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Rangers interested in Nash: Part III

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Old
02-20-2012, 12:09 AM
  #76
CM Lundqvist
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
The chant was started purely because the guy tied the game with 1:30 left, not because people actually don't want him on the team. How many people who were at the game chanting actually know Rick Nash's stats or his cap hit? Not every fan at the game follows things as in-depth as fans on this message board.

The Garden crowd reacts way too "in the moment" sometimes.
Be honest, you really think the suits and the know-nothings down in the 100's that get free tickets or tickets from their companies were chanting it?

If so, that's pretty naive of you.

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02-20-2012, 12:26 AM
  #77
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I love Zach Parise, everything about him would look fantastic in a Blueshirt. I don't know any Rangers fans that wouldn't love to have him. Despite that, we can't take his contract on either. Our prospect pool looks way too deep and we can't be signing these kids (Krieder, Miller, MDZ, McD, Step, Hags) if Parise is going to eat up more cap space.

I also don't want to have Parise or Nash's contracts wasting away for a whole year if the CBA doesn't work out and I'm stuck watching crap instead of hockey.
I would absolutely love to have Parise, who wouldn't, but not at the contract he'll likely demand. I just don't want anymore big/long term contracts that may mess up the ability to resign our core guys. I probably love Parise's game more than almost anyone besides my love for Malkin, but just do not want him for the contract he'll want.

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02-20-2012, 12:28 AM
  #78
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I would absolutely love to have Parise, who wouldn't, but not at the contract he'll likely demand. I just don't want anymore big/long term contracts that may mess up the ability to resign our core guys. I probably love Parise's game more than almost anyone besides my love for Malkin, but just do not want him for the contract he'll want.
Could NOT be worse than the way Nash's contract is currently structured. Yeah Parise will probably get like 8 or 9 years, but I don't see his average cap hit being beyond $7M. Nash's $7.8M is horribly difficult to work with.

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02-20-2012, 12:34 AM
  #79
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Could NOT be worse than the way Nash's contract is currently structured. Yeah Parise will probably get like 8 or 9 years, but I don't see his average cap hit being beyond $7M. Nash's $7.8M is horribly difficult to work with.
Exactly. Parise can get one of the last circumvention deals where he gets paid 7.5M per year but only counts 6.8M against the cap...or something close to that. Regardless, he'll cost at least a little bit less AND he won't require any assets going the other way. It's a win-win...assuming he's an option.

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02-20-2012, 12:43 AM
  #80
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Wolski, Strahlman, Avery, Woywitka, Drury, will all be coming off the cap this summer. I would include Hagelin as a part of the trade along with Dubinsky.

All together, thats almost 14 million coming off the cap this summer and Nash's 7.8 million added on (if they make the move). The Cap can absolutely be managed.

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02-20-2012, 12:44 AM
  #81
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I would throw in Hags because

1. Compensation for Nash's value.
2. Future Cap consideration.

Hags will get a good contract. Kreider will also. You want Nash to replace Dubinsky, and then Kreider to replace Hagelin on the roster. Makes it Cap Friendly, and your improving both roster spots.

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02-20-2012, 12:47 AM
  #82
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furthermore.....

If you build a Stanley Cup team, chances are, your players are really good, and it will be hard to keep them together when their contracts are up.

The biggest thing people are missing about the future is, Gaborik will not be resigned if Nash is added. We will have a 3 year window of opportunity to win the Cup with both of them. After that, Gaborik is expendable in favor of youth coming up. 34 year old Gabby that still has health questions becomes expendable when you have 30 year old Nash and other players like Stepan turning 25, Kreider turning 27, etc...

Timing is everything. Kreider will not be an instant 30-40 goal superstar. You have to give him 2-3 years to develop. Nash is the player the Rangers need right now and through the next 3 years. By the time Kreider is ready, Gaborik can be let go at age 34. Nash will still be there as the Rangers top player. BUT Kreider can't be involved. You gotta go with something like Dubinsky, Hagelin, Christian Thomas, Tim Erixon, and a #1.

How do you expect to keep a roster like Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, Del Zotto, Sauer, McIlrath, Erixon????? Thats 7 TOP defensemen that will command top contracts and top minutes. Move 1 piece now to complete a lack of offense on the team and make your cup run.

