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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread VI

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02-20-2012, 07:38 PM
  #151
riseandfall9
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
There's nothing wrong with losing Bernier or Johnson, it's adding more on top of that...I have an issue with it. Three roster players for Nash is loony.
I agree.... But adding more on top of that if its Loktionov or Vey and some other pieces I just don't see much value in them to our team.

If Bernier and Johnson is the Center of the deal and you can deal with it then the more would just be sweeteners dont think they will hold much more value. If its Toffolli or Voynov I would say heck no. But were talking about Loktionov and Vey right now so far.

Plus if Gagne was in the line up Loktionov would be in Manchester. Not sure if you can call that a roster spot. I guess its a grey area.

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02-20-2012, 07:39 PM
  #152
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I think Loktionov has potential, he just has to learn how to play at this level. The tight checking he's had to fight through has helped him a lot, I think he'll be a big part of this team.

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02-20-2012, 07:39 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
I agree.... But adding more on top of that if its Loktionov or Vey and some other pieces I just don't see much value in them to our team.

If Bernier and Johnson is the Center of the deal and you can deal with it then the more would just be sweeteners dont think they will hold much more value. If its Toffolli or Voynov I would say heck no. But were talking about Loktionov and Vey right now so far.
Bernier, Johnson, and a 2nd in 2013 for Nash is fair.

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02-20-2012, 07:39 PM
  #154
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I don't want to trade Johnson. Especially not for Nash.

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02-20-2012, 07:43 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by GoKingsGoo View Post
Bernier, Johnson, and a 2nd in 2013 for Nash is fair.
Your right.... But if Columbus says Vey or Loktionov need to be apart of that package are you really going to say "no" to the deal if they are included?

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02-20-2012, 07:44 PM
  #156
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I don't want to trade Johnson either, and I think he is hugely underrated by most of the posters here, but I do agree his is probably our best tradeable asset aside from Bernier.

I would be severely pissed if Loktionov is dealt. I think he has made great strides already this year and will be a really effective player. If he's dealt, prepare for Moulson-type angst being expressed on this board for years, IMO.

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02-20-2012, 07:46 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by King Richards View Post
I don't want to trade Johnson either, and I think he is hugely underrated by most of the posters here, but I do agree his is probably our best tradeable asset aside from Bernier.

I would be severely pissed if Loktionov is dealt. I think he has made great strides already this year and will be a really effective player. If he's dealt, prepare for Moulson-type angst being expressed on this board for years, IMO.
It would be worse than that, Loki is a mini Pavel Datsyuk in the making.

There are things he does in the game that look like Pavel. Plus Loki is slowly proving he can play at this level.

When Schenn was dealt (regardless of opinion) he had not proven he could be an NHL player. Vey has not proven anything I would not mind losing him.

Pavel Datsyuk only scored 35 points his first full season, Give Loki at least 100 NHL games before writing him off.


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02-20-2012, 07:47 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
There's nothing wrong with losing Bernier or Johnson, it's adding more on top of that...I have an issue with it. Three roster players for Nash is loony.
I would reluctantly add Loktionov or something like that. Sadly, he doesn't fit into our system or style of play.

A sad statistic is that of the 26 players that have scored a goal for the Kings this year, Kopitar, Brown, Richards, and Williams combine for 44% of them. Add in Gagne's seven goals and that accounts for 50% of the goals scored.

What does this team need? Well, a dynamic forward for starters. I don't think trading for Nash is a good idea, but if it does happen, here's what I would like to see:

Nash for Bernier, Johnson, and a non-roster player.

Knuble for a late pick.

Nash - Kopitar - Williams
Brown - Richards - King
Clifford - Loktionov - Lewis
Richardson - Stoll - Knuble

Scuderi - Doughty
Mitchell - Voynov
Martinez - Greene

Then park Knuble's ass in front of the goalie on the power play. Put Clifford there on the second unit.

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02-20-2012, 07:50 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
There's nothing wrong with losing Bernier or Johnson, it's adding more on top of that...I have an issue with it. Three roster players for Nash is loony.
Here's a little bit of a comparison.

Joe Thornton traded at the age of 26 by the Boston Bruins. Bruins got Marco Sturm(26), Brad Stuart(25), and Wayne Primeau(29).

Rick Nash is 27 right now. Now make the case of what Nash is worth at this point. Now I'd think this is the closest franchise player move. Both men were first round picks on teams that at that point were underachieving.

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02-20-2012, 07:50 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
Your right.... But if Columbus says Vey or Loktionov need to be apart of that package are you really going to say "no" to the deal if they are included?
I hope you do realize that many trades fall because of such requests? The details are important, otherwise everyone would just ask for a bit more and try to blackmail the team getting the best player.

So yeah, GM's DO say "No" if they feel that the previous offer was already fair enough. It's called negotiation.

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02-20-2012, 07:51 PM
  #161
riseandfall9
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
It would be worse than that, Loki is a mini Pavel Datsyuk in the making.

There are things he does in the game that look like Pavel. Plus Loki is slowly proving he can play at this level.

When Schenn was dealt (regardless of opinion) he had not proven he could be an NHL player. Vey has not proven anything I would not mind losing him.
Sadly...that could be one of the farthest stretches I have seen on the hf boards in a while.

Datsyuk is FAST and has hands that may never be seen in the NHL again. Loktionov has none of that. Only thing Datsyuk and Loktionov might have in common is they both of good on ice vision.

Wasn't Peter Harrold the next John Michael Liles?

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02-20-2012, 07:53 PM
  #162
riseandfall9
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Originally Posted by Nex06 View Post
I hope you do realize that many trades fall because of such requests? The details are important, otherwise everyone would just ask for a bit more and try to blackmail the team getting the best player.

