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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread VI

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02-20-2012, 08:32 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
All holes in the Roster are hard to fill.

You seen the Kings bottom six this year(yes that includes Loki). ?
Yes, I am very familiar with the bottom six. I also know the Gaustads, Stolls, Moores of the world are there for reasonable prices every off-season and trade deadline. How often are guys like Rick Nash out there to be had?

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02-20-2012, 08:32 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Seventyx7 View Post
I respect that view on it. I just don't believe the Lokti instead of Vey should be the reason we miss out on a player like Nash, who is exactly the player we need. A player who doesn't come around often. I don't want to trade Lokti, but a hole at 3rd line center is easier to fill than star winger.
It's exactly the reason why you might have to pass on a Nash deal. JJ, Bernier, and Lokti? What happens when Nash comes here and gets injured/turns into a 40 point player because of our system/doesn't mesh with our players/etc etc. There is a reason you don't discard your organizational depth lightly and chuck Loktionov into a deal as a throw-in, because he has the very real potential to be a talented homegrown guy for us. Losing three roster players like that is a HUGE hole to tear for only one individual whose name isn't Crosby, Datsyuk, Stamkos, etc

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02-20-2012, 08:33 PM
  #203
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FWIW, I think both Johnson and Bernier will be future all stars. Johnson will probably be the #1 guy over in CLB, which he'll never be here with DD present. I think JJ's the type of player who needs to be the "go-to guy". He could easily wear the "C" and wear it well imo.

Bernier just needs playing time. It's just that simple.

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02-20-2012, 08:35 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by King Richards View Post
It's exactly the reason why you might have to pass on a Nash deal. JJ, Bernier, and Lokti? What happens when Nash comes here and gets injured/turns into a 40 point player because of our system/doesn't mesh with our players/etc etc. There is a reason you don't discard your organizational depth lightly and chuck Loktionov into a deal as a throw-in, because he has the very real potential to be a talented homegrown guy for us. Losing three roster players like that is a HUGE hole to tear for only one individual whose name isn't Crosby, Datsyuk, Stamkos, etc
Exactly. How is that throw in Purcell working out ? Sure would good in the top six right about now.

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02-20-2012, 08:36 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by King Richards View Post
It's exactly the reason why you might have to pass on a Nash deal. JJ, Bernier, and Lokti? What happens when Nash comes here and gets injured/turns into a 40 point player because of our system/doesn't mesh with our players/etc etc. There is a reason you don't discard your organizational depth lightly and chuck Loktionov into a deal as a throw-in, because he has the very real potential to be a talented homegrown guy for us. Losing three roster players like that is a HUGE hole to tear for only one individual whose name isn't Crosby, Datsyuk, Stamkos, etc
Throw-in? Show me where I said Lokti was a throw-in. I am a Lokti fan, and do not WANT to trade him; 99% of the time I am all about the patience, wait for him to develop etc. However, I believe JJ and Bernier can be (more or less) replaced. I wouldn't let Lokti be the deal breaker in acquiring what I believe, right or wrong, to be a real difference maker. We keep Toffoli, our most important prospect. And Nash replaces Lokti as a forward in the lineup. If you're afraid Nash is going to get hurt or suck here, then I guess we will never acquire anyone of substance.

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02-20-2012, 08:37 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Exactly. How is that throw in Purcell working out ? Sure would good in the top six right about now.
Ridiculous. Comparing Nash and Jeff Halpern. Makes a lot of sense.

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02-20-2012, 08:37 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
All holes in the Roster are hard to fill.

You seen the Kings bottom six this year(yes that includes Loki). ?
He means its more difficult to get a Super Star scoring Winger then it is to get a 3rd line center. 3rd Line centers are on the market every year during free agency and there is a few in Manchester too. But when Star players are on Free Agency we can never get them. Plus trading Loktionov now doesn't create a hole in the 3rd line center position because Stoll is still here for now. And if Stoll doesn't get traded at the deadline then we have the rest of the season + the summer to evaluate where we want to go in that position for the future.

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02-20-2012, 08:39 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Exactly. How is that throw in Purcell working out ? Sure would good in the top six right about now.
There was no room for Purcell at the time as we had Brownie, Williams and Simmer all on the RW. It was a terrible trade but he had no future with the kings as he couldn't play LW.