Your never gonna be able to hold onto all those D in 3 years when Erixon and McIlrath are ready. Fill a hole now before you lose someone in the future for less.
Going for a Stanley Cup is all about getting the most peaking players in their prime as you can. You may have prospects up the rear, but if the timing is always off on the development, then you will never win. The Rangers are in a VERY important 3 year stretch right now when they have some world class Defense ALL signed. Lundqvist is in his prime. They NEED to make the move for Nash to complete the Offense. If you wait, then you will eventually lose Defense to higher contracts, Lundqvists gets older, etc... Gotta take FULL advantage of the next 3 year window to win the cup.

Our Defense is already one of the best in the league. You need offense to add to it in order to win. EVERY team will step up in defense when the playoffs come around. If we can't finish against the 30th team in the league, then what happens in the playoffs???

Our games come down to defense and goaltending way too much. You need to address the lack of finishing NOW or it will hurt you in the playoffs when EVERYONE starts to play more shutdown D.

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02-20-2012, 12:52 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Moosehead777 View Post
furthermore.....

If you build a Stanley Cup team, chances are, your players are really good, and it will be hard to keep them together when their contracts are up.

The biggest thing people are missing about the future is, Gaborik will not be resigned if Nash is added. We will have a 3 year window of opportunity to win the Cup with both of them. After that, Gaborik is expendable in favor of youth coming up. 34 year old Gabby that still has health questions becomes expendable when you have 30 year old Nash and other players like Stepan turning 25, Kreider turning 27, etc...

Timing is everything. Kreider will not be an instant 30-40 goal superstar. You have to give him 2-3 years to develop. Nash is the player the Rangers need right now and through the next 3 years. By the time Kreider is ready, Gaborik can be let go at age 34. Nash will still be there as the Rangers top player. BUT Kreider can't be involved. You gotta go with something like Dubinsky, Hagelin, Christian Thomas, Tim Erixon, and a #1.

How do you expect to keep a roster like Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, Del Zotto, Sauer, McIlrath, Erixon????? Thats 7 TOP defensemen that will command top contracts and top minutes. Move 1 piece now to complete a lack of offense on the team and make your cup run.

Your never gonna be able to hold onto all those D in 3 years when Erixon and McIlrath are ready. Fill a hole now before you lose someone in the future for less.
Going for a Stanley Cup is all about getting the most peaking players in their prime as you can. You may have prospects up the rear, but if the timing is always off on the development, then you will never win. The Rangers are in a VERY important 3 year stretch right now when they have some world class Defense ALL signed. Lundqvist is in his prime. They NEED to make the move for Nash to complete the Offense. If you wait, then you will eventually lose Defense to higher contracts, Lundqvists gets older, etc... Gotta take FULL advantage of the next 3 year window to win the cup.

Our Defense is already one of the best in the league. You need offense to add to it in order to win. EVERY team will step up in defense when the playoffs come around. If we can't finish against the 30th team in the league, then what happens in the playoffs???

Our games come down to defense and goaltending way too much. You need to address the lack of finishing NOW or it will hurt you in the playoffs when EVERYONE starts to play more shutdown D.
We don't need a 7.8M forward to provide the missing offense. There will be other options that cost far less, in both cap hit and assets.

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Old
02-20-2012, 12:57 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
We don't need a 7.8M forward to provide the missing offense. There will be other options that cost far less, in both cap hit and assets.

Wolski, Strahlman, Avery, Woywitka, Drury, will all be coming off the cap this summer. I would include Hagelin as a part of the trade along with Dubinsky.

All together, thats almost 14 million coming off the cap this summer and Nash's 7.8 million added on (if they make the move). The Cap can absolutely be managed.

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02-20-2012, 12:58 AM
  #85
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Nash is the guy we need.......

Every GM in the league knows if Nash can put up four 30 goal seasons and two 40 goal seasons with no supporting cast around him, he is almost assured to be a 40-50 goal scorer with a top center and top supporting players like on the Rangers. Thats why Columbus is seeking so much compensation for Nash.

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02-20-2012, 12:59 AM
  #86
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if we get Nash we could be on the verge of the greatest Rangers team ever....devestating Offensive scoring and a stone wall defense+goaltending....

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02-20-2012, 12:59 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Moosehead777 View Post
Nash is the guy we need.......

