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Old
02-19-2012, 12:48 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Honestly, who would want him? We heard the stories about him coming out of Phoenix after the fact, we saw his strange behaviour on 24/7 and we've seen his terrible play. The only hope is amnesty but does Snider want to see his pride take the hit? I know he's majorly rich but the amount of money he'd have to pay is absurd.

The only other option is retirement. He's making, what, $10 million this season? I would be surprised if he chose that option but not horribly.

Wait...is he making $10 million or $15 this year?

http://capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=1141

Is the $5 million signing bonus included in the $10 million? I just added up all the money through 2020 and it comes to $51 million excluding the signing bonus.
What was his "strange behavior"? on 24/7? The guy tries to be funny? I felt like the harry z. was acting like a dick to him. and jagr moving tables was retarded too. The contract is fat, no doubt, and i doubt were gonna abandon him this soon without a playoff run involved to judge but saying he is strainge just shows your lame and have NO sense of humor. You wanna say he sucks fine, he can be better, but the dude is funny as hell.

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02-19-2012, 12:56 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
If you bought out Bryzgalov after the season, you would have a cap hit penalty until 2028, including two years where it would be a $5M+ penalty because of the salary drop off.

Ilya Bryzgalov buyout from CapGeek.com
2012-13: $875,000
2013-14: -$625,000
2014-15: $1,375,000
2015-16: $1,375,000
2016-17: $1,875,000
2017-18: $1,875,000
2018-19: $5,125,000
2019-20: $6,125,000
2020-21: $1,708,333
2021-22: $1,708,333
2022-23: $1,708,333
2023-24: $1,708,333
2024-25: $1,708,333
2025-26: $1,708,333
2026-27: $1,708,333
2027-28: $1,708,333
If he was our only problem i'd say this was legitimate but unless you have never watched hockey before there's no way you can miss the glaring defensive issues we face during every game. I'll concede that he's streaky and lets in too many questionable goals but we have so many problems across the board it should be hard for any real fan who watches NHL hockey to blame one player in this situation. What makes me mad is his depiction by our media that he has no heart. he's a selfish player. i've rarely seen somebody become more affected by his own bad play than him and he gets hammered for defending himself after he already tried to blame everything on himself and got hammered for that. If we should get rid of anyone its that loser tim pannaccio. he's a dooshbag

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02-19-2012, 01:04 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
What was his "strange behavior"? on 24/7? The guy tries to be funny? I felt like the harry z. was acting like a dick to him. and jagr moving tables was retarded too. The contract is fat, no doubt, and i doubt were gonna abandon him this soon without a playoff run involved to judge but saying he is strainge just shows your lame and have NO sense of humor. You wanna say he sucks fine, he can be better, but the dude is funny as hell.
Unfortunately there is often that perception, that since he's 'different,' which obviously will be the case because he has a different background/culture/religion, then he is automatically strange. The guy has probably the most personality/intelligence out of any other player on the team, which works negatively in this kind of hockey environment. Intelligent people tend to overthink/overanalyze and simply unable to focus on one task ahead of them. What most fans would likely prefer just another high school dropout moron with no personality that just goes to work everyday and stops pucks. Can't say I blame them, but to say the guy is crazy, or a loony is pretty primitive reasoning.

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02-19-2012, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by RetiredFlyer View Post
The point is, Bryzgalov is certainly a tradeable commodity and I have no doubt that actual NHL GMs of small-market teams like Columbus would agree and would like to pick him up.

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02-19-2012, 02:08 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by R3M1N1SC3 View Post

A lot of people seem to be saying "Don't worry about Bryz, he will come around..." etc etc. Well, when is he finally going to show up? We're on the verge of plummeting in the standings. The guy has let in so many soft goals this year. You can tell his confidence is all but shattered.
If we judged Ryan Miller on this year, he would be a bad goalie as well. Players have bad years. Bryz is having one.

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02-19-2012, 02:10 PM
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So many people want Bryzgalov gone. Who would you replace him with?

Everyone said the team needed a number 1 goaltender. The Flyers got one. Now they need to get a healthy defense.

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02-19-2012, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
So many people want Bryzgalov gone. Who would you replace him with?

Everyone said the team needed a number 1 goaltender. The Flyers got one. Now they need to get a healthy defense.
No, they have not gotten one. This is not what a number one goalie looks like

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02-19-2012, 02:14 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
So many people want Bryzgalov gone. Who would you replace him with?

