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Carolina - St. Louis

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:49 PM
  #1
Rivet52
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Carolina - St. Louis


To Carolina:

C Evgeny Grachev
2012 2nd
2013 4th


To St. Louis:

D Bryan Allen

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:52 PM
  #2
CarvinSigX
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Thanks but no thanks.

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:52 PM
  #3
bleedblue1223
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We aren't paying the price for rental defensemen, unless it is for a clear upgrade, which Allen is not.

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:54 PM
  #4
jeromeo87
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Sure.

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:58 PM
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PocketNines
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Too much from the Blues, kinda feel meh about it even if the price came down. Blues just spent a 3d on Grachev and he's been decent but the Blues are deeper this year, so it would translate to a 2d and 3d and a 4th for a rental of a so-so player with very little playoff experience and none since the lockout. The point of adding to the D if they do is to add depth beyond Huskins with Cup/deep playoff experience. This doesn't do that. Blues pass at that price.

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:59 PM
  #6
Market Street Heroes
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Why on earth would the Blues do this?!?

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02-19-2012, 07:01 PM
  #7
Rivet52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
We aren't paying the price for rental defensemen, unless it is for a clear upgrade, which Allen is not.
Allen isn't an upgrade over Russell and Huskins? Russell and Huskins have both played pretty well but Allen is a steady, stay-at-home defenseman who would compliment guys such as Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk. He is also an upgrade in his own end over Colaiacovo IMO.

The Blues are good defensively and both Halak and Elliott have been amazing but I think adding a top 4 defensive defenseman could solidify the defense even more. Adding a veteran for a run could also help, especially helping the younger, inexperienced defenders the Blues have.

Bryan Allen is a good defenseman. I thought based on the going rate of the ones of his caliber, the price for him would be similar to the package in my proposal. Grachev is kind of redundant to the Blues now. Still a decent prospect, but is behind the players already on the NHL roster and most likely will be behind Tarasenko and Schwartz very soon, if not already. The Blues are very deep offensively with talented young players, both already playing for them and in the pipeline.


Last edited by Rivet52: 02-19-2012 at 07:08 PM.
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Old
02-19-2012, 07:04 PM
  #8
jeromeo87
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Just thought I would add that Allen has maybe been Carolina's best dman this year.

You may continue your debate

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02-19-2012, 07:08 PM
  #9
PocketNines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivet52 View Post
Allen isn't an upgrade over Russell and Huskins for the bottom-pairing? Russell and Huskins have both played pretty well but Allen is a steady, stay-at-home defenseman who would compliment guys such as Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk. He is also an upgrade in his own end over Colaiacovo IMO.

The Blues are good defensively and both Halak and Elliott have been amazing but I think adding a top 4 defensive defenseman could solidify the defense even more. Adding a veteran for a run could also help, especially helping the younger, inexperienced defenders the Blues have.

Bryan Allen is a good defenseman. I thought based on the going rate of the ones of his caliber, the price for him would be similar to the package in my proposal. Grachev is kind of redundant to the Blues now. Still a decent prospect, but is behind the players already on the NHL roster and most likely will be behind Tarasenko and Schwartz very soon, if not already. The Blues are very deep offensively with talented young players, both already playing for them and in the pipeline.
Huskins has been pretty surprisingly good this year. A shame he lost so many games to injury but he looked great before getting hurt and has a very simple, efficient game that works with Pietrangelo right now.

Russell is specifically the PMD in the Polak pairing. Polak plays stay-at-home and Russell uses his speed and skating to generate the rush. In Hitchcock's system – the one everyone thinks is a trap but isn't close to that – they rely on defensemen to be able to skate the puck up and make great outlet passes. The forwards backcheck and help create turnovers, and bam, it's up ice the other way.

Therefore the idea behind adding an 8th one-way contract on defense would be to add a second person beyond Huskins with playoff experience. Most of their playoff experience is up front and their goalies each have one year's worth. Kubina fit that mold and so did Gill (though I personally was more in the Kubina camp) but Allen does not fit that mold.

Beyond that the asking price is too high even if he did have that kind of experience.

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02-19-2012, 07:11 PM
  #10
bleedblue1223
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There is no point in paying that price for something that we don't need, nothing against Allen, we just don't need him.

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02-19-2012, 07:14 PM
  #11
CarvinSigX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeromeo87 View Post
Just thought I would add that Allen has maybe been Carolina's best dman this year.

You may continue your debate
That doesn't make it a good deal for the Blues.

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02-19-2012, 07:16 PM
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jeromeo87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
That doesn't make it a good deal for the Blues.
Didn't say it did. I don't follow the Blues; I don't know what they need. All I know is someone proposed this deal and Allen has perhaps been our best dman.

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02-19-2012, 07:23 PM
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mizzoublues29
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I have absolutely no idea how good Allen is. That being said, I feel like it's a slight overpayment from the Blues...but I really have no idea.