Every GM in the league knows if Nash can put up four 30 goal seasons and two 40 goal seasons with no supporting cast around him, he is almost assured to be a 40-50 goal scorer with a top center and top supporting players like on the Rangers. Thats why Columbus is seeking so much compensation for Nash.
Isn't this what we thought when we got Gaborik? Was it not reiterated when we signed Richards? Why would it be different now?

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02-20-2012, 01:00 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Moosehead777 View Post
Wolski, Strahlman, Avery, Woywitka, Drury, will all be coming off the cap this summer. I would include Hagelin as a part of the trade along with Dubinsky.

All together, thats almost 14 million coming off the cap this summer and Nash's 7.8 million added on (if they make the move). The Cap can absolutely be managed.
I'm aware it can be "managed". Can you tell me why we need to go for the player with the highest contract? There's no point. We can trade a lesser package for a 5M player who will provide the 25-30 extra goals we all know we've needed. We'll have the extra scoring, more cap flexibility going forward, and more assets. It's all around the wiser move with much less risk. These humongous big contracts rarely work out.

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02-20-2012, 01:04 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Moosehead777 View Post
Wolski, Strahlman, Avery, Woywitka, Drury, will all be coming off the cap this summer. I would include Hagelin as a part of the trade along with Dubinsky.

All together, thats almost 14 million coming off the cap this summer and Nash's 7.8 million added on (if they make the move). The Cap can absolutely be managed.
Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know too much about salary caps- what does it mean that Stralman is coming off the cap in the summer? Will he still be a Ranger in 12/13?

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02-20-2012, 01:06 AM
  #90
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Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know too much about salary caps- what does it mean that Stralman is coming off the cap in the summer? Will he still be a Ranger in 12/13?
He's a restricted free agent. The Rangers can choose to qualify him or let him walk.

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02-20-2012, 01:08 AM
  #91
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We don't need a 7.8M forward to provide the missing offense. There will be other options that cost far less, in both cap hit and assets.
Ding ding ding. We have our two big offensive weapons. It's all about the proper supporting cast. This team isn't going to be the 2009-2010 Capitals, but we don't need to be. Our last real superstar is our all-world goalie, who basically ensures that every game is winnable. This team isn't going to win the Cup if the games are 10 goal shootouts. That would require a complete revamp of the roster.

Nash would tie up too much money in a player who doesn't fit the team concept (not to mention the assets lost acquiring him).

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02-20-2012, 01:09 AM
  #92
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He's a restricted free agent. The Rangers can choose to qualify him or let him walk.
Ah thanks. I'm a big fan of Anton's, love his hits and offensive prowess. Do you guys think we'll qualify him? Good problem to have with such depth in defence.

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02-20-2012, 01:17 AM
  #93
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We don't need a 7.8M forward to provide the missing offense. There will be other options that cost far less, in both cap hit and assets.
like who though? outside of nash and carter, the trade market is pretty weak and the few decent names that were out there seem to have been pulled off the market.

plan B to find offense might be 'cross your fingers and hope dubi remembers how to score'...many view that as plan A lol

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02-20-2012, 01:32 AM
  #94
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Ah thanks. I'm a big fan of Anton's, love his hits and offensive prowess. Do you guys think we'll qualify him? Good problem to have with such depth in defence.
I don't see why we wouldn't. Even if they decide not to keep him, I'm sure he'll have good trade value.

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02-20-2012, 01:33 AM
  #95
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Isn't this what we thought when we got Gaborik? Was it not reiterated when we signed Richards? Why would it be different now?
Agreed, the Rangers aren't exactly a team in which players come here and perform better offensively than they did on their old team. Gaborik's offensive performance has been consistent with how he performed in Minny. Richards is on pace for a career low in assists (although I'm assuming/hoping that will improve in future seasons). There's no guarantee that Nash will come here and be a consistent 40+ goal scorer.

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02-20-2012, 01:34 AM
  #96
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Ah thanks. I'm a big fan of Anton's, love his hits and offensive prowess. Do you guys think we'll qualify him? Good problem to have with such depth in defence.
Certainly seems likely that we do. He has been surprisingly good.

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02-20-2012, 01:35 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Moosehead777 View Post
Nash is the guy we need.......

