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Rangers interested in Nash: Part III

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02-20-2012, 11:49 AM
  #201
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I would respond with a Dubi, Erixon, 1st....Have a hard time giving up C.K., but if it seals a deal I'd be tossing and turning over the next week trying to make up my mind...The Rangers defense is okay over the next few years as currently constructed in its current competitive window of opportunity..So giving up Erixon, Mcilrath(sp?) isn't a deal breaker imo...

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02-20-2012, 11:49 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Cooooommmmmeeee on. Why on earth would Kreider become a "superstar"?

There is nothing that indicates that Kreider will become a superstar. Nothing.

I would say that he is on track to score 18-25 goals while being a strong 2-way player right now. Which would make him a great pick.

Him scoring 30 goals is as likely as Dubinsky scoring 35-40 goals. Or Callahan scoring 50.
I was with you until the last sentence. I hope he can be a 25/25 or 30/30 guy, which puts him in Callahan (and the player formerly known as Dubinsky) as it is.

Not a superstar by any means, but someone who can contribute.

I do think, however, that a lot of people are drinking the kool-aid when it comes to his true potential. People expecting a star player will be disappointed.

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02-20-2012, 11:49 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Cooooommmmmeeee on. Why on earth would Kreider become a "superstar"?

There is nothing that indicates that Kreider will become a superstar. Nothing.

I would say that he is on track to score 18-25 goals while being a strong 2-way player right now. Which would make him a great pick.

Him scoring 30 goals is as likely as Dubinsky scoring 35-40 goals. Or Callahan scoring 50.
OK Kreider scores 20, Dubi gets 15-20 goals, thats 35 possible goals at $5.2 mill as opposed to $7.8 and whatever else in personnel we lose. This is a crazy deal; I like Nash but the price is prohibitive

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02-20-2012, 11:52 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Jackpot View Post
I would respond with a Dubi, Erixon, 1st....Have a hard time giving up C.K., but if it seals a deal I'd be tossing and turning over the next week trying to make up my mind...The Rangers defense is okay over the next few years as currently constructed in its current competitive window of opportunity..So giving up Erixon, Mcilrath(sp?) isn't a deal breaker imo...
Why even respond with that? Better yet, why even get involved if thats all the Rangers are willing to part with?

I have no doubt in my mind the Rangers arent fretting losing a Kreider or Miller in this deal. They are concerned about the MDZ/McD demand. You know, guys that are actually performing admirably at the NHL level.

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02-20-2012, 11:52 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by nrf83 View Post
OK Kreider scores 20, Dubi gets 15-20 goals, thats 35 possible goals at $5.2 mill as opposed to $7.8 and whatever else in personnel we lose. This is a crazy deal; I like Nash but the price is prohibitive
Flawed logic. Thats also double the ice-time to produce those 35 goals.

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02-20-2012, 11:54 AM
  #206
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Oddly enough, right now I would much rather have Nash at his rate than Dubinsky at his.

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02-20-2012, 11:56 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Oddly enough, right now I would much rather have Nash at his rate than Dubinsky at his.
That's not odd at all. But unless you're on some powerful mind-altering drugs, I find it hard to believe that any rational Rangers fan would rather have Nash at his rate than Dubinsky at his + McDonagh/Del Zotto + Kreider + 2012 1st.

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02-20-2012, 11:59 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
That's not odd at all. But unless you're on some powerful mind-altering drugs, I find it hard to believe that any rational Rangers fan would rather have Nash at his rate than Dubinsky at his + McDonagh/Del Zotto + Kreider + 2012 1st.
Exactly. Nash is just an accident waiting to happen. He costs too much in every sense. We'll all be hoping he contributes even close to what he costs...and that's simply a recipe for disaster.

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02-20-2012, 11:59 AM
  #209
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Aaron Portzline @Aportzline

#CBJ GM Scott Howson: "We're waiting for the right deals. We're getting closer. But we're not there yet."
Sather better not be one of the ones moving closer to his "right deal."

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02-20-2012, 11:59 AM
  #210
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Fischler basically said on the Isles pre-game that he doesn't think Nash is getting dealt because they (CBJ) will only deal him if it's absurdly tilted in their favor.

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02-20-2012, 12:02 PM
  #211
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After watching Columbus' defense last night, it's no surprise they want McD or DZ. Either of them would Columbus' best defenseman by a large margin. These proposals featuring Dubinsky and a bunch of other forward prospects aren't going to cut it. Forget about Nash and move on.

