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Is it me or are the Habs a better team under Cunney?

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Old
02-19-2012, 10:44 AM
  #76
Roulin
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
What have you been watching? Martin always found a way to blame the young players.
Please, give me examples more recent than the one game benching of Subban and Eller at the beginning of 2010-11.

Cunneyworth is the one who seems to be unable to find a use for Eller, a player who was thriving under Martin this season in a defined role.

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02-19-2012, 11:03 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Please, give me examples more recent than the one game benching of Subban and Eller at the beginning of 2010-11.

Cunneyworth is the one who seems to be unable to find a use for Eller, a player who was thriving under Martin this season in a defined role.
Errr...after damn near every loss in his post game presser he would blame the young players. He did it after virtually every loss. This is well known.

Eller had a 4 goal game with Cunney and is scoring at a better clip under Cunney so I have no idea what you're talking about. Subban has played better under Cunney as well.

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02-19-2012, 11:25 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Errr...after damn near every loss in his post game presser he would blame the young players. He did it after virtually every loss. This is well known.

Eller had a 4 goal game with Cunney and is scoring at a better clip under Cunney so I have no idea what you're talking about. Subban has played better under Cunney as well.
Again, if you're going to say Martin blamed "the young players" after every loss, you're really going to have to provide examples.

Eller played 5:48 last game. That's the short version of what I'm talking about.

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02-19-2012, 12:13 PM
  #79
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Again, if you're going to say Martin blamed "the young players" after every loss, you're really going to have to provide examples.

Eller played 5:48 last game. That's the short version of what I'm talking about.
For something that is so common, I'm going to ask you to go dig up his pressers. "young players struggling" "inexperience" blah blah blah every frigging game he blamed the young players on the team.

And Eller got benched with Martin too. Do you not remember younger players getting benched after every mistake?

I have no issue with the Eller benching because it was a STUPID penalty and he takes too many of them.

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02-19-2012, 12:18 PM
  #80
Myron Gaines*
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Under Cunny, we play a much more aggressive game, which fits us so well. It burned us at the beginning, but the team seems to be buying it lately. The problem is that, I don't think Cunny has the authority necessary on this team to stay for next year.

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02-19-2012, 12:25 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
Under Cunny, we play a much more aggressive game, which fits us so well. It burned us at the beginning, but the team seems to be buying it lately. The problem is that, I don't think Cunny has the authority necessary on this team to stay for next year.
I think you're underestimating how well former player coaches and their players relate to each other in today's NHL, and how much respect is there. You hear players comment on it fairly often these days, and I think there are even some recent quotes along this lines from some of our own players re: Cunneyworth as new coach.

PG (or whomever) might find, and ultimately select, a "better" coach by next year, but they likely won't go shopping hard on the basis of Cunneyworth's perceived authority in the locker room, imo.

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02-19-2012, 01:33 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
How so?
As I sort of indicated, although not expressly, this is really just a theory of mine and one that probably will never be, and probably can't, be proven. Still, I think that coaches who streess sound positional play and body position will tend to reduce injuries which are often caused by someone caught out of position and falling awkwardly. Also, I think a coach like RC who for example stresses a strong forecheck game will wind up with less high pressure situations in his own zone thus reducing stress on the defense and potential injury from shot blocking and hard forechecking from the opposing team. As I said, and I'll stress again, this is only a theory of mine and there's is no real empirical evidence to support it, but I do feel it does have some merit.

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Old
02-19-2012, 01:51 PM
  #83
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Errr...after damn near every loss in his post game presser he would blame the young players. He did it after virtually every loss. This is well known.

Eller had a 4 goal game with Cunney and is scoring at a better clip under Cunney so I have no idea what you're talking about. Subban has played better under Cunney as well.
No need to exaggerate there, ''virtually after every loss''...
Ya, okay...

He also never threw them under the boss, he resorted to things like ''we have a lot of young guys'', in the sense that, they will make mistakes and they will learn, it's absolutely normal. You know what? He was absolutely right. The people that decided to understand Martin's comment as a blame the kids type, are the ones that just really couldn't deal with Martin any more.
I never liked Martin, I've never been a fan of defensive systems. I did find myself to be one of the few here that had to defend him however because of the overly critical fanbase in Mtl. There was nothing wrong with what he said about the kids, he was 100% right.

As for Subban, according to many (not me, because I think Subban has been playing well all year, you can look through my posts), he started playing well after his ''indiscretion'' with Ladouceur, I guess he should be credited.
Eller is producing more, but he's not being used more than he was under Martin, remove his abnormal 5pt game and it lowers the pt gap too. His role is less defensive.
That went to Plekanec, who is being turned into a 3rd line center. Plek has 16pts in 27gp under RC, as opposed to 25pts in 32gp.
What about RC's inability to make Bourque work? 5pts in 15gp?
One guy that is incredibly thriving though is Mathieu Darche, thank god we have him. I mean, almost 4minutes more than any other forward at even strength last game? Our most used forward all night? What would we do without the great Darche, I wonder.
You were talking about youngsters, but that's irrelevant. You need your youngsters, young veterans and veterans to play well. But I could have mentioned Price, and what about PK last year? What about DD?? What about MaxPac? Diaz? They all excelled under Martin either last year or this season. So let's stop pretending like Martin sucked out the talent of any youngster.

