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2011-2012 NBA/College Basketball Thread *Part II*

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:13 PM
  #26
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No, I'm saying he has his flaws. Just because he's good doesn't mean he's impeccable. I didn't see the game tonight but he's very one dimensional sometimes- he drives the paint and if he doesn't score, either loses the ball off the dribble or makes a bad pass. Just because we actually have a legitimate 1 doesn't mean we need to get rid of our depth.
He does not have many flaws.

After 9 games, the only two major flaws I would say are the, turn overs and free throw shooting.

He's not one dimensional. I don't how you say that. His points just don't come from attacking the basket because he can shoot too.


People need to keep in mind that Jeremy Lin is basically a rookie. He hasn't played much NBA basketball.
So you're going to see some mistakes.

Not a finished product by any means.

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02-19-2012, 06:21 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
He does not have many flaws.

After 9 games, the only two major flaws I would say are the, turn overs and free throw shooting.

He's not one dimensional. I don't how you say that. His points just don't come from attacking the basket because he can shoot too.


People need to keep in mind that Jeremy Lin is basically a rookie. He hasn't played much NBA basketball.
So you're going to see some mistakes.

Not a finished product by any means.
He's not a finished product, but watch the way he plays. 6 of his 9 turnovers last game were from driving the paint and losing the ball. He tries to force things when things aren't going the right way, which digs us a deeper hole. People say we're a legitimate team but I don't agree when we're having to pull off last minute wins against the Raptors and T-Wolves. We're on the way but some of our players need to grow and learn with this team. (Carmelo and STAT included.)

He's a good point guard, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he's a bad player, or that he's not a legitimate starter. He's arguably the teams best player. I'm saying, though, that this team can definitely improve a lot more, and Jeremy does too. The fans need to see that though.

I don't see how me criticizing his game means I don't think he'll improve. I just don't think we're contenders yet, which every Knick fan is so quick to say.

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02-19-2012, 06:27 PM
  #28
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Lin has Rondo like potential, but he just needs some time. He has the same things Rondo does and more. The sky is the limit with him, but he needs time to develop at this point. To me, his turnovers are because there is nobody else on the roster that will handle the ball later in the clock and at any point during the possession. When Melo comes back and Baron can spell him, expect his numbers to dip, as well as the turnovers. Can he be a 20pt-7ast guy with Melo out there? Sure, and that's what I can see him becoming.

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02-19-2012, 06:43 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
No, I'm saying he has his flaws. Just because he's good doesn't mean he's impeccable. I didn't see the game tonight but he's very one dimensional sometimes- he drives the paint and if he doesn't score, either loses the ball off the dribble or makes a bad pass. Just because we actually have a legitimate 1 doesn't mean we need to get rid of our depth.
He is 8-1 so far, first off.

Second, he is the complete opposite of a one dimensional player. He can shoot, drive, dish off the pick and roll, and kick the ball out to the open shooter. He is also a great leader.

Yeah he has a lot of TO's, but that is to be expected with someone who has the ball so much, and is always running the pick and roll, and plays in an uptempo offense. When Melo comes back, I guarantee his TOs go down, because he will have the ball a little less.

I don't know why your need to nitpick this kid. He is the real deal, obviously he will make mistakes and have bad games.

But look at what happened, he took a team without its 2 superstars, that were going down a path to make the playoffs, to the favorite to take down Miami/Chicago.

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02-19-2012, 06:48 PM
  #30
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oh, I heard you liked Jeremy Lin puns

Thats awesome...

Btw, I love Jeremy Lin...He along with our Rangers has re-energized the Garden

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:49 PM
  #31
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To me his turn overs are a result of, sometimes trying to make the difficult pass, leaving his feet, teams trapping him (which should go away when Melo comes back), not knowing teammates that well, lack of practice time and lack of experience.

It should all get better in time.

As far as I'm concerned, if he's going to score 20+ points and have 14 assist and 5 steals, play 46 minutes, 7 turnovers are fine.


With Melo, Amar'e, Novak, Smith etc... I expect him to score less and dish more. More like 15pts/13assit/4rb

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02-19-2012, 06:51 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Lin has Rondo like potential, but he just needs some time. He has the same things Rondo does and more. The sky is the limit with him, but he needs time to develop at this point. To me, his turnovers are because there is nobody else on the roster that will handle the ball later in the clock and at any point during the possession. When Melo comes back and Baron can spell him, expect his numbers to dip, as well as the turnovers. Can he be a 20pt-7ast guy with Melo out there? Sure, and that's what I can see him becoming.
I have had this discussion with others on a Knicks forum...I really think Lin's game resembles the most of a Tony Parker/Steve Nash fusion.