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02-20-2012, 12:03 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Flawed logic. Thats also double the ice-time to produce those 35 goals.

I am always amazed at the protective, over inflated optimism we the fans have of our prospects. The kid could be a total NHL bust, or best case another 20-25 goal scorer that are a dime a dozen around the NHL, by no means will the arrival or departure of C.K. have any GREAT impact in the direction of this organization...But, that's Just my opinion, and you know what they say bout those..

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02-20-2012, 12:09 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
After watching Columbus' defense last night, it's no surprise they want McD or DZ. Either of them would Columbus' best defenseman by a large margin. These proposals featuring Dubinsky and a bunch of other forward prospects aren't going to cut it. Forget about Nash and move on.
My proposal has been..

Dubinsky
Sauer
McIlrath
MSC or Thomas
1st

That's one of our top 2 defensive prospects (depending on where you rank him and Erixon) One of our top 5 defenseman, who played on both the top and 2nd pair at different times last season, one of our better forward prospects, tier 2 behind Kreider, and our #1 next season.

It's a very fair offer when you factor in the contract you are taking back.

Im not interested in spending much more than that.

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02-20-2012, 12:09 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Jackpot View Post
I am always amazed at the protective, over inflated optimism we the fans have of our prospects. The kid could be a total NHL bust, or best case another 20-25 goal scorer that are a dime a dozen around the NHL, by no means will the arrival or departure of C.K. have any GREAT impact in the direction of this organization...But, that's Just my opinion, and you know what they say bout those..
The thing is CK doesn't have nearly the potential for the same negative effect on this team as does Nash. He'll cost peanuts in comparison and won't have nearly the same expectations. Sure, some fans will complain if Kreider doesn't pot 25 goals next season...but what happens when Nash only scores 30-35. Do we really want to pay someone 7.8M in valuable cap space for 33 goals? I don't...not after having so much space tied up in Gaborik and Richards.

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02-20-2012, 12:10 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackpot View Post
I am always amazed at the protective, over inflated optimism we the fans have of our prospects. The kid could be a total NHL bust, or best case another 20-25 goal scorer that are a dime a dozen around the NHL, by no means will the arrival or departure of C.K. have any GREAT impact in the direction of this organization...But, that's Just my opinion, and you know what they say bout those..
"dime a dozen" for a 20-25 goal scorer in the NHL?

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02-20-2012, 12:10 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Sather better not be one of the ones moving closer to his "right deal."
i dont think the rangers are getting him.

Sather doesnt get fleeced on deals, and the proposed deals being thrown around are VERY 1-sided in favor of the Jackets.

i think hes going to Los Angeles. They make the most sense financially and the players that could go back.

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02-20-2012, 12:11 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
i dont think the rangers are getting him.

Sather doesnt get fleeced on deals, and the proposed deals being thrown around are VERY 1-sided in favor of the Jackets.

i think hes going to Los Angeles. They make the most sense financially and the players that could go back.
I really hope we don't get Nash

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02-20-2012, 12:12 PM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
"dime a dozen" for a 20-25 goal scorer in the NHL?
You know. The dime a dozen 25 goal, 6'3" 220+ forward who is also the fastest skater in the league. So many of them around.

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02-20-2012, 12:14 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
"dime a dozen" for a 20-25 goal scorer in the NHL?
Yeah, that's hilarious. If we had Kreider in the lineup right now and he was on pace for 20-25 I doubt the organization would even be speaking to Columbus about Nash. Like those players just grow on trees. We're talking about a player who would likely be the 4th leading goal scorer on this team. lol

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02-20-2012, 12:19 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by JoeRangers View Post
Listen his contract isnt great but lets not pretend hes that over paid. This isnt like a Gomez situation with Nash. The guy is a 35 goal 65 point player. Hes only overpaid by $1 - $1.5 million maybe. Not saying I want him but to say he has negative value and that Columbus would have to give the Rangers assets to take his contract is nonsense.
If he's overpaid by a million or 2 million, then he has negative value. Bobby Ryan has similar production, but is appropriately paid at just over 5m...that's 2.8m difference. Just using Ryan as an example here as there are a bunch of other similarly productive/similarly priced guys. But Ryan is infinitely more valuable because of his contract. In a salary capped league, it comes down to production per cap cost. This isn't the 90s where we can spend 100m and just acquire as much salary as we want. Nash does indeed have negative value due to his contract, and I wouldn't take that contract if he was handed to us for free, let alone give up assets for it.

