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Old
02-19-2012, 05:47 PM
  #126
Horvat2Virtanen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
The only Leaf I would want would be Schenn, and even then he'd be a 4th defenceman at best (probably fight it out with Ballard and Rome for icetime).

The rest of that team licks ass - honestly I wouldn't even want the vast majority of players on that team for free, and that includes Kessel.

None would fit on the Canucks, where one has to play with accountability and pride.
5 th as of right now are top 4 is set with Hamhuis, Bieksa, Edler and Salo.

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Old
02-19-2012, 05:57 PM
  #127
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Franson sucks just like the Leafs D. Just another example of fans overrating their team.

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Old
02-19-2012, 05:58 PM
  #128
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Schenn, Gustavvson and Crabb for Schneider, Raymond? (And then trade Connolly to CLB to pass Nash the puck for now for a 3rd-5th)
Trade Breakdown: Shores up the Canucks' 2nd/3rd RHD spot, gives them a quality backup for this year and a hardworking, 4th liner that can still chip in points.
Gives the Leafs a potential #1 goalie that has proved he can handle the starter spot and a speedy 3rd liner that would fit well with the Leafs.

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:02 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SundinOurOnlyChance View Post
Bieksa and Edler are the only two above average defensemen on your team, everyone else is under Franson, so if Franson is below average, my point still stands, the other defensemen are below average according to your standards.
I thought this was a dandy of a post, congrats man. Franson > Hamhuis and Salo??? He plays 16 minutes a game for a team that's struggling to make the playoffs, yet you expect him to come to a stanley cup contender and take over the #3 spot? I highly doubt he'd crack the line-up, let alone trump guys like Hamhuis and Salo.

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:03 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
ya i would have to say that goaltending has made a difference as well.

but van d production 116 points, tor d production 110 points

Van has cap hit of 21.225

Tor has cap hit of 22.775


in pretty much every category canucks d wins and is paid less. therefore better value.
If you take Komisarek out of this equation (he's only played 29 games and contributed 4 points) the "better value" is actually a lot harder to determine.

*YES Komisarek was a mistake, and we will need to find a way to rid ourselves of that cap hit, but when we do:

Van D production of 116 points @ $21.225 M
vs
Tor D production of 106 points @ $18.275 M

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:05 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafer97 View Post
Schenn, Gustavvson and Crabb for Schneider, Raymond? (And then trade Connolly to CLB to pass Nash the puck for now for a 3rd-5th)
Trade Breakdown: Shores up the Canucks' 2nd/3rd RHD spot, gives them a quality backup for this year and a hardworking, 4th liner that can still chip in points.
Gives the Leafs a potential #1 goalie that has proved he can handle the starter spot and a speedy 3rd liner that would fit well with the Leafs.
I don't get why the Canucks would need the monster? The reason we would be trading Schneider would mean giving the full time net to Luongo, the monster would be kinda redundant seeing as we have Lack in the minors. Anyway no thanks what about Schenn+Kulemin for Schneider+Raymond+3 rd?

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02-19-2012, 06:07 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieKelly View Post
If you take Komisarek out of this equation (he's only played 29 games and contributed 4 points) the "better value" is actually a lot harder to determine.

*YES Komisarek was a mistake, and we will need to find a way to rid ourselves of that cap hit, but when we do:

Van D production of 116 points @ $21.225 M
vs
Tor D production of 106 points @ $18.275 M
The same could be said if you took out Ballard from the 'Nucks side of things. Don't even try to argue this Vancouver's defense is worlds better than Toronto's.

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:08 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieKelly View Post
If you take Komisarek out of this equation (he's only played 29 games and contributed 4 points) the "better value" is actually a lot harder to determine.

*YES Komisarek was a mistake, and we will need to find a way to rid ourselves of that cap hit, but when we do:

Van D production of 116 points @ $21.225 M
vs
Tor D production of 106 points @ $18.275 M
That's the weakest argument I've ever heard. "If you take out the weakest link, WE LOOK A LOT BETTER!!"
Last time I checked Komisarek is still playing, so obviously he'd be included in the equation, mistake or not.

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:13 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieKelly View Post
If you take Komisarek out of this equation (he's only played 29 games and contributed 4 points) the "better value" is actually a lot harder to determine.

*YES Komisarek was a mistake, and we will need to find a way to rid ourselves of that cap hit, but when we do:

Van D production of 116 points @ $21.225 M
vs
Tor D production of 106 points @ $18.275 M
but that is like taking ballard out even though he is ok

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:14 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SundinOurOnlyChance View Post
Bieksa and Edler are the only two above average defensemen on your team, everyone else is under Franson, so if Franson is below average, my point still stands, the other defensemen are below average according to your standards.

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:16 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Bruno Mars View Post
I don't get why the Canucks would need the monster? The reason we would be trading Schneider would mean giving the full time net to Luongo, the monster would be kinda redundant seeing as we have Lack in the minors. Anyway no thanks what about Schenn+Kulemin for Schneider+Raymond+3 rd?
Reason was for you to have a back up for the season and let Lack take the spot next year once he hits UFA. And Schenn=Schneider basicly so that is underpayment on Kulemin even though he isn't scoring, he is good defensively.

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02-19-2012, 06:27 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafer97 View Post
Reason was for you to have a back up for the season and let Lack take the spot next year once he hits UFA. And Schenn=Schneider basicly so that is underpayment on Kulemin even though he isn't scoring, he is good defensively.
1) Schenn IMO is not worth Schneider at all. Schneids has shown that, statistically over multiple years, he's one of the best at his position in the league, Schenn has shown he can't even break into the top 4 of one of the worst defensive teams in the league, who need a solid shut-down defender. Schenn's contract doesn't help either.

