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Your face when you realize David Desharnais has more assists than...

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Old
02-19-2012, 01:39 PM
  #226
AntonCH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
was one of our best forward in last years series with the Bruins, had tons of chances. Plekanec on the other end always seems to dissapear in the playoffs. Again, for us to become a contender we will need a big talented center to insulate DD.
imho thats going a step too far.
You're already playing him with our 2 power forwards
Now you want to insulate him further by adding a big center?
What's the point if you have to go to those lengths?
Split Pacioretty and Cole, one to DD and one to pleks and let's see what they do.

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02-19-2012, 01:40 PM
  #227
Et le But
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Originally Posted by Felix60 View Post
What warrants a comparison between Desharnais and St-Louis? Obvisouly size, both quebecers, but most of all, their style of play. While Desharnais is not as explosive as St-Louis and doesn't possess the same kind of flair for the net, he still has that same elite vision St-Louis has been racking up assists with. Some small forwards never made the NHL, right, but Desharnais IS in the NHL, Desharnais IS playing in an offensive role, and Desharnais IS doing remarkably well at it. There's nothing to hate from that guy. Also, he has a great work ethic, same goes for St-Louis.
I get the comparison, small playmaker with great smarts and a big heart, but being not as explosive and not having quite the same hands (Desharnais is skilled but I'm not convinced he can ever be the shooter and dangler that St-Louis is) is basically what separates good from great here. Having a poor man's St-Louis is not a bad thing by any means but I think it's important to understand that there will probably never be another St-Louis, like all greats he is one of a kind.

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02-19-2012, 01:40 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
You might love Plekanec, he is a cute player, but the fact are the facts, he just cannot be counted on in big games. You might not believe me, but this guys is gone. He is not resigning a contract and he will be dealt before his contract expire. he will be replaced by a big center. The writing is on the wall, wether or not you want to see it.
Does your crystal ball pick lottery numbers too?

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02-19-2012, 01:41 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
Ah yes the Martin St.Louis argument. He is the exception, not the rule.

If DD has trouble against big teams then he isn't the #1 center we are looking for.

Desharnais' stats:

In 9 games against BOS and PHI, he has 9 points, for an obvious average of 1ppg.

In 59 regular season games, he has 43 points, for 0,73 ppg, and that's *including* his 1 ppg vs BOS and PHI.


Conclusion: Desharnais' better against those prototypical aggressive teams.


Facts. They always seem to get in the the way of prejudice.

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02-19-2012, 01:42 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
imho thats going a step too far.
You're already playing him with our 2 power forwards
Now you want to insulate him further by adding a big center?
What's the point if you have to go to those lengths?
Split Pacioretty and Cole, one to DD and one to pleks and let's see what they do.
LOL you will break ourbest line to accomodate Plekanec. They tried it this season and it failed misserably. DD is a much more intelligent player then Plekanec. And he can actually score on a breakaway

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02-19-2012, 01:45 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I get the comparison, small playmaker with great smarts and a big heart, but being not as explosive and not having quite the same hands (Desharnais is skilled but I'm not convinced he can ever be the shooter and dangler that St-Louis is) is basically what separates good from great here. Having a poor man's St-Louis is not a bad thing by any means but I think it's important to understand that there will probably never be another St-Louis, like all greats he is one of a kind.
That's what I think as well. It's painfully obvious Desharnais has to work on his decisions in front of the net, sometimes he just try to force the pass while he should just shoot it himself. Like I said, he doesn't have that flair for the net St-Louis has, but it can be developed. Either way, I can still see Desharnais becoming a 70+ player in this league as a pass-first guy. He has what it takes. Will he ever be as good as St-Louis? Most probably not, but you can't deny the similarities in their game.

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02-19-2012, 01:46 PM
  #232
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So you want to see my face when I realize this?

Here ya go:


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02-19-2012, 01:46 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
You might love Plekanec, he is a cute player, but the fact are the facts, he just cannot be counted on in big games. You might not believe me, but this guys is gone. He is not resigning a contract and he will be dealt before his contract expire. he will be replaced by a big center. The writing is on the wall, wether or not you want to see it.
Once again, saying your opinion over and over again doesn't make it a fact.

Plekanec stands a good chance not seeing his contract out, as I suspect (not based on facts, on assumptions), the Habs are looking to draft a centre and Eller does have the potential to replace Pleks (but he's not even close to there yet) either way. But as of right now it makes absolutely no sense to trade him unless he's a piece in a massive trade, in which case it's more than just him who will be gone. Because right now if you took out Plekanec and replaced him with a rookie, even Grigorenko, you are going to have a lot of problems. Plekanec is no longer the best offensive forward on this team, if he ever was (that's a good thing), but nobody comes close to being as good at as many things as him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix60 View Post
That's what I think as well. It's painfully obvious Desharnais has to work on his decisions in front of the net, sometimes he just try to force the pass while he should just shoot it himself. Like I said, he doesn't have that flair for the net St-Louis has, but it can be developed. Either way, I can still see Desharnais becoming a 70+ player in this league as a pass-first guy. He has what it takes. Will he ever be as good as St-Louis? Most probably not, but you can't deny the similarities in their game.
I can see Desharnais reaching that level, my gut says 60-70 points is his peak because while hard work and intelligence can get you far, there is a point where one has their limits and I'm not sure if he will ever develop a great shot. But a poor man's St-Louis is still a very nice thing to have, and I think his high hockey IQ means he can be equally valuable as a centre or a winger depending on how this team is built over the next few years.

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02-19-2012, 01:47 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akratique View Post
Desharnais' stats:

In 9 games against BOS and PHI, he has 9 points, for an obvious average of 1ppg.

