HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Nashville Predators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2-19-12 : Preds @ Stars - The Pot

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-19-2012, 04:22 PM
  #76
predfan24
Registered User
 
predfan24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Ellis has 2 PP points and only plays on the 2nd unit which rarely scores, so he really hasn't been that much of a help. Our PP is great this year because of the big boys.

Yeah I agree with beatmypecker that this is likely 1 of many trial runs. Ellis will get another shot.
If my math is right Ellis has a higher power play point rate when factoring in Power Play time on ice than Weber does. Without a doubt the 2nd unit is much more of a threat when Ellis is back on the point. With the current lineup I expect Boullion back on that 2nd PP which hurts the second unit bad.

I'm not surprised by this move Trotz always favors Veterans until they give him a reason not to and rightfully so. If the plan really is to go with Klein-Boullion then I wouldn't expect Ellis to be out of the lineup for long. He'll get another shot soon enough. I think over the next few weeks your going to see Ellis,Josi and Boullion scratched to see what kind of configuration really works for the D.

predfan24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 04:32 PM
  #77
Paranoid Android
ERMAHGERD
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 11,594
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
If my math is right Ellis has a higher power play point rate when factoring in Power Play time on ice than Weber does. Without a doubt the 2nd unit is much more of a threat when Ellis is back on the point. With the current lineup I expect Boullion back on that 2nd PP which hurts the second unit bad.

I'm not surprised by this move Trotz always favors Veterans until they give him a reason not to and rightfully so. If the plan really is to go with Klein-Boullion then I wouldn't expect Ellis to be out of the lineup for long. He'll get another shot soon enough. I think over the next few weeks your going to see Ellis,Josi and Boullion scratched to see what kind of configuration really works for the D.
You can't look at it that way because you are insinuating that Ellis should hold the top PP spot over Weber. Bottom line is of our 4 PP men, Ellis is the least important and he isn't a "major reason" why our PP is good this year.

I think I read somewhere that Kostitsyn will take over the 2nd unit point, not Bouillon.

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 04:34 PM
  #78
CantbeatzPekka
Weber/Jones/Josi
 
CantbeatzPekka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: gamehendge
Country: Somalia
Posts: 4,090
vCash: 500
i dont know about you guys but im really excited to see how hal does in his first game. We couldnt have picked up a better available defender for us.

CantbeatzPekka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 04:35 PM
  #79
klt2001
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 632
vCash: 500
http://blogs.tennessean.com/predators/

klt2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 04:49 PM
  #80
predfan24
Registered User
 
predfan24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
You can't look at it that way because you are insinuating that Ellis should hold the top PP spot over Weber. Bottom line is of our 4 PP men, Ellis is the least important and he isn't a "major reason" why our PP is good this year.

I think I read somewhere that Kostitsyn will take over the 2nd unit point, not Bouillon.
That's not what I'm insinuating. You were trying to make a case Ellis isn't an important PP member but in reality he is. The stats don't lie. Ellis is getting quite a bit more PP time than Josi so one can make the reasonable assumption that the coaches rate him the 3rd most important D-man for the PP.

Right now the coaches are hoping the increased stability of having more steady Vets outweighs the abilities that Ellis brings to the game. It might or it might not. Personally I don't care as long as we win. But there is no doubt the 2nd PP will suffer especially if Boullion is manning that point. Obviously the second unit isn't as important as the first but I don't think Trotz sends the 2nd unit out there with 40 seconds to a minute left on the PP expecting them just to be fodder wasting time until the PP is over.

Bottom line is just the threat of having Ellis's abilities on the PP makes the PP overall much more dangerous. Perhaps it won't be a big deal or maybe it will. Maybe SK will do a good job on the point. I know he did it in Junior and when he was with the Habs. After watching Sully at the point though I can't help but be a little apprehensive of forwards playing the PP point. I hope those fears are put to rest.

predfan24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 05:05 PM
  #81
I Will Son
An Army of One
 
I Will Son's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 8,076
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
That's not what I'm insinuating. You were trying to make a case Ellis isn't an important PP member but in reality he is. The stats don't lie. Ellis is getting quite a bit more PP time than Josi so one can make the reasonable assumption that the coaches rate him the 3rd most important D-man for the PP.

Right now the coaches are hoping the increased stability of having more steady Vets outweighs the abilities that Ellis brings to the game. It might or it might not. Personally I don't care as long as we win. But there is no doubt the 2nd PP will suffer especially if Boullion is manning that point. Obviously the second unit isn't as important as the first but I don't think Trotz sends the 2nd unit out there with 40 seconds to a minute left on the PP expecting them just to be fodder wasting time until the PP is over.

