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All Purpose Erik Karlsson Thread

View Poll Results: Does karlsson break the senators points record for a defenseman?
Yes 180 93.26%
No 13 6.74%
Voters: 193. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-15-2012, 12:05 PM
  #101
Northern Neighbour
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Didn't suggest he was...but it is his mentor.

This discussion started because of a claim Karlsson's camp is looking favourably at a shorter deal where he is compensated more than otherwise in order to make sure he's an RFA after his next deal. Whether that's true or not, I don't know.

You suggested he's not going to take less years just to be nice and get nothing in return, that's very likely true....but no one's suggesting he isn't compensated extra if he were to do that.
Fair enough. I just would be awfully surprised if Karlsson settled on a 3-year deal that averaged $5M to $5.5M as some have suggested. I think it'll take more - at least $6.5M and possibly higher. Karlsson's camp is also risking that a future CBA won't change players' contracts in the future, but that's not a risk I would take. Take the long-term, guaranteed money now if it's available.

I would also be surprised that the Sens would want to only sign Karlsson to a three-year deal since he's a key player for the team both in the present and the future. A 3-year deal has several risks, including a higher cap hit and Karlsson's next contract being a much higher cap hit and/or a really long-term deal (e.g., 10 or more years) that could hurt the team in the long run.

And like for Karlsson, there's also the risk of further changes to the CBA and how R/FAs are handled. For instance, what if the UFA qualifications are reduced (unlikely but you never know) or compensation to sign RFAs is reduced, Karlsson could be with another team in 3 years.


Last edited by Northern Neighbour: 02-15-2012 at 12:17 PM.
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Old
02-15-2012, 12:10 PM
  #102
Minister of Offence
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And that's fair.

I've said this going back a while, we're gonna get to know Erik Karlsson a little more after this deal is done. I can only expect the Sens will try to keep him in RFA years with this deal and if Karlsson obliges...it tells you that he's probably in control of his relationship with his representatives and that he's even more likely than we ever thought to have realistic hopes of staying here very long-term.

That's not to say all bets are off of him staying over 10-15 years here if he wants the long-term deal (it's a long-term deal after all)....it just tells you that down the line we may have to give him the 7 million over long term rather than 6-6.5 when his deal is up again.

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02-15-2012, 12:12 PM
  #103
SenzZen
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Food for thought. Show me a greedy Swede (cap hits).


Sedins $6.1M
Backstrom $6.7M
Lundqvist $6.875M
Lidstrom $6.2M
Zetterberg $6.083M
Franzen $3.95M
Enstrom $3.75M
Alfredsson $4.875M
Eriksson $4.25M

I like our chances of signing him to a palatable deal.

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Old
02-15-2012, 12:16 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
Food for thought. Show me a greedy Swede (cap hits).


Sedins $6.1M
Backstrom $6.7M
Lundqvist $6.875M
Lidstrom $6.2M
Zetterberg $6.083M
Franzen $3.95M
Enstrom $3.75M
Alfredsson $4.875M
Eriksson $4.25M

I like our chances of signing him to a palatable deal.
Wonder what the richest deals per year that have been signed by Swedes?

Coming off

2002-2003: 106 points in 75 games
2003-2004: 55 points in 39 games
Lockout
Signed 2 years at 5.75 mil cap hit

Peter Forsberg

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Old
02-15-2012, 12:20 PM
  #105
Northern Neighbour
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Wonder what the richest deals per year that have been signed by Swedes?
Lidstrom has had contracts that averaged $7.6M and $7.45M annually.

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Old
02-15-2012, 12:21 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
Lidstrom has had contracts that averaged $7.6M and $7.45M annually.
Which after his career was still basically a discount.

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02-15-2012, 12:26 PM
  #107
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I don't understand...

Usually...
shorter term=more money
longer term=less money

But for us, if we want to go long term, we'll be eating UFA years so we have to pay up? and if we want to go short term, we'll have to also pay up?

If short term is more money per year in this case, then wouldn't it make sense to sign him long term to save on the cap hit? It would be extremely stupid of us to sign him to an expensive short term deal, only to pay him a lot more on his next contract. That way we aren't saving anywhere.

I hope if he signs for an expensive 3 year deal, it means he's going to go easy on us on his next contract. If not, then i don't see the point of this.

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02-15-2012, 12:26 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Which after his career was still basically a discount.
Not really given the cap at the time.

In 2006-07, the cap was $44M and Lidstrom had a cap hit of $7.6M. That's pretty close to the maximum value a player can have, and Lidstrom's cap hit was among the highest in the league (may actually have been the highest).

In 2008-09 at the age of 38 and coming off a so-so season, he still received a 2-year, $14.9M contract ($7.45M cap hit). The cap was $56.7M.

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02-15-2012, 12:50 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
Not really given the cap at the time.

In 2006-07, the cap was $44M and Lidstrom had a cap hit of $7.6M. That's pretty close to the maximum value a player can have, and Lidstrom's cap hit was among the highest in the league (may actually have been the highest).

In 2008-09 at the age of 38 and coming off a so-so season, he still received a 2-year, $14.9M contract ($7.45M cap hit). The cap was $56.7M.
You were paying for the 2nd best defensemen of all time.

It's interesting to note regardless Swedes tend to take less than they could take.

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02-15-2012, 12:50 PM
  #110
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I guess Murray has to look at staggering his contracts so he does not get a Redden vs Chara setup. He probably does not want a Karlsson vs Spezza year; unless he's sure he can do both.