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Old
02-19-2012, 01:57 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
No need to exaggerate there, ''virtually after every loss''...
Ya, okay...

He also never threw them under the boss, he resorted to things like ''we have a lot of young guys'', in the sense that, they will make mistakes and they will learn, it's absolutely normal. You know what? He was absolutely right. The people that decided to understand Martin's comment as a blame the kids type, are the ones that just really couldn't deal with Martin any more.
I never liked Martin, I've never been a fan of defensive systems. I did find myself to be one of the few here that had to defend him however because of the overly critical fanbase in Mtl. There was nothing wrong with what he said about the kids, he was 100% right.

As for Subban, according to many (not me, because I think Subban has been playing well all year, you can look through my posts), he started playing well after his ''indiscretion'' with Ladouceur, I guess he should be credited.
Eller is producing more, but he's not being used more than he was under Martin, remove his abnormal 5pt game and it lowers the pt gap too. His role is less defensive.
That went to Plekanec, who is being turned into a 3rd line center. Plek has 16pts in 27gp under RC, as opposed to 25pts in 32gp.
What about RC's inability to make Bourque work? 5pts in 15gp?
One guy that is incredibly thriving though is Mathieu Darche, thank god we have him. I mean, almost 4minutes more than any other forward at even strength last game? Our most used forward all night? What would we do without the great Darche, I wonder.
You were talking about youngsters, but that's irrelevant. You need your youngsters, young veterans and veterans to play well. But I could have mentioned Price, and what about PK last year? What about DD?? What about MaxPac? Diaz? They all excelled under Martin either last year or this season. So let's stop pretending like Martin sucked out the talent of any youngster.
Err, I never said Martin sucked out the talent of any youngster. If you're going to have a discussion with me, please don't try to put words in my mouth, it's annoying and I hate arguing with people like that.

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Old
02-19-2012, 02:02 PM
  #85
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really deosnt matter - chances are GreatCunny isnt head coach next season

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02-19-2012, 02:10 PM
  #86
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Err, I never said Martin sucked out the talent of any youngster. If you're going to have a discussion with me, please don't try to put words in my mouth, it's annoying and I hate arguing with people like that.
So you don't like it when people put words in your mouth?
And what do you think you are doing with Martin exactly? Saying he blamed the youngsters virtually after every single loss and that this is well know? It's okay because he's not a poster? Maybe you should look in the mirror?
Martin might have done that one or two times, perhaps, but as I said before, he was absolutely right, and that's a very long way from ''after virtually every loss''.

Also, if you don't want people to misunderstand you, then perhaps you should express yourself a little better. When you make a post saying Martin criticized the kids for pretty much every loss, that Eller and PK are doing better under RC, then what are you expecting people understand exactly? That you're saying Martin was okay with the kids?
Make it clear.

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02-19-2012, 02:13 PM
  #87
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Gorges PK
Emelin Diaz
Campoli Kaberle
Weber

Not so many good D out there but we're still not doing bad. Imagine if we had Markov instead of Campoli.

However, on offensive, it's much better than before.

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02-19-2012, 02:33 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
So you don't like it when people put words in your mouth?
And what do you think you are doing with Martin exactly? Saying he blamed the youngsters virtually after every single loss and that this is well know? It's okay because he's not a poster? Maybe you should look in the mirror?
Martin might have done that one or two times, perhaps, but as I said before, he was absolutely right, and that's a very long way from ''after virtually every loss''.

Also, if you don't want people to misunderstand you, then perhaps you should express yourself a little better. When you make a post saying Martin criticized the kids for pretty much every loss, that Eller and PK are doing better under RC, then what are you expecting people understand exactly? That you're saying Martin was okay with the kids?
Make it clear.
Maybe you should learn how to READ. And while you're at it, drop the patronizing attitude.

Don't bother responding. Your post will be hidden anyways.

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02-19-2012, 02:56 PM
  #89
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Maybe you should learn how to READ. And while you're at it, drop the patronizing attitude.

Don't bother responding. Your post will be hidden anyways.
Ya, ignore everybody that counters your posts intelligently.