2) Raymond is better defensively than Kulemin but the Canucks want Kulemin because he's more physical then Raymond.

If I'm Gillis I don't touch that trade with a 10-foot pole.

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:31 PM
  #138
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He is top 4 worthy, but fits Burke's old plans of truculence instead of small and speedy, and apparently Wilson hates him. And, a good, young goalie isn't worth what your IMO is.

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02-19-2012, 06:42 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Leafer97 View Post
He is top 4 worthy, but fits Burke's old plans of truculence instead of small and speedy, and apparently Wilson hates him. And, a good, young goalie isn't worth what your IMO is.
Schneider has tons of potential, not only is he a potential NHL starter, but he's a potential top 10 starting goalie. I'd take that every day over Schenn. If the Oilers and Canucks weren't in the same division I would be willing to unload quite a bit to get Schneider off the Canucks hands, the same can't be said for Schenn.

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02-19-2012, 06:46 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafer97 View Post
He is top 4 worthy, but fits Burke's old plans of truculence instead of small and speedy, and apparently Wilson hates him. And, a good, young goalie isn't worth what your IMO is.
Oh sorry, I didn't realize Schenn was top 4 worthy but despite playing on a weak team struggling to try and get into the playoffs his coach hates him so much that he has decided to tank the season and not play him.

Very likely.

Also, Schneider isn't that young, he's just a good goalie. He's not a "starter" we'll leave that to guys like Gustavson a few years ago and Reimer now, he's just a good goalie.

If you guys don't want to pay the price for Schneider, the Canucks have no problem keeping him.

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02-19-2012, 07:47 PM
  #141
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Imagine him on a different team like Philly where he would excel at and Schenn is apparently worth JVR to Holmgren and Burke, And Schneider doesn't come close.

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02-19-2012, 07:50 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno Mars View Post
what about Schenn+Kulemin for Schneider+Raymond+3 rd?
That's actually not bad... I don't know ho to respond to a resonable post on HFboards

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Old
02-19-2012, 07:55 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Leafer97 View Post
Imagine him on a different team like Philly where he would excel at and Schenn is apparently worth JVR to Holmgren and Burke, And Schneider doesn't come close.
Canucks were offered JVR for Cory last year and turned it down.

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Old
02-19-2012, 08:27 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
The Sedins are actually very good defensively. How many times do you see them lose a board battle? How many years now have they been amongst the best plus/minus players?

Just because they aren't use in a shutdown role doesn't mean they aren't good in that area. In addition to being prolific scorers it's how effectively they cycle and kill time in the other teams zone which mean less time in their own zone.

Kessel and Lupul are darn good offensive players but all of their offence is almost exclusively off the rush. They trade chances all game every game. They don't eat up time in the other teams zone like the Sedins do. Which mean more quality chances for the other team.

Take the Leafs D group and have them backstopped by far superior goaltending and a superior forward group and they'd look pretty amazing.

D is a team game. Everybody picks on the Leafs D but it is actually one of the best groups in the NHL. It's our forwards and goaltending that needs to be upgraded.
The Sedins are tough on the boards, yes. They are great at winning board battles. But every time the Sedins actually have to play in their own zone, its a cluster-****. There's a reason Vigneault shields them from d-zone faceoffs.
But I'll promise you one thing - your leafs wouldn't look "pretty amazing" with our goaltending duo (which they couldn't afford). it'd be an improvement, no doubt, but the Canucks are a better team up and down, D, O and G. I'm not sure what you're even talking about.

EDIT: Also, I'm not picking on the leafs. I lived in Toronto for 3 years and have some affection for the blue and white.

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Old
02-19-2012, 11:20 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Yeah15 View Post
Schneider has tons of potential, not only is he a potential NHL starter, but he's a potential top 10 starting goalie. I'd take that every day over Schenn. If the Oilers and Canucks weren't in the same division I would be willing to unload quite a bit to get Schneider off the Canucks hands, the same can't be said for Schenn.
Lots of goalies have potential. Luke Schenn was drafted because he was a safe pick with a great defensive ceiling.

It's easy for you to say that you'd take it. You don't have a defenceman as valuable as Schenn on the Oilers.

And FYI, I would also trade within my division if it meant making my team better.

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Old
02-20-2012, 04:43 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by jpallday View Post
Lots of goalies have potential. Luke Schenn was drafted because he was a safe pick with a great defensive ceiling.

It's easy for you to say that you'd take it. You don't have a defenceman as valuable as Schenn on the Oilers.

And FYI, I would also trade within my division if it meant making my team better.
Isn't Smid a better version of Schenn?

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02-20-2012, 04:56 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Bruno Mars View Post
The same could be said if you took out Ballard from the 'Nucks side of things. Don't even try to argue this Vancouver's defense is worlds better than Toronto's.
The Leafs are also a much younger team with much younger players including on the blue line. Franson,Schenn,Phaneuf,Gunnar,Gardiner,Aulie are all young players and have nowhere near the experience the Canucks D has. As it stands of course the Nucks blue line is better but in a few years don't be surprised to see Toronto's right up there as well. We have too many high potential young dman to remain this bad.

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Old
02-20-2012, 05:28 AM
  #148
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180 post is a thread featuring Joey Crabb and Mason Raymond

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Old
02-20-2012, 05:29 AM
  #149
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