Everyone said the team needed a number 1 goaltender. The Flyers got one. Now they need to get a healthy defense.
Exactly.

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02-19-2012, 02:15 PM
  #34
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People also said he was a system goaltender, playing behind a team filled with players most of whom would not make a Flyers roster. They replace him with Mike Smith, a career backup, and haven't missed a beat.

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02-19-2012, 02:21 PM
  #35
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It's a top 5 bad contract all-time. It's a nuclear meltdown.

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02-19-2012, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
People also said he was a system goaltender, playing behind a team filled with players most of whom would not make a Flyers roster. They replace him with Mike Smith, a career backup, and haven't missed a beat.
I like laviolette, but i see a coaching change coming before we get rid of bryzgalov

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02-19-2012, 02:24 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
I like laviolette, but i see a coaching change coming before we get rid of bryzgalov
LOL no ****.

Bryzgalov's cement-shoe-contract makes his the most secure job on the team.

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02-19-2012, 02:27 PM
  #38
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And yeah, i'm sure we could convince Bryz to get lost

However, convincing some sucker to take this doof and this contract, thats another story

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02-19-2012, 02:27 PM
  #39
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i'm sure bryz is finding his first year in philly a bit difficult, but do you really think he's gonna waive his NMC to go to columbus?

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02-19-2012, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Readyrock View Post
LOL no ****.

Bryzgalov's cement-shoe-contract makes his the most secure job on the team.
well you act like thats so obvious. the way people act on here its like byrzgalov's record is 11.20.6 with no shutouts. He's got a decent record for such a crappy streaky team. my whole point is i agree with him when he said people are simple and want an easy 1 man answer to their problems. every thing is the goalies fault. This is no longer the case in philly. we have deeper problems now.

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02-19-2012, 02:32 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
No, they have not gotten one. This is not what a number one goalie looks like
I think the problem is that the idea of a number one goalie is not a cookie-cutter model.

Teams need goalies that can play in the system they have. A number one goalie on one team may not be a number one goalie on another. This is evident by the fact that many goalies play well for one team and struggle for another. Luongo was awesome in Florida where he faced a billion shots a game and had no external pressure. In Vancouver he is a good goalie, but his numbers aren't nearly what they were in Florida. What changed? Did he get worse? No, he plays in a different system and with much more pressure.

This is one reason I hate goalie stats so much. Robert Esche had #1 goalie numbers when he was with the Flyers, but he was not clutch. He was not a legitimate #1. Same for Cechmanek.

It is almost impossible to look at a goalie on another team and determine if they will be a #1 for our team.

The Flyers getting Bryzgalov had to happen. There was no way anyone would acknowledge the problems with #1 goaltenders unless we actually lived through the mistake. Our goaltending last year was not good enough. The previous 15 years of half-baked solutions had to change. The ONLY untried solution was going out and getting a goalie who was an 'in the prime' #1. It had to happen.

If it fails, it will be helpful in that the team will realize that it just can’t necessarily go buy a goalie and solve the problem. It should keep them from making the same mistake again. Maybe they’ll actually try to raise up a goalie form their own ranks. Or maybe they will play a system to suit the goalie.

I always hold up the Red Wings as a team that plays a system that makes the goalie look good. All the way back to the days of Tim Cheveldae and Bob Essensa; the Red Wings would succeed with Bryzgalov in net, and Bobrovsky.

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02-19-2012, 02:36 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
well you act like thats so obvious. the way people act on here its like byrzgalov's record is 11.20.6 with no shutouts. He's got a decent record for such a crappy streaky team. my whole point is i agree with him when he said people are simple and want an easy 1 man answer to their problems. every thing is the goalies fault. This is no longer the case in philly. we have deeper problems now.
Can anyone make a reasonable case that we would be worse off with Bobrovsky starting and a scarecrow as back-up?

Isn't it sad that that's even a question?

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02-19-2012, 02:44 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
I think the problem is that the idea of a number one goalie is not a cookie-cutter model.