In 59 regular season games, he has 43 points, for 0,73 ppg, and that's *including* his 1 ppg vs BOS and PHI.


Conclusion: Desharnais' better against those prototypical aggressive teams.


Facts. They always seem to get in the the way of prejudice.
Hey buddy I said a playoff series. You know the time of year when the refs no longer protect players from cheap tactics.

And are you seriously using 9 games as proof?

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02-19-2012, 01:49 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
Hey buddy I said a playoff series. You know the time of year when the refs no longer protect players from cheap tactics.

And are you seriously using 9 games as proof?
What are you using as a proof?

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02-19-2012, 01:50 PM
  #236
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What are you using as a proof?
Common sense.

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02-19-2012, 01:54 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
Common sense.
No, no you're not. Only assumptions based on the height of a player while there's proof players in the same situation can thrive even when the competition gets tougher. Not only that, but we've never have the chance to truly evaluate Desharnais in the playoffs.

It's not common sense, it's bad faith.

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02-19-2012, 01:54 PM
  #238
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Desharnais has great chemistry with Cole and Patch and he is a good offensive centre...But that's it. We need him, but he hasn't replaced Pleks.

What Pleks does is more than just offense...And if you put Cole and Patch with Plekanec I am positive his numbers would be the same. They are the 2 best forwards on the team!

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02-19-2012, 01:55 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Once again, saying your opinion over and over again doesn't make it a fact.

Plekanec stands a good chance not seeing his contract out, as I suspect (not based on facts, on assumptions), the Habs are looking to draft a centre and Eller does have the potential to replace Pleks (but he's not even close to there yet) either way. But as of right now it makes absolutely no sense to trade him unless he's a piece in a massive trade, in which case it's more than just him who will be gone. Because right now if you took out Plekanec and replaced him with a rookie, even Grigorenko, you are going to have a lot of problems. Plekanec is no longer the best offensive forward on this team, if he ever was (that's a good thing), but nobody comes close to being as good at as many things as him.
My arguments. Hence why i think we could get rid of him this summer for a bigger center (Let say a Backlund in St-Louis) or Jeff Carter whom i like a lot.

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02-19-2012, 01:56 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Felix60 View Post
No, no you're not. Only assumptions based on the height of a player while there's proof players in the same situation can thrive even when the competition gets tougher. Not only that, but we've never have the chance to truly evaluate Desharnais in the playoffs.

It's not common sense, it's bad faith.
Sorry dude but you were comparing a right winger to a center......different roles....plus, let DD play a few years before you compare him to the poster boy for all small player exception in the NHL (St Louis).

The poster was indeed using common sense but I am not sure I can say the same of you in that particular case.....

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02-19-2012, 01:58 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Desharnais has great chemistry with Cole and Patch and he is a good offensive centre...But that's it. We need him, but he hasn't replaced Pleks.

What Pleks does is more than just offense...And if you put Cole and Patch with Plekanec I am positive his numbers would be the same. They are the 2 best forwards on the team!
I agree with you he does more, he chokes in the playoff, and becomes, in his own words ''a girlie''

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02-19-2012, 01:58 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Sorry dude but you were comparing a right winger to a center......different roles....plus, let DD play a few years before you compare him to the poster boy for all small player exception in the NHL (St Louis).

The poster was indeed using common sense but I am not sure I can say the same of you in that particular case.....
You just don't get it. Reread some of what I posted, or "Et le but", for that matter.

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02-19-2012, 01:59 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
imho thats going a step too far.
You're already playing him with our 2 power forwards
Now you want to insulate him further by adding a big center?
What's the point if you have to go to those lengths?
Split Pacioretty and Cole, one to DD and one to pleks and let's see what they do.
Well said...At a certain point it becomes too much.

We need the 2 biggest and strongest forwards to play with DD...We need a big centre to insulate DD...Come on. We aren't building the team around him. He's good, but he's not elite and he's not the kind of player you completely change your team for.

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02-19-2012, 02:00 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Felix60 View Post
You just don't get it. Reread some of what I posted, or "Et le but", for that matter.
Oh I been here all along....and you are still not right.....comparing DD to St-Louis is fallacies man.

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02-19-2012, 02:01 PM
  #245
Lebowski
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Oh I been here all along....and you are still not right.....comparing DD to St-Louis is fallacies man.
Fair enough.

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02-19-2012, 02:02 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
I agree with you he does more, he chokes in the playoff, and becomes, in his own words ''a girlie''
And Desharnais has proven enough in the regular season and playoffs that we should dump our current 1st line C and a top two-way forward in the NHL to accomodate him, right?

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02-19-2012, 02:03 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Felix60 View Post
Fair enough.
let me expand, the role of a center is quite more demanding than the role of a right winger. Especially on the D side of the game. Plus, as someone pointed out to you already, St-Louis is the exception that confirms the rule and I agree with that which is why I used another player earlier to compare DD to (Stephane Lebeau but Comrie could have been a good one too).

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02-19-2012, 02:05 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
Give Eller Cole and Patches and I guarantee everyone's production goes up.
Yeah riiight. Eller is a decent 3rd liner until he proves otherwise. Eller could become a special player, but right now, Desharnais is twice as good as he is.

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02-19-2012, 02:07 PM
  #249
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Common sense.
Right, DD will choke in the playoffs because he is small. Just like Mike Cammalleri.

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02-19-2012, 02:08 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
And Desharnais has proven enough in the regular season and playoffs that we should dump our current 1st line C and a top two-way forward in the NHL to accomodate him, right?
Plekanec is not our first line center anymore. And if we draft a Grigorenko, a Faksa or Galchenyuk this summer, we could ease one of them has our second line center. So Plek will have no room anymore has Eller is now our third line center and is has good defensivly as Plekanec and has more size

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