He has Parker's offensive ability and the way he can take over the game it can lead and impact this team is the same as when Parker won the Finals MVP. However, parker was not this good of a passer and outside shooter...That's where Nash's IQ, vision, passing comes in.

Rondo's fire is in Lin also, but Rondo sucks from the outside and is probably better in the paint.

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02-19-2012, 07:24 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
He is 8-1 so far, first off.

Second, he is the complete opposite of a one dimensional player. He can shoot, drive, dish off the pick and roll, and kick the ball out to the open shooter. He is also a great leader.

Yeah he has a lot of TO's, but that is to be expected with someone who has the ball so much, and is always running the pick and roll, and plays in an uptempo offense. When Melo comes back, I guarantee his TOs go down, because he will have the ball a little less.

I don't know why your need to nitpick this kid. He is the real deal, obviously he will make mistakes and have bad games.

But look at what happened, he took a team without its 2 superstars, that were going down a path to make the playoffs, to the favorite to take down Miami/Chicago.
Dishing the pick and roll and going to the outside don't constitute different dimensions. He can pass (even with 7 turnovers a game.)

He's a scoring point guard who turns the ball over a decent amount. Why does this get you guys upset? IT'S TRUE. There is no way you can factually disagree with me. He's good at what he does but when teams can lock him down he's going to have 9 turnovers a night.

All i'm doing is saying people need to realize we're not contenders right now. The Knicks are .500 and yet people are saying we're the odds on favorites to upset Miami. How? That's nuts.

Great leader? Don't know where this is coming from either. He's not a malcontent but I don't know where great leader is coming from. He buys into the system and does his job. He's not Willis Reed, guys.


And no, the TEAM is 8-1. And we almost lost against two really ****** teams. Without Chandler's immaculate defense, we probably lose some games. Without Shumpert playing D, we lose. Without Landry playing like Landry, we lose. It's a team effort. If anything this goes to show everybody who wanted to fire D'Antoni is stupid, not that Lin is a phenom.

I'm NOT nitpicking. Saying what flaws a player has isn't nitpicking, its REALITY. I really like the guy and i'm glad we have somebody who has a brain and can play the 1 in D'antoni's system, but I heard the same **** when I started saying Carmelo wasn't going to do anything with this team. We're .500. People need to taper back their expectations with this team.

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02-19-2012, 07:42 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
He's not a finished product, but watch the way he plays. 6 of his 9 turnovers last game were from driving the paint and losing the ball. He tries to force things when things aren't going the right way, which digs us a deeper hole. People say we're a legitimate team but I don't agree when we're having to pull off last minute wins against the Raptors and T-Wolves. We're on the way but some of our players need to grow and learn with this team. (Carmelo and STAT included.)

He's a good point guard, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he's a bad player, or that he's not a legitimate starter. He's arguably the teams best player. I'm saying, though, that this team can definitely improve a lot more, and Jeremy does too. The fans need to see that though.

I don't see how me criticizing his game means I don't think he'll improve. I just don't think we're contenders yet, which every Knick fan is so quick to say.

He's been schooling very good defenders with relative ease.

The one problem with Lin is very fixable. Extremely fixable. Today, his passes were crisp, his timing was excellent and his bounce passes were chest high.

The foul shooting is definitely a concern for the whole team. My only other worry is fatigue, but the whole league probably feels it right now.

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02-19-2012, 07:48 PM
  #35
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The turnovers aren't much of an issue, and I'd expect them to decrease as the season goes along. He's a sophomore that hasn't even started 10 games, playing in the biggest basketball market, suddenly playing 40 minutes per night. It's literally impossible to do what he's doing at this point in his career any better than he has done it. As he gains even more confidence and becomes more comfortable with his teammates, the turnovers will decrease as well.

He's as far from one-dimensional as a player can be. He may have one dimension of his game that he struggles with, but that's about the only time that phrase should ever be associated with Lin.

