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Rangers interested in Nash: Part III

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02-20-2012, 01:11 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Jackpot View Post
Girardi wasn't a Ranger prospect, they didn't even draft the guy for pete's sake..As for Staal, great example of over inflated, yeah he is/was a decent top pair stay at home defender, now with the emergence of McD paired with Girardi, does he ever get back there? If I were to go back through the last two - three years of postsnand say Staal would be replaced on the depth chart by another defensmen I'd get run out of town, so yes, great example of "over inflated".
As for McD, he again was never a Ranger prospect, Montreal prospect who in my opinion will go down in history of one of the most lopsided throw-in's in the history of a salary dump based trades....
Girardi was definitely a Rangers prospect. He didn't just sign and then play lights out in the NHL immediately.

Staal had a severe concussion and missed half of the season. He is getting his game back and is already close to playing 20+ minutes a night. He is still a top-pairing defenseman.

Sauer is an example of people just wanting to throw him away because he hadn't shown anything since he was 21 and all of a sudden he is a staple in the teams top-4 because they were patient.

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02-20-2012, 01:11 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Jackpot View Post
Girardi wasn't a Ranger prospect, they didn't even draft the guy for pete's sake..As for Staal, great example of over inflated, yeah he is/was a decent top pair stay at home defender, now with the emergence of McD paired with Girardi, does he ever get back there? If I were to go back through the last two - three years of postsnand say Staal would be replaced on the depth chart by another defensmen I'd get run out of town, so yes, great example of "over inflated".
As for McD, he again was never a Ranger prospect, Montreal prospect who in my opinion will go down in history of one of the most lopsided throw-in's in the history of a salary dump based trades....
Re-writing history to fit your mindset I see. Girardi was undrafted, and signed a free agent. That still makes him a prospect, as he still was developed through the Ranger system. McDonagh was acquired in 2009, and didn't make his pro debut until last year. Whose prospect would he have been in those two years, since he was no longer Montreal's prospect?

As for over-inflating what Staal is, most of the people on this board believed he could become a top-pairing shut down D-man, which he was last year. I think that Staal being passed on the depth chart by McDonagh and MDZ speaks more about their abilities and the ability of the Rangers ability to develop players and allow them to fulfill their potential than it does about Ranger fans over-inflating the value of the Ranger prospects. So, if the Rangers believe Chris Kreider can become a consistent 30-goal scorer in his career, I'm going to give the current group a chance to make good on that potential. Their track record is pretty good the past few years.


Last edited by jas: 02-20-2012 at 01:17 PM.
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02-20-2012, 01:13 PM
  #253
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What happened to LA not being on Nash's list? First they were, then they weren't, now they are again... This is worse than th multiple game clocks situation.

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02-20-2012, 01:14 PM
  #254
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If that Kings rumor is true, the Rangers should stay away - price is getting too high.

In the cap era you have to have young players come up and contribute, you can't afford enough of these Nash contracts to make it happen.

There must be some moderately clutch powerforward without the same pedigree available. D-man w/ point shot is still the biggest hole anyways.
I think that package is still a far cry from McDonagh, Dubi, Kreider and a first.

I think a comparable offer from us would be something like Dubinsky, Thomas, Sauer and a 1st or 2nd

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02-20-2012, 01:15 PM
  #255
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Kings making a big splash but they can afford to...I'd be happy if they did this so we can put an end to this ridiculousness. 7.8m cap hits are awful unless we're talking Stamkos Malkin Datsyuk or Ovechkin

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02-20-2012, 01:16 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Obviously most people will disagree with this assessment. Decent?
Above average...I like Staal, plays his ass off..But, he's not an elite defensemen in the NHL, solid is a word that comes to mind...

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02-20-2012, 01:17 PM
  #257
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That's true you never need to protect a lead and win a big draw to stop a game from going to overtime? Oops. Also, with the way we play I would expect most playoff games to be one goal affairs. Wouldn't it be nice to gain possession of the puck in the defensive zone most of the time instead of scrambling and hoping Hank comes up big? Also, offensively they are a push. Boyle is clueless in the O-zone.


Yes, because after you win the face-off the ref blows the whistle and you can change your "face-off specialist" because he is a liability defensively. Oops.

Please let me know when Konopka tops 10 points in ANY NHL season before you say there offense is a "push".

If you think Boyle is clueless in the offensive zone, you need to watch Konopka more often.

Gaustad + Boyle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Boyle + Konopka

Boyle >>>>>>>>>>>>Konopka

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02-20-2012, 01:20 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Jackpot View Post
Above average...I like Staal, plays his ass off..But, he's not an elite defensemen in the NHL, solid is a word that comes to mind...
Well, decent means fairly good or adequate. He is better than that. He's an all-star caliber dman. While not elite, he's beyond decent or above average.

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02-20-2012, 01:20 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by NYRangers16 View Post
7.8m cap hits are awful unless we're talking Stamkos Malkin Datsyuk or Ovechkin
At this point I would almost leave Ovechkin off that list.

