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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread VI

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Old
02-20-2012, 09:48 PM
  #251
riseandfall9
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
My sense is that Carter will not be traded for that much less than Nash. Howson is not under any pressure to trade Carter and he HAS to get a good return given what he gave up for him just a few months ago.

Everyone needs to realize that Columbus is not having a fire sale. They will move players ONLY if the return is right. Considering that he is dealing with an increasingly desperate Lombardi, the price is going to be very very high.

Howson is under extreme pressure. And Columbus is having a fire sale. A few weeks ago Bob Miller said during the game when we were playing CBJ that the OWNER of the CBJ wanted to blow the team up but Howson wanted to make a few tweaks. So if CBJ is entertaining trading Nash then that means the owner is doing what he wants and that's to blow the team up. And Howson has to do what he`s told even though he doesn't want it to go that direction. And when you do things you dont want to do there is usually pressure. In a GM`s world that is extreme pressure.

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02-20-2012, 09:51 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
Howson is under extreme pressure. And Columbus is having a fire sale. A few weeks ago Bob Miller said during the game when we were playing CBJ that the OWNER of the CBJ wanted to blow the team up but Howson wanted to make a tweak. So if CBJ is entertaining trading Nash then that means the owner is doing what he wants and that's the to blow the team up. And Howson has to do what he`s told even though he doesn't want it to go that direction.
we'll know in a week. I don't believe that "blowing the team up" necessarily means icing an AHL caliber team after all the star players are traded. Every indication has been that Howson's asking price is very very high. Who will blink first? we'll see.

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02-20-2012, 09:52 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Sign me up.
Without even knowing the price? Do you go to the grocery store and just pull things off the shelf without looking at the cost?

I want to see what Nash/Carter cost before I sign off my own personal approval.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belanger25 View Post
Here's a little bit of a comparison.

Joe Thornton traded at the age of 26 by the Boston Bruins. Bruins got Marco Sturm(26), Brad Stuart(25), and Wayne Primeau(29).

Rick Nash is 27 right now. Now make the case of what Nash is worth at this point. Now I'd think this is the closest franchise player move. Both men were first round picks on teams that at that point were underachieving.
One difference in Thornton is that many teams didn't even know he was available. Here, the world knows he's available. Also, Thornton wasn't limited in the teams he could be traded too, where as Nash has made a list of 5-6 teams.

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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
This year could be DL's last year as our GM. If I were you guys, I'd brace for an over payment.
Based on what? In DL's last season in San jose did he do a "save my own ass" trade? No.

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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
even if lotki does develops into the player we think he is capable of. do we have a 3rd line center making 5+ million.
So you wait until he beomes a $5 mill player and trade him then. Instead, we can trade him now and have everyone ***** about how we traded away a very good player 2-3 years from now... Even if he costs $5 million a season at that point.

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Originally Posted by Seventyx7 View Post
Ridiculous. Comparing Nash and Jeff Halpern. Makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, because he was comparing Halpern and Nash. He's stating the error of adding players to trades that could come back and bite you in the ass later... like Purcell did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
I have a feeling trading for Nash will backfire big time
As do I.

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Old
02-20-2012, 09:52 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Seventyx7 View Post
I don't think Voynov can play 23 minutes/game, so maybe easily replaced was going too far. The strength of our system is defense, and Jack's below average defense (although improving under Sutter) will be easier to fill than a star winger.
I dont think Voynov can play 23 mins a game NOW. But I am not sure he needs to do that now anyways with Scuderi and Doughty. He just needs to play his usual 18 mins and play the way he has been.

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Old
02-20-2012, 09:53 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
At the time that Kopitar got his contract he was literally the only bright spot in our organization. Patrick O`Sullivan was the only player we had high hopes for. There was really no Quick.. no Doughty... Johnson was still pretty new. So you needed to lock up Kopitar even if it was a million dollars over payment. Thats the same situation with Rick Nash... Nash got that contract because hes been the only bright spot in that organization for the last 8 years and they needed to lock him up or risk a Kovalchuk, Gaborik situation where players run for bigger markets.

I have read your post a few times and still am not sure if you are on the Kopitar is OVER PAID side or the Kopitar earns his contract side. But I will say this Kopitar`s value the team was blatant last year when he went down with the broken ankle before playoffs. The team played way better then expected because they knew how important he was and that they needed to step up. If Kopitar didn't get injured we most likely would have been in the 2nd round last year but now we will never know.
Just before Kopitar signed his contract, Eric Staal signed for 8.25M, Lecavalier for 7.7M, and Malkin for 8.7M.

That really drove up the Market for youngish centers. Kopitar's 6.8M is about right when you look at those contracts. Stastny signed for 6.6M a month after Kopitar signed.

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Old
02-20-2012, 09:53 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Malakian#13 View Post
Ziggy Palffy.
Why not? Ziggy is 39 but probably could score more than Penner.

There is also our boy #24 Alexanderrr Frolov. He is only 29 but alas he only has 21 points for Omsk in 51 games. Esa Pirnes and Bednar are still playing in Europe and could do more damage than Stoll or Richardson.

Holloway is doing well in the SEL and Moller could also contribute. How did DL manage to chase these guys off in favor of Hunter, Moreau, and Parse?

Time to pray that Toffoli and Kitsyn pan out.