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02-20-2012, 08:40 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Seventyx7 View Post
Throw-in? Show me where I said Lokti was a throw-in. I am a Lokti fan, and do not WANT to trade him; 99% of the time I am all about the patience, wait for him to develop etc. However, I believe JJ and Bernier can be (more or less) replaced. I wouldn't let Lokti be the deal breaker in acquiring what I believe, right or wrong, to be a real difference maker. We keep Toffoli, our most important prospect. And Nash replaces Lokti as a forward in the lineup. If you're afraid Nash is going to get hurt or suck here, then I guess we will never acquire anyone of substance.
We simply hold different opinions. You think that it is easy for an organization to replace 3 roster players, including a 21 year old with a ton of potential, for one player in return. I'm playing devil's advocate and suggesting that this is the exact reason why deals fall apart. As someone said earlier, these details are absolutely critical when a GM is weighing his trade options.

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02-20-2012, 08:44 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by King Richards View Post
We simply hold different opinions. You think that it is easy for an organization to replace 3 roster players, including a 21 year old with a ton of potential, for one player in return. I'm playing devil's advocate and suggesting that this is the exact reason why deals fall apart. As someone said earlier, these details are absolutely critical when a GM is weighing his trade options.
I think it's easier to replace a center with 2 goals on the season (who again, I like), a d-man who is a career -90 (who I also like but can be easily replaced with VV), and our back-up who never plays than get a star winger. Proof of this is the fact that after six years, Kopitar is playing with Dwight King.

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02-20-2012, 08:46 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by King Richards View Post
It's exactly the reason why you might have to pass on a Nash deal. JJ, Bernier, and Lokti? What happens when Nash comes here and gets injured/turns into a 40 point player because of our system/doesn't mesh with our players/etc etc. There is a reason you don't discard your organizational depth lightly and chuck Loktionov into a deal as a throw-in, because he has the very real potential to be a talented homegrown guy for us. Losing three roster players like that is a HUGE hole to tear for only one individual whose name isn't Crosby, Datsyuk, Stamkos, etc
Cant really predict how he will do in our system. I don't think any of us have watched Rick Nash as religiously as we watch our own team to make that assessment. You just gotta trust in the scouts and management to make that assessment.

As far as the injury issues. There is no evidence to prove that will happen. In 656 games he has only missed 65 games. That is usually an assessment you make on a guy like Gagne who has a real long history of injuries. On the same wave length injuries are just that you can never predict any freak injuries but based on the last 8 and a half seasons Rick Nash hasn't had any serious injuries and the games he has missed are usually tweaks in the back or soreness that is normal in the NHL season.

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02-20-2012, 08:46 PM
  #212
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What would it cost to bring in Andrei Kostitsyn? Definitely top 6 and probably not for too much

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02-20-2012, 08:48 PM
  #213
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I have a feeling trading for Nash will backfire big time

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02-20-2012, 08:50 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Seventyx7 View Post
I think it's easier to replace a center with 2 goals on the season (who again, I like), a d-man who is a career -90 (who I also like but can be easily replaced with VV), and our back-up who never plays than get a star winger. Proof of this is the fact that after six years, Kopitar is playing with Dwight King.
You can blame Dean for Trading Cammy to begin with.... Kopitar/King problem solved.

You don't trade(or give up on) Roster players Willy Nilly. Lubo,Cammy,Frolov,Zues,Symth,Purcell,Moulson, Simmer,Schenn.

Cammy is cheaper than Nash too....

Ouch lol Dean won't like that one.

How Ironic would that be? That Dean has to give up a ton of assest and pay Nash more, All he had to do is Keep Frolov and Cammy around.

Where is Herby ...He would LOVE the Irony in that. PSP ? where are ya ?

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02-20-2012, 08:51 PM
  #215
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I have a feeling trading for Nash will backfire big time
I have the same feeling...

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02-20-2012, 08:52 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
What would it cost to bring in Andrei Kostitsyn? Definitely top 6 and probably not for too much
He'd most likely be a rental, so hopefully not too much. But if the trade boards are any indication, the habs fans seem to want an over payment.

I'm all for AK becoming a king for the right price.

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02-20-2012, 08:53 PM
  #217
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I have a feeling trading for Nash will backfire big time
considering DL's track record on trades it would be the norm if it did backfire.

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02-20-2012, 08:53 PM
  #218
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Bernier has to be traded for a top 6 scoring forward.