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02-20-2012, 12:19 PM
  #221
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I'll repeat what I said in the previous thread:

Who is more valuable:

Player A
21-24 year old
6'3
220lb
Power Forward
Averages 20 goals and 45-50 points in those 3 seasons
Is paid 1.5 million/season


or

Player B
Age 27-30
6'4
220lb
Power Forward
Averages 35 goals and 70 points
Is paid 7.8 million/season

I know it's far more sexy to have the 70 point player but there is A LOT the Rangers could do with that other 6 million dollars.

Bang-for-your-buck

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02-20-2012, 12:20 PM
  #222
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You mean like the bounce we got on AA goal .
I hate NJD but I also am not in denial about us being that much better then them . Their Special teams on whole are considerably better than ours . Much better PP , and their PK is dangerous and as good lately .
NJD are a very legit threat and should be respected is all I'm saying
Can you explain to me if they're so great why they only have two more ROW than Carolina and the same exact amount of ROW as Tampa? Can you explain why without the skills competition they would be 16 points behind us (with us having a game in hand) and 7 points ahead of the last place Canes (albeit with a game in hand), they'd be 6 points ahead of Tampa, they'd be 7 points ahead of Montreal (albeit with a couple of games in hand). They'd be far closer to the bottom of the league than us if it wasn't for a league wide joke. It's like the Knicks being half way closer to the Heat because they were good at a 3 point contest or a game of horse. NJ is better than us in STs. Too bad that not many penalties get called anymore. Too bad the vast majority of the game is played 5 on 5. Even counting their better PP and PK, the Devils (without counting shootout points) have a -2 goal differential. We have a +46 goal differential, good for 3rd in the league. The even strength differential must be ridiculous. There's nothing to respect about a team that can't win without a gimmick and wouldn't in the same league as you without that gimmick.

With all of the gimmicks, if NJ and all of the #2 teams in the division with their games in hand, NJ would still be 2nd furthest #2 in the league behind the Northeast division, which is an utter joke outside of Vancouver.

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02-20-2012, 12:21 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thanks for proving my point. Its all about the situation.

Which makes the statement "Once youve made it known you're shopping a player, you've basically got to trade him" a bunch of baloney. All depends upon the situation. Im not saying Nash wont get traded, but I dont think it'll be at the deadline. What sense does it make for Columbus to rush this thing along and not get the package theyre looking for? Demand will be higher in the offseason.

Sometimes the hunger to see a trade happen drives people into a frenzy around here.
Columbus does not need to move him. He is on the market now because this is the time of year where teams are most likely to take a risk and overpay thinking that he is the missing piece to the holy grail. And my guess is LA or Toronto will take that step out of some sense of desparation. We, on the other hand, will likely be smart and only make the move if it preserves our prospect pool while improving our shot this year.

Dubi, Erixon, Thomas and a 2012 1st. I would do that deal for Nash if the cap hit can be managed; which I cannot speak to. He is a dynamic player who has to be tended to whenever he is on the ice. And his ability to get the puck, protect the puck and pass and shoot the puck are elite. That should be expected to help our dormant PP.

I would not deal McD, MDZ or Kreider for this player. And I really like Miller and would like to keep him unless we are getting one of the league;s best. I am one of those people who believes Thomas will score regularly in the NHL and that Erixon will be very good. But Nash's scoring ability lessens the need for Thomas and we have a glut of defenseman. If we had to add Zucc to get it done I would throw him in as well.

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02-20-2012, 12:21 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Fischler basically said on the Isles pre-game that he doesn't think Nash is getting dealt because they (CBJ) will only deal him if it's absurdly tilted in their favor.
I think Howson will end up digging himself into a hole with the way he is handling this. He was quoted saying how a few deals are getting close to what they are looking for. With that said, At this point you'd think Nash has to get traded. I feel the longer this process goes on, the more leverage Howson will lose. No team of the teams interested are desperate enough to pay what Howson is asking for right, especially with Nash's chunky cap hit. If there is a team desperate enough I'd say maybe the Kings? I Still think he ends up in LA considering the conditions and what they could offer.

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02-20-2012, 12:23 PM
  #225
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Rangers fans have such inflated opinions of prospects...you know, like Staal or Girardi could be All-Star defensemen, Callahan could become a captain, MDZ or McD could become quality top 4 D-men, or Derek Stepan could become a quality playmaking center...such unfounded notions for prospects.

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