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:03 PM
  #90
Roulin
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
For something that is so common, I'm going to ask you to go dig up his pressers. "young players struggling" "inexperience" blah blah blah every frigging game he blamed the young players on the team.
I will actually listen to the pressers for Martin's last 2 or 3 losses tonight, when I have time. But given how aggressive you've been in your criticisms, you should be the one prepared with proof. Otherwise you're just part of the mob, armed only with hearsay and reputation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
And Eller got benched with Martin too. Do you not remember younger players getting benched after every mistake?
I remember the rare occasion, blown out of proportion by media and fans looking for a narrative. I also remember Eller's role clearly defined, steadily increasing in importance and difficulty as he improved his play. As opposed to Cunneyworth's snap judgements, changing shift by shift.

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02-19-2012, 03:17 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I will actually listen to the pressers for Martin's last 2 or 3 losses tonight, when I have time. But given how aggressive you've been in your criticisms, you should be the one prepared with proof. Otherwise you're just part of the mob, armed only with hearsay and reputation.



I remember the rare occasion, blown out of proportion by media and fans looking for a narrative. I also remember Eller's role clearly defined, steadily increasing in importance and difficulty as he improved his play. As opposed to Cunneyworth's snap judgements, changing shift by shift.
I don't consider myself part of the mob because I have given Martin credit for a lot of things. If there's a way for me to find his pressers, I'll do it, I just don't have the time or patience to search the net for them.

I'm not the type to just go with what others are saying...I think I'm pretty damn unbiased. Only thing I may be biased about is PK...but I HEART him.

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02-19-2012, 03:35 PM
  #92
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In press conferences after losses, Martin frequently remarked on how many young players there were on the roster. Not blaming them directly but that was implied.

Anyway throw out the first 10 games after taking the reins and Cunney looks good compared to Martin, most games now I like the way the team is playing, more aggression less fear IMO.

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02-19-2012, 04:38 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
In press conferences after losses, Martin frequently remarked on how many young players there were on the roster. Not blaming them directly but that was implied.
This was all I was saying. I watch every presser and he commented on our "young" and "inexperienced" players making mistakes and it's a "learning process"... I wasn't pulling this stuff out of thin air. Actually, I think his last presser before getting canned, he "blamed" the young guys.

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02-19-2012, 04:38 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
So you don't like it when people put words in your mouth?
And what do you think you are doing with Martin exactly? Saying he blamed the youngsters virtually after every single loss and that this is well know? It's okay because he's not a poster? Maybe you should look in the mirror?
Martin might have done that one or two times, perhaps, but as I said before, he was absolutely right, and that's a very long way from ''after virtually every loss''.

Also, if you don't want people to misunderstand you, then perhaps you should express yourself a little better. When you make a post saying Martin criticized the kids for pretty much every loss, that Eller and PK are doing better under RC, then what are you expecting people understand exactly? That you're saying Martin was okay with the kids?
Make it clear.
Kriss, Martin consistently called out his younger players, directly and indirectly.

That was one of his biggest flaws. He was forerver pitting players against each other. Gomez sucked in a game and made numerous errors, mistakes etc, and he still got 20 minutes. A young player made one mistake and rode the pine. Not very motivational.

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02-19-2012, 04:39 PM
  #95
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New coach, honeymoon period was bound ta happen at some point...

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02-19-2012, 05:07 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Kriss, Martin consistently called out his younger players, directly and indirectly.

That was one of his biggest flaws. He was forerver pitting players against each other. Gomez sucked in a game and made numerous errors, mistakes etc, and he still got 20 minutes. A young player made one mistake and rode the pine. Not very motivational.
isnt that the example provided here by some, that it was OK tobench Eller cause he had ONE bad penalty ?

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02-19-2012, 05:09 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
In press conferences after losses, Martin frequently remarked on how many young players there were on the roster. Not blaming them directly but that was implied.

Anyway throw out the first 10 games after taking the reins and Cunney looks good compared to Martin, most games now I like the way the team is playing, more aggression less fear IMO.
pretty sure if you remove the first 10 games this season JM records look good too...

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02-19-2012, 05:10 PM
  #98
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isnt that the example provided here by some, that it was OK tobench Eller cause he had ONE bad penalty ?
And Eller should have been benched. The guy is a good player and has a lot of upside but he takes way too many dumb penalties. Far too many stick penalties. You can only tell a guy so many times not to do something. Eventually you have to bench them.

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02-19-2012, 05:16 PM
  #99
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pretty sure if you remove the first 10 games this season JM records look good too...
Right, lets compare a guy in his 3rd season to a guy who was basically told to go coach a struggling team mid season.

And uh, the team struggled to start Martin's 1st year. I'll give him a mulligan for that one. But not in year 3.

Try again

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02-19-2012, 05:17 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
And Eller should have been benched. The guy is a good player and has a lot of upside but he takes way too many dumb penalties. Far too many stick penalties. You can only tell a guy so many times not to do something. Eventually you have to bench them.
ah I see... when Connie bench a young player -> good move
when someone else does it -> throwing the kid under the bus.


interesting...

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