If we don't trade him and Quick goes down with an injury... Sure, we still have a decent goalie, but the team still won't be able to score which means we will lose just as much and it won't really solve anything. I would rather use a worse goalie with our defense bailing him out and be able to score rather than get shutout every other game.

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02-20-2012, 08:55 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
You can blame Dean for Trading Cammy to begin with.... Kopitar/King problem solved.

You don't trade(or give up on) Roster players Willy Nilly. Lubo,Cammy,Frolov,Zues,Symth,Purcell,Moulson, Simmer,Schenn.

Cammy is cheaper than Nash too....

Ouch lol Dean won't like that one.

How Ironic would that be? That Dean has to give up a ton of assest and pay Nash more, All he had to do is Keep Frolov and Cammy around.

Were is Herby ...He would LOVE the Irony in that. PSP ? where are ya ?
Oh I thought we were talking about Rick Nash, not about you being upset Smyth asked for a trade, Zues was a UFA, Moulson and Purcell weren't established players here. Cammy was a mistake, it happens, get over it. I don't see how that pertains to what you are ok giving up for Nash. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

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02-20-2012, 08:56 PM
  #220
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considering DL's track record on trades it would be the norm if it did backfire.
That very same track record of Kings trades backfiring is the same reason there is so much anxiety on trading for Nash or Carter or whoever they get. But at the same time you cant stop trading... Where does that get you?

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02-20-2012, 08:57 PM
  #221
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That very same track record of Kings trades backfiring is the same reason there is so much anxiety on trading for Nash or Carter or whoever they get. But at the same time you cant stop trading... Where does that get you?
Read my post above.....

Maybe Dean should stop trading lol... That is a lot of Roster players Gone that have track records of production(not all of them but it's a good amount).

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02-20-2012, 08:59 PM
  #222
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Oh I thought we were talking about Rick Nash, not about you being upset Smyth asked for a trade, Zues was a UFA, Moulson and Purcell weren't established players here. Cammy was a mistake, it happens, get over it. I don't see how that pertains to what you are ok giving up for Nash. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.
I am not upset, I just find it funny.

That had Dean given Cammy what he wanted. And kept a couple people around....

He might not be in this bind....

That is funny.

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02-20-2012, 09:11 PM
  #223
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He'd most likely be a rental, so hopefully not too much. But if the trade boards are any indication, the habs fans seem to want an over payment.

I'm all for AK becoming a king for the right price.
Since I don't think hes the favorite son among Montreal brass would a 2013 2nd or 3rd with a later pick or decent prospect be enough?

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02-20-2012, 09:12 PM
  #224
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I am pretty sure Herby predicted this Like Three years ago,

I will have to find the thread. But he said Lombardi would have to overpay to fill that LW hole. And that it would be the last move he makes as the GM.

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02-20-2012, 09:13 PM
  #225
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Oh I thought we were talking about Rick Nash, not about you being upset Smyth asked for a trade, Zues was a UFA, Moulson and Purcell weren't established players here. Cammy was a mistake, it happens, get over it. I don't see how that pertains to what you are ok giving up for Nash. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.
Moulson was doing fine he had 4 goals and 2 assists in his first 12 or so games with the Kings... Then the COACH started throwing him into situations(mainly a checking forward that isn't his game) where he couldn't play his game and then he lost some confidence and got another goal in the next 10 games. COACH lost confidence in him and gave him another 7 games and at that time the COACH decided that Moulson could be replaced by Purcell who was coming off a decent showing. Then the COACH did the same thing he did to Moulson to Purcell and Purcell got traded for a player that COACH felt was of need. Coaches play just as important roles in roster players as GM`s... There input is very important to GM`s and in this case DL took what TM said and made a decision he thought was right.

Cammy was a totally different case altogether. Cammy went through a nasty arbitration with DL and the Kings, Cammy was very unhappy with the outcome. In my opinion DL had to trade Cammy or else he was going to loose Cammy for nothing anyways. I don't think Cammy would have stayed and if he did stay I don't think the Kings would have been comfortable paying him 6 million dollars a year because he wasn't even close to that at the time. And anyone that says they rather have Cammy for a 6 million cap hit, 2 years older, 7 inches shorter and far more one dimensional then Nash for 1.8 million less is out of there mind. Not to mention Nash is feared enough in the league that teams would focus more on him to make more room for other players. Cammy doesn't have that quality. On top of that if the Teubert project worked out nobody here would even say a peep about Cammy lol.

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