My guess is 6 years at 38M. Still leaves him under 30 for his next one and we will have decided on Spezza by then.

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02-15-2012, 01:05 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
Not really given the cap at the time.

In 2006-07, the cap was $44M and Lidstrom had a cap hit of $7.6M. That's pretty close to the maximum value a player can have, and Lidstrom's cap hit was among the highest in the league (may actually have been the highest).

In 2008-09 at the age of 38 and coming off a so-so season, he still received a 2-year, $14.9M contract ($7.45M cap hit). The cap was $56.7M.
Yeah really, at any time.

Nicklas. Lidstrom. He could have signed somewhere else for more money.

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02-19-2012, 04:25 PM
  #112
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Us swedes arn't greedy... And I dont think EK will butt**** you either...

And what's this talk about Lidström having a huge contract at age 38? He's worth every dime.

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02-19-2012, 11:41 PM
  #113
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Us swedes arn't greedy... And I dont think EK will butt**** you either...

And what's this talk about Lidström having a huge contract at age 38? He's worth every dime.
Generalizing way too much.

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Old
02-19-2012, 11:46 PM
  #114
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I don't see how he can get less than Doughty. He'll get 6.5 if he takes a discount. Otherwise it's Doughty money or north.

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02-19-2012, 11:51 PM
  #115
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I don't see how he can get less than Doughty. He'll get 6.5 if he takes a discount. Otherwise it's Doughty money or north.
Doughty held out for that money.

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02-20-2012, 12:01 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Doughty held out for that money.
Maybe that's his actual market value and VLomb was low balling him for a while. Regardless the Karlsson camp may use it as a comparable. Maybe Karlsson will want more than Spezza like Doughty over Kopitar? If Karlsson gets a Norris nomination, the Sens are toast. A top 3 D at his age deserves 7+ on a long term deal. Not so sure LA overpaid based on what Doughty had accomplished.

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02-20-2012, 12:12 AM
  #117
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Hopefully, he takes under 7m 3 years. I love Karlsson , and I think he is HUGE part of the reason the Sens are even in the playoff discussion , however , it just wouldn't feel right paying ANY 21 year old more than 5 m on a long term (3 or more years) deal. I like the idea of having him as an RFA after 3 years. Even if it means paying 7 m per.

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02-20-2012, 12:30 AM
  #118
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Some people are really underestimating Karlsson's mental makeup. He has it all. There is NO risk signing him to a longterm deal.

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02-20-2012, 12:30 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by ElginStreetParty07 View Post
Hopefully, he takes under 7m 3 years. I love Karlsson , and I think he is HUGE part of the reason the Sens are even in the playoff discussion , however , it just wouldn't feel right paying ANY 21 year old more than 5 m on a long term (3 or more years) deal. I like the idea of having him as an RFA after 3 years. Even if it means paying 7 m per.
Interesting proposition, although what if Karlsson becomes even better at age 24-25 (safe bet imo)? The cap and average salary will surely be higher as well. And he'll be a year away from UFA. The price will be sky high.

Quote:
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Some people are really underestimating Karlsson's mental makeup. He has it all. There is NO risk signing him to a longterm deal.
Yeah it's not like he's JBo or anything

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02-20-2012, 01:16 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by porknbeans View Post
Some people are really underestimating Karlsson's mental makeup. He has it all. There is NO risk signing him to a longterm deal.
Doesn't stop a player from getting injured and having his play regress, any long term contract is going to be a risk but I think his play has definitely earned a long term contract, the risk will have to be taken.

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02-20-2012, 01:40 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
Maybe that's his actual market value and VLomb was low balling him for a while. Regardless the Karlsson camp may use it as a comparable. Maybe Karlsson will want more than Spezza like Doughty over Kopitar? If Karlsson gets a Norris nomination, the Sens are toast. A top 3 D at his age deserves 7+ on a long term deal. Not so sure LA overpaid based on what Doughty had accomplished.
Would be surprised if Karlsson and his reps forced Doughty money, very doubtful IMO.

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02-20-2012, 04:43 AM
  #122
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doughty money is for when he was man and better then karlsson, i love karlsson but doughty was sick when he signed money so i dont think he will get more then him but your sign this guy big like doughty he wont let you down where the guy i talked about this whole paragraph has

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02-20-2012, 07:07 AM
  #123
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#65 will get 6.5 cap hit, and it will be a pretty long contract. Info right from my ass.

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02-20-2012, 08:13 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElginStreetParty07 View Post
Hopefully, he takes under 7m 3 years. I love Karlsson , and I think he is HUGE part of the reason the Sens are even in the playoff discussion , however , it just wouldn't feel right paying ANY 21 year old more than 5 m on a long term (3 or more years) deal. I like the idea of having him as an RFA after 3 years. Even if it means paying 7 m per.
This is what I want. Give me him 3 years and access where he's at then. If he's asking for an insane amount that we can't or aren't welling to pay you trade him.(though that would be less than ideal).

If you manage to sign him then, give him a 7+ year deal and lock him up in his prime

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02-20-2012, 08:16 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porknbeans View Post
Some people are really underestimating Karlsson's mental makeup. He has it all. There is NO risk signing him to a longterm deal.
Only injury risk. I agree though. Karlsson is self motivated, wants to be the best player in the world. Seriously. He has confidence and swagger and listens to the coach and the vets too. He is perfect in his mental makeup I think.

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