Every GM in the league knows if Nash can put up four 30 goal seasons and two 40 goal seasons with no supporting cast around him, he is almost assured to be a 40-50 goal scorer with a top center and top supporting players like on the Rangers. Thats why Columbus is seeking so much compensation for Nash.
the bolded has proven to be wrong time and time again yet it is ALWAYS brought up when talking about adding an underperforming player from another team

can someone please point me to an example in the last 20 years where a player came to the rangers and performed considerably above their career averages? i haven't looked up any stats but i can't think of any off the top of my head...i can however think of plenty that haven't.

I've heard/said that exact statement about the following players and without fail it was dead wrong everytime:

Gaborik
Richards
Gomez
Drury
Wolski
Lisin
Redden
Higgins
Zherdev
Frolov
Jokinen
Kotalik
McCabe
Shanahan
Naslund
Kalinin
Morris

people apparently think the lights in NYC have some sort of superman/yellow sun effect on hockey players....unfortunately its just not true

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02-20-2012, 01:54 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
the bolded has proven to be wrong time and time again yet it is ALWAYS brought up when talking about adding an underperforming player from another team

can someone please point me to an example in the last 20 years where a player came to the rangers and performed considerably above their career averages? i haven't looked up any stats but i can't think of any off the top of my head...i can however think of plenty that haven't.

I've heard/said that exact statement about the following players and without fail it was dead wrong everytime:

Gaborik
Richards
Gomez
Drury
Wolski
Lisin
Redden
Higgins
Zherdev
Frolov
Jokinen
Kotalik
McCabe
Shanahan
Naslund
Kalinin
Morris

people apparently think the lights in NYC have some sort of superman/yellow sun effect on hockey players....unfortunately its just not true
THANK YOU.

This is EXACTLY why this team is better off with Zach Parise over Rick Nash.

Now those might not be great examples to use to illustrate your point, but the point in principle is great.

You just can't assume Nash scores 50 goals a year in NY. Sure, he played under Ken Hitchcock in Columbus. His system isn't Tortarella's system. There's no guarantee that Nash doesn't come here and screw up the chemistry. There's no guarantee he doesn't click with Stepan or Richards. There's no guarantee that he doesn't take away from Gaborik. That's the problem with a guy that's a shoot-first player.

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02-20-2012, 02:02 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
the bolded has proven to be wrong time and time again yet it is ALWAYS brought up when talking about adding an underperforming player from another team

can someone please point me to an example in the last 20 years where a player came to the rangers and performed considerably above their career averages? i haven't looked up any stats but i can't think of any off the top of my head...i can however think of plenty that haven't.

I've heard/said that exact statement about the following players and without fail it was dead wrong everytime:

Gaborik
Richards
Gomez
Drury
Wolski
Lisin
Redden
Higgins
Zherdev
Frolov
Jokinen
Kotalik
McCabe
Shanahan
Naslund
Kalinin
Morris

people apparently think the lights in NYC have some sort of superman/yellow sun effect on hockey players....unfortunately its just not true
You forgot:

Theo Fleury
Valeri Kamensky
Bobby Holik
Brian Skrudland
Pat Lafontaine
Eric Lindros
Pat Verbeek
Jari Kurri
Luc Robitaille
Kevin Stevens
Mike Keane
John Mclean

The only players that work out to have better numbers AFTER they get here are players at the BEGINNING of their careers.

Brian Boyle
Adam Graves
(Ryan McDonagh)
Petr Nedved
Radek Dvorak
Mike Knuble

If we trade young players for Nash, Nash will ONLY BE HERE for 3 years tops. And we will rue the day we traded Carl Hagelin who will end up playing for a decade ala Kelly Miller/Mike Ridley. Heck, we don't need to look further than Fedor Tyutin tonight. BAD MOVE.

I was watching Nash carefully tonight and sure, he has a big body, but he did not get any of his chances by going into traffic, they were all from the outside or hanging at the blue line. Nash is not nearly as effective away from the puck as any of the players we'd be trading him for that are already on the roster. For a guy with some of his tools, I just don't see him making as big of an impact as he should make on a game. he's not 7.8 million dollar player. If he was 6 mil or even 5 - do you think Scott Howson would even be exploring a trade? Hell no.

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02-20-2012, 03:13 AM
  #100
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Unfortunately, no. But when I searched "Brad Richards" in the NYR forums, I was surprised at how Many threads came up. You guys had an entire thread waiting for him to choose where to go.
Holy ****, I looked at your join date. You have 1,000 posts since January. I thought I was going crazy with 900 since November.

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