Bottom line is just the threat of having Ellis's abilities on the PP makes the PP overall much more dangerous. Perhaps it won't be a big deal or maybe it will. Maybe SK will do a good job on the point. I know he did it in Junior and when he was with the Habs. After watching Sully at the point though I can't help but be a little apprehensive of forwards playing the PP point. I hope those fears are put to rest.
Very good post. i agree fully.

I Will Son is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 05:06 PM
  #82
Paranoid Android
ERMAHGERD
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 11,594
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
That's not what I'm insinuating. You were trying to make a case Ellis isn't an important PP member but in reality he is. The stats don't lie. Ellis is getting quite a bit more PP time than Josi so one can make the reasonable assumption that the coaches rate him the 3rd most important D-man for the PP.

Right now the coaches are hoping the increased stability of having more steady Vets outweighs the abilities that Ellis brings to the game. It might or it might not. Personally I don't care as long as we win. But there is no doubt the 2nd PP will suffer especially if Boullion is manning that point. Obviously the second unit isn't as important as the first but I don't think Trotz sends the 2nd unit out there with 40 seconds to a minute left on the PP expecting them just to be fodder wasting time until the PP is over.

Bottom line is just the threat of having Ellis's abilities on the PP makes the PP overall much more dangerous. Perhaps it won't be a big deal or maybe it will. Maybe SK will do a good job on the point. I know he did it in Junior and when he was with the Habs. After watching Sully at the point though I can't help but be a little apprehensive of forwards playing the PP point. I hope those fears are put to rest.
Again, Ellis isn't a "major reason" for the overall success of our PP this year. You must be misreading my posts because I never said he wasn't important.

Weber and Suter are "major reasons." Josi and Ellis are "minor reasons."

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 05:43 PM
  #83
Shea Weber
Registered User
 
Shea Weber's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 607
vCash: 500
http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2012/2...ors-defensemen

Why scratch Ryan Ellis? Only a game removed from his 2 point performance against Chicago, it seems like a valid question. Assuming Weber, Suter, Klein, and now Gill are safe, what does Roman Josi (9 points, but -10) and Francis Bouillon (7 points in twice as many games), have over Ryan Ellis' 9 points and +8 rating?

Only half the stats tell half the tale, though. Let's look a little deeper at the Preds defenseman. I created this sortable table to compare each player's 5-on-5 performance:

By default, the table is sorted by quality of competition, in which Ellis ranks dead last. Trotz never uses Ellis against top lines, if he can help it. Another measure of strength of minutes is zone starts, or the percentage of times the player starts his shift in the offensive zone versus defensive zone. Here, Trotz has found another way of protecting Ellis, sending him out whenever the Preds get a whistle in the offensive zone.

Roman Josi, by contrast, has faced some of toughest minutes (42.7% zone starts). And their results reflect that difference. Josi is -10 on the season, because he does much of the team's defensive heavy lifting, along with Klein, Weber, and Suter. Ryan Ellis is +8 because he's used like a power play specialist, even at even-strength.

Should Ellis be punished for making the most of the opportunities given to him? That's a trickier question and one we debated with Cody Franson/Kevin Klein. But if Franson's time with the Predators taught us anything, if Trotz doesn't trust the player with a greater role, there's a reason, and he won't change his mind in the middle of a stretch run.

Carrying a power play specialist would have been defensible on past Predators teams, but this year Weber, Suter, and Josi have all been excellent on the man-up. And the acquisition of Gill for the PK frees up Weber and Suter for more PP minutes. Given that Trotz trusts Josi and Bouillon to help carry the load at even strength, scratching Ellis works to the benefit of everyone.

Shea Weber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 05:51 PM
  #84
cleangene
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful Bellevue
Posts: 965
vCash: 500
Stop all the second guessing: Fish is sick and won't play. Ellie is 7th D man dressed.

cleangene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 05:52 PM
  #85
Shea Weber
Registered User
 
Shea Weber's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 607
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VFL615 View Post
Not as much of a liability as Klein, Bulls, Hillen. Move simply does not make sense.
If you think Ellis is better in the Defensive Zone than Klein or Bouillon then you, sir, need glasses.

Shea Weber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 06:00 PM
  #86
CantbeatzPekka
Weber/Jones/Josi
 
CantbeatzPekka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: gamehendge
Country: Somalia
Posts: 4,090
vCash: 500
srteam anyone?