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02-19-2012, 08:00 PM
  #36
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He's not a leader blueshirtblitz? Really? Watch the game today before you open your nitpicking mouth. The kid has played 9 games and is better than 80% of the leagues point guards if not more. And he hasn't even started yet. The Mavericks asphyxiated him today and he still wrecked their defense, inside outside. The turnovers don't matter when he gets rebounds and steals the way he does. And the argument that it's his fault the Knicks are .500 and not contenders is asinine. They would be a lottery team without him during that span. Even now there is no bigger example than today as when Jeremy Lin was resting the team blew a 12 point lead almost immediately because they could not generate any sort of competent offense without him. And everyone is playing better because they have a field general now. All of a sudden with JR Smith, Davis, Novak, and pushing Shumpert and/or Fields into the bench the team looks really deep. Oh yeah, Fields looks like a good player again because of Lin. As does everyone else. The center has an offensive game. Please dude common. I bet you are nitpicking the Rangers play too.

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02-19-2012, 08:20 PM
  #37
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He's not a leader blueshirtblitz? Really? Watch the game today before you open your nitpicking mouth. The kid has played 9 games and is better than 80% of the leagues point guards if not more. And he hasn't even started yet. The Mavericks asphyxiated him today and he still wrecked their defense, inside outside. The turnovers don't matter when he gets rebounds and steals the way he does. And the argument that it's his fault the Knicks are .500 and not contenders is asinine. They would be a lottery team without him during that span. Even now there is no bigger example than today as when Jeremy Lin was resting the team blew a 12 point lead almost immediately because they could not generate any sort of competent offense without him. And everyone is playing better because they have a field general now. All of a sudden with JR Smith, Davis, Novak, and pushing Shumpert and/or Fields into the bench the team looks really deep. Oh yeah, Fields looks like a good player again because of Lin. As does everyone else. The center has an offensive game. Please dude common. I bet you are nitpicking the Rangers play too.


He hates Carmelo too...


Anyway, yeah they're going to be deep:

Chandler - Jeffries
Stoudemire - Harrellson
Anthony - Shumpert/Novak
Fields - Smith
Lin - Davis

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02-19-2012, 08:41 PM
  #38
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He hates Carmelo too...


Anyway, yeah they're going to be deep:

Chandler - Jeffries
Stoudemire - Harrellson
Anthony - Shumpert/Novak
Fields - Smith
Lin - Davis
hard to put harrellson back in the rotation if novak shoots the way he has

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02-19-2012, 08:44 PM
  #39
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http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/2/1...ws-ball-at-ref

Rondo's done for a while. Good.

Buck Foston.

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02-19-2012, 09:36 PM
  #40
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I must say I'm impressed with Denver. Ever since I called them mediocre during a long losing streak, they've picked up wins in some really tough places.

I dont know what happened tonight. Westbrook and Durant are absolutely crushing them after being down by a bunch.

Almost 80 combined points.

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02-19-2012, 10:17 PM
  #41
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What a game in OKC tonight.

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02-19-2012, 10:27 PM
  #42
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And by one dimensional, I meant that he drives the paint and forces plays when he can't score from there. That's how he had 9 turnovers against NOLA. That's how he's consistently had 7-8 turnovers a game. He needs to work on that. That's how MOST of his turnovers happen. Maybe one dimensional wasn't the right word, but that's what I meant.

Sorry for not bowing down to Linsanity and not remembering that he's entirely perfect and the .500 Knicks are the best team in the NBA now. Can't wait till Carmelo carries us to the Finals!

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02-20-2012, 12:08 AM
  #43
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And by one dimensional, I meant that he drives the paint and forces plays when he can't score from there. That's how he had 9 turnovers against NOLA. That's how he's consistently had 7-8 turnovers a game. He needs to work on that. That's how MOST of his turnovers happen. Maybe one dimensional wasn't the right word, but that's what I meant.

Sorry for not bowing down to Linsanity and not remembering that he's entirely perfect and the .500 Knicks are the best team in the NBA now. Can't wait till Carmelo carries us to the Finals!
Please. This is the same sort of thing we see in the Rangers threads where people skew negative so that they can say they're the "rational voice" or appear knowledgeable.

The team has been amazing since he's been there. This is not the ".500 Knicks." This is the 8-1 Knicks - who have had one letdown loss against NOLA, but has won every other game since he's been playing, including wins against the Lakers and the defending champs/best defensive team in the league. Magic Johnson thinks he's a legit star at the point and Willis Reed said the player he most reminds him of is Clyde. That's good enough for me.

