playoff time.

A lot of people seem to be saying "Don't worry about Bryz, he will come around..." etc etc. Well, when is he finally going to show up? We're on the verge of plummeting in the standings. The guy has let in so many soft goals this year. You can tell his confidence is all but shattered.

We haven't put together back-to-back wins in over a month. When will enough be enough? Does anybody think Holmgren is gonna roll this team into the playoffs knowing we probably won't get past the second round? Maybe even the first round.

I think a major shakeup is on the way

R3M1N1SC3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 11:50 AM
  #16
BringBackStevens
Registered User
 
BringBackStevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,849
vCash: 500
Its unfortunate that bryz's inability to live up to expectations is going to lead to the inevitable destruction of what looks like a great young core

Holmgren dug his own grave though. Even if bryz was posting a .920 that contract would still be abysmal.

I wish he had the slather ability to get rid of these awful contracts without gutting the team but I don't see it

BringBackStevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 11:54 AM
  #17
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
I remember how much people were wanting him this off season. A good system can make a goalie and a bad one can break a goalie. He is a goalie that needs to be confident to be great, and clearly he isn't confident playing behind a team that lets up that many good chances against him.
We have a team that's among the contenders in the league in terms of not giving up many good opportunities.

People sniping from outside the dots and not even hitting top shelf when there is no screen does NOT qualify as a "scoring chance."


I'm starting to get bored with the people blaming the defense and the system like this defense and system never worked before. Bryzgalov is as bad as Leighton and without Pronger, Richards, and Carter to cushion him, Leighton/Bryzgalov becomes a sieve.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 11:59 AM
  #18
R3M1N1SC3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 94
vCash: 500
Correct me if I'm wrong but worst case scenario....

Let's say everything just implodes. Bryz straight up loses his job. Starts bashing the team in the media, etc etc.

Can we not just send him to the AHL? Essentially putting him on waivers. Assuming no team would pick him up, it would force him to either play, retire, or go to the KHL, and his contract wouldn't count against the cap....

R3M1N1SC3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 12:04 PM
  #19
mirimon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Wrong Town
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3M1N1SC3 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but worst case scenario....

Let's say everything just implodes. Bryz straight up loses his job. Starts bashing the team in the media, etc etc.

Can we not just send him to the AHL? Essentially putting him on waivers. Assuming no team would pick him up, it would force him to either play, retire, or go to the KHL, and his contract wouldn't count against the cap....
He has a NMC, so he would have to agree to being waived (and sent down afterwards if he clears).

mirimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 12:04 PM
  #20
Tim Tebow
Registered User
 
Tim Tebow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Westeros
Country: United States
Posts: 590
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3M1N1SC3 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but worst case scenario....

Let's say everything just implodes. Bryz straight up loses his job. Starts bashing the team in the media, etc etc.

Can we not just send him to the AHL? Essentially putting him on waivers. Assuming no team would pick him up, it would force him to either play, retire, or go to the KHL, and his contract wouldn't count against the cap....
Bryz has a no movement clause which is more powerful then a no trade clause because the Flyers cannot move him anywhere without him having the power to deny the move. Basically if Bryz wants to stay on the Flyers roster they can't move him, I believe all they can do is bench him or buy him out which wouldn't help much.

EDIT:

I should add I am not an expert on NHL contract rules but if Bryz went nuts like that if it's anything like the NFL it is possible the Flyers may be able to give him the TO treatment. Many may remember when TO went nuts they sent him home and said his behavior was detrimental to the team and they won the case and TO had to return a lot of money to the Eagles. But I am not sure if the NHL has something like that.


Last edited by Tim Tebow: 02-19-2012 at 12:10 PM.
Tim Tebow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 12:09 PM
  #21
R3M1N1SC3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 94
vCash: 500
ugh......

R3M1N1SC3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 12:30 PM
  #22
MountainHawk
Registered User
 
MountainHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salem, MA
Country: Vanuatu
Posts: 12,771
vCash: 500
Can they even buy him out? He can't be waived, which is required to be bought out.

MountainHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 12:30 PM
  #23
PJStock*
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Whitehorse, Yukon
Country: Canada
Posts: 562
vCash: 500
I wonder, if Homer was to bring in Nabakov, how Bryzgalov would react?

PJStock* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 12:37 PM
  #24
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 116,449
vCash: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Can they even buy him out? He can't be waived, which is required to be bought out.
Buy outs are not affected by NMC's.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 12:40 PM
  #25
MountainHawk
Registered User
 
MountainHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salem, MA
Country: Vanuatu
Posts: 12,771
vCash: 500
If you bought out Bryzgalov after the season, you would have a cap hit penalty until 2028, including two years where it would be a $5M+ penalty because of the salary drop off.

Ilya Bryzgalov buyout from CapGeek.com
2012-13: $875,000
2013-14: -$625,000
2014-15: $1,375,000
2015-16: $1,375,000
2016-17: $1,875,000
2017-18: $1,875,000
2018-19: $5,125,000
2019-20: $6,125,000
2020-21: $1,708,333
2021-22: $1,708,333
2022-23: $1,708,333
2023-24: $1,708,333
2024-25: $1,708,333
2025-26: $1,708,333
2026-27: $1,708,333
2027-28: $1,708,333

MountainHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:12 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.