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01-21-2012, 09:38 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I agree that he's very stubborn and I think we all saw on 24/7 that Torts is just a better coach. I like Lavi but last season he started doing questionable things and it's not like he's changed much this year. I wish he'd move Jagr off the top line for a couple of games and see how someone else does in his spot. But it's not just on Lavi, the players are also responsible as is Holmgren. The team defense is brutal and needs to be addressed. Once the playoffs arrive you're not going to be scoring 4 or 5 goals per game on a consistent basis.
Not so sure Torts is a "better" coach, but he certainly has a one up on Lavy with a very steady, dependable, unshakable goal tender ?....A great goalie makes any coach look much better.....Don't get me wrong, Torts is a fine coach, but so is Lavy in my opinion.

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01-21-2012, 09:39 AM
  #52
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We have a team where 7 rookies are in the lineup, and 6 points out of being the #1 team in the league, with our $51M goalie among the worst players in the league, and without our Hall of Fame defenseman for the last 5 months of the season. Yet, here is a thread where it's claimed that the team is poorly coached.
Thank you for bringing logic to this thread ! Well said !

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01-21-2012, 10:15 AM
  #53
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Ya.. dont know if I agree on Torts being the better coach. Honestly, I kind of like the way Lavy coaches though. Not a big fan of yelling at your team 24/7.

That being said, I do think Lavy is easily a better coach than Stevens (can we say actually having a system and being in shape?) but him not being able to cope with in-game change isnt good. Other coaches take advantage of this.

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01-21-2012, 10:18 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I don't have a problem with the job Laviolette has done so far. As others have pointed out, Laviolette has had to make do with some traumatic injuries, a bunch of new players, and an all world goalie who has been terrible. As a result, this is a team still trying to find it's identity.

My only complaint with Laviolette so far has been his constant changing of lines 2 and 3 and his handling of Couturier and Schenn. I know people are going to say that both guys are young and they want to limit their minutes yada yada yada. But these aren't just two regular rookie players - these are exceptionally talented rookie players and one of them was even touted as the best prospect not playing in the NHL. Laviolette's handling of Couturier's ice time has been deplorable and he's failed to put Schenn in a position to succeed. That falls squarely on Peter's shoulders.

Schenn has also had some unworldly expectations placed on his shoulders that the Flyers have failed to shield him from. In all fairness, they needed to give Schenn the Giroux treatment - leave him in the AHL for half a season to tear it up and then make room for him 35 games into the season.

I will say this in Peter's defense though - Matt Read has been fantastic, Erik Gustafsson looks like he's going to be a solid top four contributor, and Marc Andre Bourdon has played very well and is learning to play within his boundaries. On top of it, Jakub Voracek has become one of the better two way players under Laviolette's watch (if Laviolette could only help Voracek develop a better shot, he'd be a top line winger) and the veterans seem to respond to him.

I have no qualms with the job Laviolette has done and it's clear that his mission this year isn't about winning the Stanley Cup, it's about developing young players and keeping the environment competitive. I'd say he's done a fantastic job on that part.

One last thing - Laviolette really needs to find out how to utilize Briere and find a way to get him going again.
100% agreed. I think 40-50 games in the AHL would have done some good adjustment for Schenn, and lower the expectations that he probably feels on him. Worked out for Giroux pretty well.

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01-21-2012, 11:09 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
No, I think I'll just say this again. With one provision:

*READ CAREFULLY*

If you want to say Lavi should be blamed for the same things Stevens was fine, but you defended Stevens against all of those claims. If it wasn't his fault then how is it Lavi's now?

Unless you've changed your opinion on Stevens, your opinion should be the same as it was then: these issues are on the players and the captain. If your opinion has not changed then you're just trying to start a petty argument on the internet. And like I said before, I think you're a little to old to be doing something like that.
Can I flip the same thing back around at you?

If poor breakouts and neutral zone sloppiness and bad penalties and lackluster effort and surrendering rampant odd man opportunities and inability to hold leads and inconsistent play was grounds for firing the coach three years ago, why is it heresy to merely mention the coach's name now?

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01-21-2012, 11:28 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Can I flip the same thing back around at you?