So yeah, GM's DO say "No" if they feel that the previous offer was already fair enough. It's called negotiation.
I was asking IF HE(The Poster on HFBOARDS) not GM`s would really say no if they were included.

And I doubt DL or any other GM in the league says "no" because of Vey or Loktionov in a package for Nash... but that's an opinion.

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02-20-2012, 07:53 PM
  #163
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The kings need a shake up. Not rebuild, but a shake up.

I think I would rather shop JJ at this point for something similar to Connolly + Downie/Tedenby + Clarkson.

Not advocating those players but along those lines.

Nash is a good player, would love to have him but I dont see us outbidding NY. For whatever reason Howson values some of there prospects more than JJ it seems.

I think he really wants Philly's option but got greedy with them.

Who knows, maybe we end up with Carter for something like Bernier, Vey, and #1 after Nash is shipped off elsewhere.

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02-20-2012, 07:53 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by King Richards View Post
I would be severely pissed if Loktionov is dealt. I think he has made great strides already this year and will be a really effective player. If he's dealt, prepare for Moulson-type angst being expressed on this board for years, IMO.
Doubtful. For starters, we would actually have something to show for trading Loktionov, unlike losing Moulson for nothing.

I'm of the opinion that Loktionov is one of the most overrated guys on this Kings board. A farm center like MA Cliche could easily be doing what Loktionov is right now (2 goals, 4 assists in 37 games).

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02-20-2012, 07:55 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
Sadly...that could be one of the farthest stretches I have seen on the hf boards in a while.

Datsyuk is FAST and has hands that may never be seen in the NHL again. Loktionov has none of that. Only thing Datsyuk and Loktionov might have in common is they both of good on ice vision.

Wasn't Peter Harrold the next John Michael Liles?
You don't watch Loki play then, You are only looking at the Score sheet.

Loki has stripped pucks plenty of times this season, He does have very good puck handling skills.

He struggles with board battles, just like all young guys. I didn't say he was Pavel Datsyuk, I parts of his game look like plays Pavel makes.

That is not a stretch if you can get past him not scoring.

Pavel only scored 35 points in his first full season, And he was about 23 ?

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02-20-2012, 07:55 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
Only thing Datsyuk and Loktionov might have in common is they both of good on ice vision.
They are both Russian?

In all seriousness, I agree with you. Calling Loktionov the next Datsyuk is dumb.

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02-20-2012, 07:56 PM
  #167
riseandfall9
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Doubtful. For starters, we would actually have something to show for trading Loktionov, unlike losing Moulson for nothing.

I'm of the opinion that Loktionov is one of the most overrated guys on this Kings board. A farm center like MA Cliche could easily be doing what Loktionov is right now (2 goals, 4 assists in 37 games).
Did he even touch the puck with his stick for any of those goals? I thought one went off his Arm and one went off his Leg lol...

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02-20-2012, 07:56 PM
  #168
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Doubtful. For starters, we would actually have something to show for trading Loktionov, unlike losing Moulson for nothing.

I'm of the opinion that Loktionov is one of the most overrated guys on this Kings board. A farm center like MA Cliche could easily be doing what Loktionov is right now (2 goals, 4 assists in 37 games).

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02-20-2012, 07:58 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Go back to telling us how Loktionov is the next Datsyuk.

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02-20-2012, 07:59 PM
  #170
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Go back to telling us how Loktionov is the next Datsyuk.
Read post 165.

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02-20-2012, 07:59 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
I was asking IF HE(The Poster on HFBOARDS) not GM`s would really say no if they were included.
What's the difference? We are pretending to be GM's, don't we?

Quote:
And I doubt DL or any other GM in the league says "no" because of Vey or Loktionov in a package for Nash... but that's an opinion.
Nobody would say "no" because of that. But the way I understood your post was: "Ok, here is a fair value, but if they ask for a bit more, would you turn it down? It's Nash."

In my opinion Loktionov, Bernier and JJ is too much.

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02-20-2012, 08:00 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
You don't watch Loki play then, You are only looking at the Score sheet.

Loki has stripped pucks plenty of times this season, He does have very good puck handling skills.

He struggles with board battles, just like all young guys. I didn't say he was Pavel Datsyuk, I parts of his game look like plays Pavel makes.

That is not a stretch if you can get past him not scoring.

Pavel only scored 35 points in his first full season, And he was about 23 ?
I get what you're saying and I agree there are some similar elements there. Whatever the case, I'm hoping Lokti gets more time here.

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02-20-2012, 08:01 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
Who knows, maybe we end up with Carter for something like Bernier, Vey, and #1 after Nash is shipped off elsewhere.
Too much for Carter. They won't get closed to that. Bernier and maybe Martinez should get Carter. His value low.


Last edited by Scottkmlps: 02-20-2012 at 08:07 PM.
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02-20-2012, 08:02 PM
  #174
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I get what you're saying and I agree there are some similar elements there. Whatever the case, I'm hoping Lokti gets more time here.
Thank you, Give Loki at least 160 NHL games before we ship him out. And then he burns us for the Next 10 years in the West six times a Season.

Because giving up on guys (or trading them) with even the little amount of skill like, Pucell,Cammy,Lubo,Moulson. Has worked out sooooooo well Right ?

Jesus

Trevor Lewis has had how much time on the Kings ?

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02-20-2012, 08:04 PM
  #175
King Richards
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Kings fans in general are WAY too impatient with young (< 23) prospects based on the things I read here. Lokti may not be the next Pavel, but I think what damacles was trying to say is that there are aspects of his game that compare favorably to that type of player - on ice vision, hands, hockey IQ. The guy is 21 years old, he can barely buy a drink. Give him some time before saying he's a warm body that could be replaced by Cliche.

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