Teams need goalies that can play in the system they have. A number one goalie on one team may not be a number one goalie on another. This is evident by the fact that many goalies play well for one team and struggle for another. Luongo was awesome in Florida where he faced a billion shots a game and had no external pressure. In Vancouver he is a good goalie, but his numbers aren't nearly what they were in Florida. What changed? Did he get worse? No, he plays in a different system and with much more pressure.
Other than not being able to handle the pressure, what really can effect how the goaltender performs? We aren't talking about expecting him to save slam dunk cross ice pass goals. The guy is not even stopping 25 foot unscreened wristers. What does that have to do with a system? This isn't rocket science. Theres a certain degree of difficulty on a shot that is expected to be saved no matter what "system" the team in front is playing. Bryz has **** the bed. Plain and simple.

Quote:
This is one reason I hate goalie stats so much. Robert Esche had #1 goalie numbers when he was with the Flyers, but he was not clutch. He was not a legitimate #1. Same for Cechmanek.
Cechmanek absolutely performed at a #1 level. Problem is he was mental.

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It is almost impossible to look at a goalie on another team and determine if they will be a #1 for our team.
Why? Its not like a ton of people, especially fans of western conference teams didn't say that this guy wasn't as good as a lot of people thought.

Quote:
The Flyers getting Bryzgalov had to happen. There was no way anyone would acknowledge the problems with #1 goaltenders unless we actually lived through the mistake. Our goaltending last year was not good enough. The previous 15 years of half-baked solutions had to change. The ONLY untried solution was going out and getting a goalie who was an 'in the prime' #1. It had to happen.
It didnt have to happen, because there were other options out there. Just because one method hasnt worked doesnt mean you go the complete opposite direction and make a boneheaded move. This contract was stupid from day one considering all of the factors, and that was before we even realized just how bad this guy was going to perform.

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If it fails, it will be helpful in that the team will realize that it just can’t necessarily go buy a goalie and solve the problem. It should keep them from making the same mistake again. Maybe they’ll actually try to raise up a goalie form their own ranks. Or maybe they will play a system to suit the goalie.
If it fails, its not going to be helpful because we will be stuck with 5.6 million of dead weight for eight ****ing years. You simply cannot go out and throw contracts like this out there so willy nilly. Holmgren has a penchant for this. Throwing out NMC's and super long deals like its candy. And now already the Briere contract is starting to look like its going to be a major albatross. Enough with these contracts. Do it the smart way.

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I always hold up the Red Wings as a team that plays a system that makes the goalie look good. All the way back to the days of Tim Cheveldae and Bob Essensa; the Red Wings would succeed with Bryzgalov in net, and Bobrovsky.
Yeah, and whens the last time they dumped 51 million down the toilet on a goalie? Either you spend the money to tighten up the D or you spend the money to tighten up the goal. Theres only so much to be thrown around here. Signing bryzgalov is what directly caused the team to be unable to tighten up the forwards or D in their own zone. But if Bryzgalov plays up to expectations, that cancels out

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02-19-2012, 03:04 PM
  #44
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Where did this "Briere's contract sucks" thing come from? Dude has gotten .77 PPG for the last 3 season in the RS and 39 pts in 34 playoff games. That seems solid for a cap hit similar to Mikko Koivu.

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02-19-2012, 03:11 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Other than not being able to handle the pressure, what really can effect how the goaltender performs? We aren't talking about expecting him to save slam dunk cross ice pass goals. The guy is not even stopping 25 foot unscreened wristers. What does that have to do with a system? This isn't rocket science. Theres a certain degree of difficulty on a shot that is expected to be saved no matter what "system" the team in front is playing. Bryz has **** the bed. Plain and simple.
Yeah, he has confidence problems right now. That needs to change


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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Why? Its not like a ton of people, especially fans of western conference teams didn't say that this guy wasn't as good as a lot of people thought.
Look at Belfour's numbers when he went from Chicago to SJ:
1996-97 Chicago Blackhawks NHL 33 0 26 1966 88 4 1 2.69 11 15 6 858 0.907
1996-97 San Jose Sharks NHL 13 0 8 757 43 1 1 3.41 3 9 0 328 0.884

I am sure SJ thought he would not tank so badly. I am sure the Flyers thought that if Brz was that good for a bad team, with good defense revolving around a healthy Pronger, he would be even better.