If poor breakouts and neutral zone sloppiness and bad penalties and lackluster effort and surrendering rampant odd man opportunities and inability to hold leads and inconsistent play was grounds for firing the coach three years ago, why is it heresy to merely mention the coach's name now?
I think the firing of Stevens had to do with a few other things besides what you mentioned....Like his "coddling" a few "superstars" and perhaps that the club was seriously under achieving and perhaps fixing to miss the playoffs if things were not addressed quickly and HARSHLY ! I never disliked Stevens etc, but i think we all need to admit that LAVY righted the ship and put us in a great position to contend for the cup....It was one helluva spring for all of us ?....
I think too many folks myself included at times are a little too quick with their knee jerk reactions after a bad game here and there, or a 2 or 3 game losing streak, or why is Couts only playing 8 minutes or 12 minutes etc ?........Maybe Couts looks like such a dominant player for that reason ? He is fresh, not worn down, and ready for duty when there is an important PK etc ? Whats really a positive about Lavy is the great job he and his staff have done with the rookies, who of late seem to be carrying this club while some of our vets are licking their wounds, slumping etc...

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01-21-2012, 01:16 PM
  #57
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When Stevens was fired, the team was ready to win the Cup that year.


This year, as much as Comcast tries to peddle lines, they're not.

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01-23-2012, 01:19 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SgtJoseph View Post
I think the firing of Stevens had to do with a few other things besides what you mentioned....Like his "coddling" a few "superstars" and perhaps that the club was seriously under achieving and perhaps fixing to miss the playoffs if things were not addressed quickly and HARSHLY !
Harshness by coaches is overrated, in my opinion. Sometimes you get a jump when you go from Good Cop to Bad Cop but it rarely lasts.

Looking at Laviolette himself, he allegedly did great things at the Island. But then they backsludded. Did they turn him off?

Then he was totally awesome at Carolina!!!

For one year. Then they missed the playoffs two straight years. Did they turn him off?

Anyway, I don't want Laviolette to be fired.

I just thought it is time to talk about whether he is getting it done or not when it is clear that so many of the pathologies that indicate bad coaching have crept into prominence of late.

That's all.

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01-23-2012, 01:37 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
When Stevens was fired, the team was ready to win the Cup that year.


This year, as much as Comcast tries to peddle lines, they're not.
I thought I was the only one to really take notice in that.

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01-23-2012, 01:52 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
I just thought it is time to talk about whether he is getting it done or not when it is clear that so many of the pathologies that indicate bad coaching have crept into prominence of late.

That's all.
Bad coaching has crept into a team that lost it's captain and defensive anchor when their goalie, the man getting paid millions of dollars to finally take the pressure off of the skaters that had carried this team for the last 4-5 years, has decided its just about time for him to start sucking and the rest of the loose ends of this team are being held together by rookies who not only make up the core defensive unit among forwards but are also logging chunks of minutes on the blueline?

Oh yeah...and we're four points out of 1st place...

Claiming that we are poorly coached at this point is absurd based on Laviolette's track record, based on visual evidence on 24/7 among other things, and based on how this extremely young team is playing at such a high level despite adversity.

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01-23-2012, 01:57 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Bad coaching has crept into a team that lost it's captain and defensive anchor when their goalie, the man getting paid millions of dollars to finally take the pressure off of the skaters that had carried this team for the last 4-5 years, has decided its just about time for him to start sucking and the rest of the loose ends of this team are being held together by rookies who not only make up the core defensive unit among forwards but are also logging chunks of minutes on the blueline?

Oh yeah...and we're four points out of 1st place...

Claiming that we are poorly coached at this point is absurd based on Laviolette's track record, based on visual evidence on 24/7 among other things, and based on how this extremely young team is playing at such a high level despite adversity.
I agree with all the above.

If we had more consistent goaltending and a healthy Pronger, this team would be slugging it out with NYR for top rights to the EC. (something I didn't think we had a dream of doing at the beginning of the season)

When healthy, I certainly believe we are a better club than Boston sans goaltending. Their stats are way padded. Have run up the score against a bunch of mediocre and injury depleted teams and have a lousy .500% win loss ratio against the top 10 seeds in the league.

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01-23-2012, 02:01 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
I agree with all the above.

If we had more consistent goaltending and a healthy Pronger, this team would be slugging it out with NYR for top rights to the EC. (something I didn't think we had a dream of doing at the beginning of the season)

When healthy, I certainly believe we are a better club than Boston sans goaltending. Their stats are way padded. Have run up the score against a bunch of mediocre and injury depleted teams and have a lousy .500% win loss ratio against the top 10 seeds in the league.
If we had more consistent goaltending and a healthy Pronger we wouldn't just be slugging it out with NYR and BOS, we'd be laughing at them from the front of the pack.

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01-23-2012, 02:07 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
If we had more consistent goaltending and a healthy Pronger we wouldn't just be slugging it out with NYR and BOS, we'd be laughing at them from the front of the pack.
Depressing dude. Just depressing.