Hope this contributes

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02-19-2012, 07:25 PM
  #14
TerminatorBlue
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Chris Stewart + 1st 2012

for

Jay Harrison +1st 2012

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Old
02-19-2012, 07:25 PM
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CarvinSigX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeromeo87 View Post
Didn't say it did. I don't follow the Blues; I don't know what they need. All I know is someone proposed this deal and Allen has perhaps been our best dman.
And Carolina is last in the conference...St. Louis is looking for an impact player at that price or higher.

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02-19-2012, 07:32 PM
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jeromeo87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue View Post
Chris Stewart + 1st 2012

for

Jay Harrison +1st 2012
No, thanks

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02-19-2012, 07:41 PM
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PocketNines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue View Post
Chris Stewart + 1st 2012

for

Jay Harrison +1st 2012
As a Blues fan this is a bad deal for the Canes. Their 1st is by far the most valuable of those four items.

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02-19-2012, 08:12 PM
  #18
TerminatorBlue
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
As a Blues fan this is a bad deal for the Canes. Their 1st is by far the most valuable of those four items.
No it's not

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02-19-2012, 08:34 PM
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CarvinSigX
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No it's not
I like your thinking! Carolina really does need that pick though.

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Old
02-20-2012, 08:47 AM
  #20
OpenIceHit42
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Bryan Allen is not an upgrade over Kent Huskins.

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02-20-2012, 10:25 AM
  #21
WhiteTrashAmerican
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenIceHit42 View Post
Bryan Allen is not an upgrade over Kent Huskins.
Bryan Allen is not an upgrade over Kent Huskins. He only blocks twice as many shots, hits three times as much, is less injury prone, is bigger, and fights more. And I also just found out he is younger. But I repeat, he is not an upgrade over Kent Huskins.

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02-20-2012, 10:43 AM
  #22
bleedblue1223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeMPV View Post
Bryan Allen is not an upgrade over Kent Huskins. He only blocks twice as many shots, hits three times as much, is less injury prone, is bigger, and fights more. And I also just found out he is younger. But I repeat, he is not an upgrade over Kent Huskins.
He might be a slight upgrade over Huskins, but he doesn't make the team any better. There is no point in paying what it would take to get him.

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Old
02-20-2012, 10:47 AM
  #23
OpenIceHit42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeMPV View Post
Bryan Allen is not an upgrade over Kent Huskins. He only blocks twice as many shots, hits three times as much, is less injury prone, is bigger, and fights more. And I also just found out he is younger. But I repeat, he is not an upgrade over Kent Huskins.
Not enough of an upgrade to give up anything for Allen.

Blues need experience on the blue line heading into the playoffs.

Alex Pietrangelo - 0 career playoff games
Kevin Shattenkirk - 0 career playoff games
Roman Polak - 4 career playoff games
Kris Russel - 4 career playoff games
Carlo Colaiacovo - 4 career playoff games
Barrett Jackman - 12 career playoff games
Kent Huskins - 47 career playoff games.


How many playoff games has Bryan Allen played in? 7, I repeat 7. Kent Huskins 47career playoff games. let me repeat that again for you, 47.

/thread

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02-20-2012, 11:01 AM
  #24
PocketNines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeMPV View Post
Bryan Allen is not an upgrade over Kent Huskins. He only blocks twice as many shots, hits three times as much, is less injury prone, is bigger, and fights more. And I also just found out he is younger. But I repeat, he is not an upgrade over Kent Huskins.
I agree that Allen's better than Huskins over the long haul. Huskins has the experience of a Cup run which Allen doesn't. If you were thinking the Blues would then rid themselves of Huskins after aquiring Allen or any d-man, that's a non-starter.

It's a little tough for us to judge Huskins right now because he started off the year looking great. Truly, he looked great. The Blues still had Payne coaching the team and were in 14th place when Hitchcock took over. Huskins was a real bright spot, it was him and Elliott. Then he took a puck off the ankle and missed 45 or so games and is only just now back. He's more physical than Colaiacovo and has this spare, simple game that works well with Pietrangelo. In the long run we probably need an upgrade but in the short run he's not been a weak link and the playoff experience is the reason he was brought in, so they're not going to supplant him with someone who has 7 career playoff games and give up assets to make that swap, even if Allen were objectively "better" over his career.

I don't think just because he's on Carolina and they're bad this year that makes every player on the team bad. Allen could be a good add for some team. He plays 20 min and is well-established in the league. But with the Blues, it is literally a pre-requisite that strong playoff experience be part of your portfolio if you're going to add to the D-corps. The Blues added it up front and the goalies have seen it, but on D Polak, Colaiacovo, Russell and Jackman each have 4 games from three years ago, their top two d-men have none. Jackman also has a 7 game series from his rookie year.

Some Blues fans wanted Gill, some wanted Kubina, and it's because those guys have Cup-winning playoff experience along with size and shot blocking. Honestly, no offense to Bryan Allen but I'd be really shocked to see the Blues do this.

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