No player is perfect and of course he does have areas where he can improve. Namely, his foul shooting, learning to adjust to NBA defensive schemes he hasn't seen before and occasionally not trying to force it when the entire defense is keying on him. I actually think he's got a pretty good left, but he could use it more. On defense, he's very good, but he does need help against the fastest players in the league (then again, who doesn't?).

But to say that the kid is one dimensional...? Ridiculous. He can penetrate, he can shoot the three, he can finish at the rim, he has a great mid range game (which is a true differentiator as almost no one has that anymore), he passes well off the kick, around the perimeter and on the lob. He plays good physical defense, boxes out well for a PG and gets lots of steals.

As to the turnovers, however, I'm sorry, but the location has less to do with it than the fact that he's freakin' exhausted - and that he's adjusting to new defenses almost daily. Part of what makes him so special is that he can get to those very areas in the paint. What causes the turnovers is, yes, occasionally that he gets himself trapped - but much more often than not, the fact that he gets worn down and moves he could make earlier on he doesn't have the stamina to make later.

The kid is a story unlike any I've ever seen before - and the best thing to happen to the Knicks since a ping pong ball bounced the right way nearly 30 years ago. Can't we all just enjoy it?

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02-20-2012, 12:29 AM
  #44
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And by one dimensional, I meant that he drives the paint and forces plays when he can't score from there. That's how he had 9 turnovers against NOLA. That's how he's consistently had 7-8 turnovers a game. He needs to work on that. That's how MOST of his turnovers happen. Maybe one dimensional wasn't the right word, but that's what I meant.

Sorry for not bowing down to Linsanity and not remembering that he's entirely perfect and the .500 Knicks are the best team in the NBA now. Can't wait till Carmelo carries us to the Finals!
He's getting trapped, doubled, pressure almost EVERY play, at least today he was.

Do you know how many PGs consistently get that? Basically CP3, Rose, Nash.

It is easy to rack up TOs when you are logging 40+ mins and playing in a system where you have the ball in your hands pretty much 90% of the time each possession. Once Melo comes back, teams will not be able to play D on Lin like they've been playing.

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02-20-2012, 12:37 AM
  #45
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Best #Lin sign yet: a girl today at MSG "I want you LIN side me!"

Surprised it wasn't done sooner to be honest

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02-20-2012, 12:44 AM
  #46
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The amount of games I watched this year (6) has absolutely smashed last years (1) and the year before (0). Thank you Jeremy Lin.

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02-20-2012, 12:55 AM
  #47
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I remember seeing on ESPN that he scored or assisted 36 of the Knicks' 56 points in the second half. When you have the ball in your hands as much as he does, you're going to make turnovers. He's a young point guard who is the focal point of an offense, so mistakes will happen. Granted, some of his passes are pretty crappy, but he's usually on the money and comes up when he need him to. Russell Westbrook had turnover problems this year too, probably just as bad.

He's not the perfect point guard, but he's a hell of a lot better than Douglas and Bibby combined. What matters most is our record. Hopefully Melo can find a way to play his game and still let Lin play his. Then we can make some real noise.

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02-20-2012, 07:57 AM
  #48
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I finally saw a screencap of the controversial headline at ESPN.com, after the Knicks lost to the Hornets. Now, I am the last person to be PC, but, what were they thinking at ESPN? You cannot do that.

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02-20-2012, 10:00 AM
  #49
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I finally saw a screencap of the controversial headline at ESPN.com, after the Knicks lost to the Hornets. Now, I am the last person to be PC, but, what were they thinking at ESPN? You cannot do that.
Yeah it looks like the ESPN employees responsible got fired/suspended.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7...y-lin-comments

I also think society is becoming way too PC.

But for example if there was a headline like that making fun of someone like Vinny Del Negro (Clippers coach) and Italians I'd be pretty pissed off.

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02-20-2012, 10:59 AM
  #50
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Yeah it looks like the ESPN employees responsible got fired/suspended.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7...y-lin-comments

I also think society is becoming way too PC.

But for example if there was a headline like that making fun of someone like Vinny Del Negro (Clippers coach) and Italians I'd be pretty pissed off.
Take it a step further - imagine if it was against African-Americans. Can you imagine if the "N" word had somehow slipped by? It'd be the lead story on CNN.

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