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02-20-2012, 01:22 PM
  #260
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Kings fans apparently think it's a huge overpayment, but I think it's actually fair. Bernier will probably never be as good as Quick and Loktionov, although has potential, is undersized and may never have a noticeable impact in the NHL.
Without the "plus", that's not an overpayment. I'd go as far as to call that a steal for LA.

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02-20-2012, 01:22 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
At this point I would almost leave Ovechkin off that list.
Well, Ovechkin counts for 9, so yeah, that's a huge % of the cap.

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02-20-2012, 01:28 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Re-writing history to fit your mindset I see. Girardi was undrafted, and signed a free agent. That still makes him a prospect, as he still was developed through the Ranger system. McDonagh was acquired in 2009, and didn't make his pro debut until last year. Whose prospect would he have been in those two years, since he was no longer Montreal's prospect?

As for over-inflating what Staal is, most of the people on this board believed he could become a top-pairing shut down D-man, which he was last year. I think that Staal being passed on the depth chart by McDonagh and MDZ speaks more about their abilities and the ability of the Rangers ability to develop players and allow them to fulfill their potential than it does about Ranger fans over-inflating the value of the Ranger prospects. So, if the Rangers believe Chris Kreider can become a consistent 30-goal scorer in his career, I'm going to give the current group a chance to make good on that potential. Their track record is pretty good the past few years.
Not rewriting anything, guess we differ on what we're considering "Ranger prospects"...
As for Staal, once again, it would have been INCONCEIVABLE to post a defensive pairing without Staal on the first line. So far out of line you'd get flamed in hell throughout eternity!!!!! But yet, here we are... We can disagree about it all day, but I think it's a great example..

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02-20-2012, 01:29 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Re-writing history to fit your mindset I see. Girardi was undrafted, and signed a free agent. That still makes him a prospect, as he still was developed through the Ranger system. McDonagh was acquired in 2009, and didn't make his pro debut until last year. Whose prospect would he have been in those two years, since he was no longer Montreal's prospect?

As for over-inflating what Staal is, most of the people on this board believed he could become a top-pairing shut down D-man, which he was last year. I think that Staal being passed on the depth chart by McDonagh and MDZ speaks more about their abilities and the ability of the Rangers ability to develop players and allow them to fulfill their potential than it does about Ranger fans over-inflating the value of the Ranger prospects. So, if the Rangers believe Chris Kreider can become a consistent 30-goal scorer in his career, I'm going to give the current group a chance to make good on that potential. Their track record is pretty good the past few years.
I think Girardi passing Staal has a lot more to do with Staal having absolutely zero offseason work outs, pre season skating, and half a regular season. For a guy that likes to come to camp with a nice amount of extra muscle, he's stuck jumping into the line-up without lifting and strength training the last 5 months. No skating for 4 months. Staal's off-season workout regime is hardcore, and as the season passes and players slim down and breakdown muscle, he remains stronger than most. This year, there's little to no strength training in his bag, and there's zero strength training for players during a hockey season.

Just choose damn near any game from last season (especially against the Caps or Penguins, but even the NJD NYR from last season where he was giving Kovalchuk fits) and rewatch it. Girardi's got a great stick, and is strong and really smart. Staal dominates and eliminates top players.

This is like MDZ from last year. everyone has a shiny new toy, so the old one must not be as good. Staal's a top pairing guy. Next season if both he and Girardi come into camp at 100%, and we watch a few pre-season games, there won't be a single person on this board, aside from the most absolutely toe-headed, that will be calling for G to be logging more minutes than Staal.

This is the first thread I'm going to book-mark and subscribe. It will be interesting to revisit this early next season and see if I was talking out of my ***, or if those who disagree have a clue about quality defenders.

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02-20-2012, 01:33 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
I think that package is still a far cry from McDonagh, Dubi, Kreider and a first.

I think a comparable offer from us would be something like Dubinsky, Thomas, Sauer and a 1st or 2nd
Yea, I don't think either one of those packages is worth giving up for Nash.

Bernier & Loktionov are in the NHL already, Johnson is great, he's got issues still, but great skill set. Assume the + is a draft pick...May well be worth it for LA, but I agree Rangers packages are comparable, and not worth the sacrifice when the cap hit is so large.

They would still need young players to come up and contribute to win, especially when more dudes have their contracts come up.

The fact CBJ is trading Nash is a clear indication the contract is not worth it. He's paid like a top 10 guy in the league, and he's definitely not. Absent the salary cap, I'd say do it for sure.