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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
It didnt have to happen, because there were other options out there. Just because one method hasnt worked doesnt mean you go the complete opposite direction and make a boneheaded move. This contract was stupid from day one considering all of the factors, and that was before we even realized just how bad this guy was going to perform.
I am arguing from a media perspective. How many years did we hear from virtually EVERY media source "Flyers need to suck it up and get a #1 goalie!" That's been going on for over 15 years.
What other options should they have done in the offseason? ANY other move would have resulted in second guessing and questioning. Obviously THIS move has met with second guessing, but at least people can stop saying the Flyers need to spend big on a goalie. They did. It hasn't worked yet.


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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
If it fails, its not going to be helpful because we will be stuck with 5.6 million of dead weight for eight ****ing years. You simply cannot go out and throw contracts like this out there so willy nilly. Holmgren has a penchant for this. Throwing out NMC's and super long deals like its candy. And now already the Briere contract is starting to look like its going to be a major albatross. Enough with these contracts. Do it the smart way.
Well, I was thinking it would be helpful because I thought it might dissuade Holmgren from making stupid contracts. You would think that one day his stupid contracts will make him realize he shouldn't do it.

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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Yeah, and whens the last time they dumped 51 million down the toilet on a goalie? Either you spend the money to tighten up the D or you spend the money to tighten up the goal. Theres only so much to be thrown around here. Signing bryzgalov is what directly caused the team to be unable to tighten up the forwards or D in their own zone. But if Bryzgalov plays up to expectations, that cancels out
If the team spent money to tighten the D, what change would they have made in goal? None. Last season's goaltending wasn't good enough. I think they could have spent money on D and stuck with Bob, but once again, if Bob stunk, the same refrain would be heard, they need to spend for a #1 goalie.

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02-19-2012, 03:18 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by MRxBLACK View Post
Speculation: Why Carter Can Be Traded

Bryz (5.667) for Carter (5.273) (let's pretend these are equally toxic assets at the moment)
Carle (3.475) --> Picks --> Nabby (0.57)



This roster actually works cap-wise...

Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
JVR-Carter-Briere
Simmonds-Schenn-Voracek
Talbot-Couturier-Read

Coburn-Timonen
Meszaros-Kubina
Bourdon-Grossman

Nabokov
Bobrovsky


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02-19-2012, 03:26 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
What other options should they have done in the offseason? ANY other move would have resulted in second guessing and questioning. Obviously THIS move has met with second guessing, but at least people can stop saying the Flyers need to spend big on a goalie. They did. It hasn't worked yet.
Wait until July 1 and see how the market laid down.

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02-19-2012, 03:53 PM
  #48
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Can anyone make a reasonable case that we would be worse off with Bobrovsky starting and a scarecrow as back-up?

Isn't it sad that that's even a question?
this argument and this thread has been mutated and regurgitated and copied fifty thousand times. It boils down to some watch hockey and they see teams that win and those teams goalies get high praise. and the theres teams that lose, but they lose low scoring games (like the kings) and their goalies are still praised, then there are teams like us who are streaky. one game, our goalies play great, but the team can't score so its like a wash. we still somehow blame the goalie. then there are other games where we score and the goalie lets up a crap goal or two, which sucks. then we play games were everything is a mess. my point is this team changed so much over the last year you can't definitively blame one facet of the team as our entire problem. we've had poor play in goal, special teams has sucked, when we've had great games in goal we can't score, and the worst is key injuries. Bobrovsky could not have done any better against the teams bryz consistently played with the system being played in front. we take crazy penalties, our team takes high risk offensive plays and get caught low too many times and we create too many turnovers. were not a very well oiled machine. It's not real hard for me to understand why our goalies, especially bryzgalov are having problems finding their game. but whatever helps you comprehend things better. goalie lets in goal. goalie sucks. i guess that works too.

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02-19-2012, 04:01 PM
  #49
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Where did this "Briere's contract sucks" thing come from? Dude has gotten .77 PPG for the last 3 season in the RS and 39 pts in 34 playoff games. That seems solid for a cap hit similar to Mikko Koivu.
Because of the number of goals the opposition has scored due to his stupid penalties or lack of defensive play? It's not all about points scored.

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02-19-2012, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
People also said he was a system goaltender, playing behind a team filled with players most of whom would not make a Flyers roster. They replace him with Mike Smith, a career backup, and haven't missed a beat.
The same people that said the Flyers' defense was close to top of the league and still they could not bail out Bob nor Bouch last year?

This fanbase tends to overrate their own players and underestimate the opposition on a regular basis.

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