CantbeatzPekka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 06:01 PM
  #87
Predsrule
Registered User
 
Predsrule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantBeatMyPekka View Post
srteam anyone?
http://www.ilm-tv.info/channel1.php

Predsrule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 06:02 PM
  #88
klt2001
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 632
vCash: 500
Ellis is in since Mike is out. Trotz must have heard us all complaining....lol.

klt2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 06:05 PM
  #89
klt2001
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 632
vCash: 500
It's Kostitsyn, Erat & Smith on Fisher's line tonite.

klt2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 06:05 PM
  #90
CantbeatzPekka
Weber/Jones/Josi
 
CantbeatzPekka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: gamehendge
Country: Somalia
Posts: 4,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Predsrule View Post
just so happens all my normal ones dont seem to have it listed tonigh, thanks!

CantbeatzPekka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 06:05 PM
  #91
Paranoid Android
ERMAHGERD
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 11,594
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shea Weber View Post
http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2012/2...ors-defensemen

Why scratch Ryan Ellis? Only a game removed from his 2 point performance against Chicago, it seems like a valid question. Assuming Weber, Suter, Klein, and now Gill are safe, what does Roman Josi (9 points, but -10) and Francis Bouillon (7 points in twice as many games), have over Ryan Ellis' 9 points and +8 rating?

Only half the stats tell half the tale, though. Let's look a little deeper at the Preds defenseman. I created this sortable table to compare each player's 5-on-5 performance:

By default, the table is sorted by quality of competition, in which Ellis ranks dead last. Trotz never uses Ellis against top lines, if he can help it. Another measure of strength of minutes is zone starts, or the percentage of times the player starts his shift in the offensive zone versus defensive zone. Here, Trotz has found another way of protecting Ellis, sending him out whenever the Preds get a whistle in the offensive zone.

Roman Josi, by contrast, has faced some of toughest minutes (42.7% zone starts). And their results reflect that difference. Josi is -10 on the season, because he does much of the team's defensive heavy lifting, along with Klein, Weber, and Suter. Ryan Ellis is +8 because he's used like a power play specialist, even at even-strength.

Should Ellis be punished for making the most of the opportunities given to him? That's a trickier question and one we debated with Cody Franson/Kevin Klein. But if Franson's time with the Predators taught us anything, if Trotz doesn't trust the player with a greater role, there's a reason, and he won't change his mind in the middle of a stretch run.

Carrying a power play specialist would have been defensible on past Predators teams, but this year Weber, Suter, and Josi have all been excellent on the man-up. And the acquisition of Gill for the PK frees up Weber and Suter for more PP minutes. Given that Trotz trusts Josi and Bouillon to help carry the load at even strength, scratching Ellis works to the benefit of everyone.
Excellent article. Exactly why the old idiom "the stats don't lie" is in itself just that: a lie. Will Ellis be missed on the 2nd PP unit? Yes of course. But our overall PP success won't miss him too much because the 2nd unit is not crucial to our sucess and the 1st unit will be seeing more time.

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 06:06 PM
  #92
klt2001
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 632
vCash: 500
The game is on FOXSW also.

klt2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 06:10 PM
  #93
Paranoid Android
ERMAHGERD
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 11,594
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantBeatMyPekka View Post
just so happens all my normal ones dont seem to have it listed tonigh, thanks!
If you have cable there's a free preview of center ice going on

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 06:11 PM
  #94
Paranoid Android
ERMAHGERD
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 11,594
vCash: 500
Gill in his first shift already looks more physical than advertised by Hab fans

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 06:11 PM
  #95
CantbeatzPekka
Weber/Jones/Josi
 
CantbeatzPekka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: gamehendge
Country: Somalia
Posts: 4,090
vCash: 500
get rid of the puck KLEIN. trotz should have a 2 second rule with him and the puck

CantbeatzPekka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 06:12 PM
  #96
TMI
Mod Supervisor
 
TMI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 44,286
vCash: 500
Ok we can stop burning Trotz in effigy. Ellis is playing tonight. Seven d-men dressed.

TMI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 06:13 PM
  #97
I Will Son
An Army of One
 
I Will Son's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 8,076
vCash: 500
Ellis in due to Fisher being out. Wonder what his problem is.

I Will Son is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 06:13 PM
  #98
CantbeatzPekka
Weber/Jones/Josi
 
CantbeatzPekka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: gamehendge
Country: Somalia
Posts: 4,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
If you have cable there's a free preview of center ice going on
sweet didnt know that. here in colorado im just used to streaming the games

CantbeatzPekka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 06:15 PM
  #99
I Will Son
An Army of One
 
I Will Son's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 8,076
vCash: 500
SO CLOSE! Good shift by Leggy line

I Will Son is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2012, 06:15 PM
  #100
CantbeatzPekka
Weber/Jones/Josi
 
CantbeatzPekka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: gamehendge
Country: Somalia
Posts: 4,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Will Son View Post
Ellis in due to Fisher being out. Wonder what his problem is.
flu.

CantbeatzPekka is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:54 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.