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02-20-2012, 01:33 PM
  #265
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columbus should take it

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02-20-2012, 01:33 PM
  #266
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Not rewriting anything, guess we differ on what we're considering "Ranger prospects"...
As for Staal, once again, it would have been INCONCEIVABLE to post a defensive pairing without Staal on the first line. So far out of line you'd get flamed in hell throughout eternity!!!!! But yet, here we are... We can disagree about it all day, but I think it's a great example..
Um, Girardi has always been our prospeect. McDonagh was once Montreal's prospect, but after he got traded he was ours. I don't see anything to dispute here... that is fact

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02-20-2012, 01:36 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post
I think Girardi passing Staal has a lot more to do with Staal having absolutely zero offseason work outs, pre season skating, and half a regular season. For a guy that likes to come to camp with a nice amount of extra muscle, he's stuck jumping into the line-up without lifting and strength training the last 5 months. No skating for 4 months. Staal's off-season workout regime is hardcore, and as the season passes and players slim down and breakdown muscle, he remains stronger than most. This year, there's little to no strength training in his bag, and there's zero strength training for players during a hockey season.

Just choose damn near any game from last season (especially against the Caps or Penguins, but even the NJD NYR from last season where he was giving Kovalchuk fits) and rewatch it. Girardi's got a great stick, and is strong and really smart. Staal dominates and eliminates top players.

This is like MDZ from last year. everyone has a shiny new toy, so the old one must not be as good. Staal's a top pairing guy. Next season if both he and Girardi come into camp at 100%, and we watch a few pre-season games, there won't be a single person on this board, aside from the most absolutely toe-headed, that will be calling for G to be logging more minutes than Staal.

This is the first thread I'm going to book-mark and subscribe. It will be interesting to revisit this early next season and see if I was talking out of my ***, or if those who disagree have a clue about quality defenders.

You don't have to convince me of how good Staal is as a defender. Staal has an uncanny ability to separate the puck from the puck carrier through his stickwork and postitioning. No doubt the injury and lack of training camp has a lot to do with his play. But, let's not begrudge both MDZ and McD for what they've accomplished this season.

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02-20-2012, 01:38 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
columbus should take it
agreed. if that's really on the table, there's no reason why a deal shouldn't get done.

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02-20-2012, 01:38 PM
  #269
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Staal's defense was elite last season. I bet if you ask most GM's they would agree with me. If he was more gifted offensively he would get much, much more attention.

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02-20-2012, 01:46 PM
  #270
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Bernier & Loktionov are in the NHL already, Johnson is great, he's got issues still, but great skill set. Assume the + is a draft pick...May well be worth it for LA, but I agree Rangers packages are comparable, and not worth the sacrifice when the cap hit is so large.
I just don't see Bernier ever displacing Quick, so it seems like a non-factor me.

If you're getting Nash, does it matter that you're losing Loktionov?

Johnson is undoubtedly the worst defensive player on the Kings by a wide margin and it's not like he's making up for it with Mike Green levels of offense. He's looking at a career worst year on team that's supposed to be markedly better. He's also got 6 years remaining on an overvalued contract, same as Nash.

With these roster players and without Nash, CBJ is a worse team than they are today. I can't see how this deal gets done without multiple picks or an absolute no-miss prospect.

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02-20-2012, 01:47 PM
  #271
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At this point I would almost leave Ovechkin off that list.
probably right.

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02-20-2012, 01:50 PM
  #272
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Above average...I like Staal, plays his ass off..But, he's not an elite defensemen in the NHL, solid is a word that comes to mind...
Last year he was an all star with pedestrian offensive numbers. Therefore, defensively he is elite. Brooks Orpik is solid. Marc Staal is better than that.

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02-20-2012, 01:51 PM
  #273
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I just read,reported by Larry Brooks..thats CBJ asing price is ..Dubinsky,1 of MDZ or McDonagh,Kreider and a 1st..What the **** is this guy smoking...Nash topped 70 pts one time..Hes out of his ****ing mind..And Sather stats he is concerned about the asking price,not the salary. Nash with Richards and or Stepan can be wicked..but ill still pass unless it winds up being a steal.

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02-20-2012, 01:51 PM
  #274
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Girardi was definitely a Rangers prospect. He didn't just sign and then play lights out in the NHL immediately.

Staal had a severe concussion and missed half of the season. He is getting his game back and is already close to playing 20+ minutes a night. He is still a top-pairing defenseman.

Sauer is an example of people just wanting to throw him away because he hadn't shown anything since he was 21 and all of a sudden he is a staple in the teams top-4 because they were patient.
Staal had a concussion compounded by a cervical spine injury, you don't suffer a "severe" concussion and finish the season. As for Staal's progression, he's been cleared for full physical activity and contact for a couple of months now, while not at 100%, I don't think there's going to be some hair raising moment when you say, time to put Staal back on the top line...My point being, when will we as fans say Staal is back at 100%, and will Staal be a top pairing defensemen again? I guess more of a question, rather than a statement...Also a tad off topic, my apologies..

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02-20-2012, 01:52 PM
  #275
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i still say nash aint worth a big package of talent due to the fact his cap hit is so massive. any g-m giving up more than a pick, a decent player, and, a decent prospect, is crazy. there may be a g-m crazy enough, but i hope it's not sather.

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