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01-23-2012, 02:11 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I agree that he's very stubborn and I think we all saw on 24/7 that Torts is just a better coach. I like Lavi but last season he started doing questionable things and it's not like he's changed much this year. I wish he'd move Jagr off the top line for a couple of games and see how someone else does in his spot. But it's not just on Lavi, the players are also responsible as is Holmgren. The team defense is brutal and needs to be addressed. Once the playoffs arrive you're not going to be scoring 4 or 5 goals per game on a consistent basis.
Ah, No we did not!!!

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01-23-2012, 02:13 PM
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If we had more consistent goaltending and a healthy Pronger we wouldn't just be slugging it out with NYR and BOS, we'd be laughing at them from the front of the pack.
Well said. How many rookies in yesterday's line-up? And we went toe to toe with the league's best.

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01-23-2012, 02:15 PM
  #66
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Well said. How many rookies in yesterday's line-up? And we went toe to toe with the league's best.
so true

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01-23-2012, 02:16 PM
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Well said. How many rookies in yesterday's line-up? And we went toe to toe with the league's best.
Well all team's theoretically can play the "what if" game. I happen to think with Bryzgalov playing like MFL and Pronger's career possibly over that we probably win that game.

Props to our rookies for playing so well yesterday and all this year for that matter.

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01-23-2012, 06:11 PM
  #68
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Well said. How many rookies in yesterday's line-up? And we went toe to toe with the league's best.
Sounds like they're very well coached.

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01-23-2012, 07:50 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Ya.. dont know if I agree on Torts being the better coach. Honestly, I kind of like the way Lavy coaches though. Not a big fan of yelling at your team 24/7.

That being said, I do think Lavy is easily a better coach than Stevens (can we say actually having a system and being in shape?) but him not being able to cope with in-game change isnt good. Other coaches take advantage of this.
I don't know if I think Torts is a better coach as well, but I think the yelling and screaming part tends to get a bit overplayed. There were plenty of moments in 24/7 where he was, I guess more reasonable with his message.


If I were King of the World, I don't know I would fire Lavy for Torts, but if Lavy were fired and Torts were available, that's someone who I'd want to replace him. Either him or Babcock, maybe Carlyle. The next coach of this team though is going to make sure everyone gets a gold star.

Keep in mind, the only reason Torts was fired from Tampa Bay was because those two circus freaks Oren Koules and Len Barrie wanted to sell Barry Melrose for whatever reason.

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01-23-2012, 08:26 PM
  #70
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We have a team where 7 rookies are in the lineup, and 6 points out of being the #1 team in the league, with our $51M goalie among the worst players in the league, and without our Hall of Fame defenseman for the last 5 months of the season. Yet, here is a thread where it's claimed that the team is poorly coached.
thank you end of thread!!! Lavy is a good coach I was stoked as hell when they fired Stevens I can't stand an emotionless coach, I don't think it will ever work here in Philly, I love the way Lavy is handling the rookies, keep it up Pete you've got my backing

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01-30-2012, 01:41 PM
  #71
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Hopefully they will work on closing games over the break so we won't need to question Laviolette and we can all give him our backing.

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01-30-2012, 08:26 PM
  #72
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If Laviolette doesn't work out we could give this a shot http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=7335 . He's had more hockey experience than anyone, and has had spots with both the Phantoms and the Flyers.

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02-19-2012, 08:42 PM
  #73
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I didn't even realize until watching the DVR today that the Flyers got outshot 14-2 in the first ten minutes of the third period on Saturday.

So two teams in a historic and heated division rivalry with nearly identical records go into their respective locker rooms tied 3-3 after two periods, then one comes out and rages, while the other looks like they spent the intermission chasing Valiums with Old Milwaukee.

14-2!!!!!

It's time to question whether this guy has control any longer. Or if his control is really worth anything. That first part of the third period was an embarrassment.

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02-19-2012, 08:48 PM
  #74
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Lavy needs to go! He and his message has ran its course!

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02-19-2012, 09:28 PM
  #75
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I think people look at coaches way to black and white. The road to a cup is not a loan 1 way road. It can be reached through many different routes.

Many different systems can win a cup. But each system requires a capable coach as well as a group of players that are fit for the system and their roles as well as chemistry not only with their teammates but the coach.

Torts is a good coach but keep in mind player polls repeatedly have him voted as the coach players least want to play for. His overly aggressive ball busting style also ran out of favor in Tampa Bay when numerous players on his roster simply got sick of it well after they had won a cup.

Ether way Lavi isn't the issue. If anything he has done a great job getting a lot out of a team that has numerous raw developed prospects and getting the most out of guys like Hartnell and Simmonds (keep in mind Hartnell started off terribly and many wanted him traded or cut in ice time but he moved him up to line 1 and we know the rest).

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