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Old
02-20-2012, 09:54 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
At the time that Kopitar got his contract he was literally the only bright spot in our organization. Patrick O`Sullivan was the only player we had high hopes for. There was really no Quick.. no Doughty... Johnson was still pretty new. So you needed to lock up Kopitar even if it was a million dollars over payment. Thats the same situation with Rick Nash... Nash got that contract because hes been the only bright spot in that organization for the last 8 years and they needed to lock him up or risk a Kovalchuk, Gaborik situation where players run for bigger markets.

I have read your post a few times and still am not sure if you are on the Kopitar is OVER PAID side or the Kopitar earns his contract side. But I will say this Kopitar`s value the team was blatant last year when he went down with the broken ankle before playoffs. The team played way better then expected because they knew how important he was and that they needed to step up. If Kopitar didn't get injured we most likely would have been in the 2nd round last year but now we will never know.
I agree with you that player values are relative, that is why you haven't been able to get my opinion from the post. I simply want to find those say that Kopitar is overpaid (but we are stuck with him) and at the same time advocate trading for much more overpaid Nash. I do hope we all agree that Nash IS more overpaid than Kopitar at least.

Very often I find that in trade threads we only talk about players and maybe sometimes also about draft picks. But NHL trading is not just that. When you trade players, you trade also
their contracts. I am not a big fan of the contract Nash has. What if he doesn't meet the expectations we all have for him? It was painful enough with Penner, now imagine the much worse situation we would have with Nash. I am worried. It's a risky move that has the potential to completely destroy Kings chances for success until his contract runs out. If his contract had 6.3M cap hit, I would be all over him.

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Old
02-20-2012, 09:54 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
very childish response. at least support your "comment" with some facts.
It was supposed to be a joke. No offense intended.

But I think Howsen is under extreme pressure to trade Carter. Considering he's in the news for all the wrong reasons, and the fact that the owner wants to blow things up, Carter would be the first to go. Jeff Carter is not the type of forward you want mentoring a young team.

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Old
02-20-2012, 09:55 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
My sense is that Carter will not be traded for that much less than Nash. Howson is not under any pressure to trade Carter and he HAS to get a good return given what he gave up for him just a few months ago.
That's not how Aaron Portzline made it sound.

Quote:
Everyone needs to realize that Columbus is not having a fire sale. They will move players ONLY if the return is right. Considering that he is dealing with an increasingly desperate Lombardi, the price is going to be very very high.
If they trade Nash, I think they're going nuclear.

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Old
02-20-2012, 09:58 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by GoKingsGoo View Post
It was supposed to be a joke. No offense intended.

But I think Howsen is under extreme pressure to trade Carter. Considering he's in the news for all the wrong reasons, and the fact that the owner wants to blow things up, Carter would be the first to go. Jeff Carter is not the type of forward you want mentoring a young team.
no problem...emotions are running high these days.

Carter is an interesting situation...he is unhappy now but the team could just tell him to man up since they don't plan on moving him. There is also the fact that he and Nash are probably the only 30 goal scorers available at the trading deadline this year. Seller's market for sure.

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02-20-2012, 10:00 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Just before Kopitar signed his contract, Eric Staal signed for 8.25M, Lecavalier for 7.7M, and Malkin for 8.7M.

That really drove up the Market for youngish centers. Kopitar's 6.8M is about right when you look at those contracts. Stastny signed for 6.6M a month after Kopitar signed.
Yeah, defiantly I was going to mention that but I wanted to keep it relevant to his post because he mentioned Nash and Kopitar`s salary in the post. I was also going to mention Kane and Toews contracts along with Statny`s as well but didnt want the thread to get off track already got warned about it in another thread lol...

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Old
02-20-2012, 10:00 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
That's not how Aaron Portzline made it sound.


If they trade Nash, I think they're going nuclear.
What was the Portzline comment? I haven't heard it.

Trading Nash could be a huge benefit to Columbus if they get a huge return for him. They can't afford to give him away. What do you tell your fan base and season seat holders if you just give away Carter and Nash? They also have to worry about reaching the cap floor if they don't get back players like Johnson.

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02-20-2012, 10:04 PM
  #263
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when will you Nash fan-boys realize that one player is not the answer?
jesus

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Old
02-20-2012, 10:06 PM
  #264
riseandfall9
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Originally Posted by Nex06 View Post
I agree with you that player values are relative, that is why you haven't been able to get my opinion from the post. I simply want to find those say that Kopitar is overpaid (but we are stuck with him) and at the same time advocate trading for much more overpaid Nash. I do hope we all agree that Nash IS more overpaid than Kopitar at least.

Very often I find that in trade threads we only talk about players and maybe sometimes also about draft picks. But NHL trading is not just that. When you trade players, you trade also
their contracts. I am not a big fan of the contract Nash has. What if he doesn't meet the expectations we all have for him? It was painful enough with Penner, now imagine the much worse situation we would have with Nash. I am worried. It's a risky move that has the potential to completely destroy Kings chances for success until his contract runs out. If his contract had 6.3M cap hit, I would be all over him.
I don't think I have ever felt like "oh man were stuck with Kopitar" Yeah both Nash and Kopitar are over paid but not by much. Were talking about maybe 1 to 1.3 million on the cap here. Which really isn't a big deal at all. Sometimes that's what you need to do to keep your players. I mean James Neal is about to break 60 points for the first time in his career playing next to a red hot Malkin and he just got paid 5 million dollars a year. Kopitar is yet to score less then 60 points in a season.

Maybe it would be worth pulling up the thread when Kopitar got his extension and seeing who has changed there minds since then. I know I am not one of them.

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02-20-2012, 10:07 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post

So you wait until he beomes a $5 mill player and trade him then. Instead, we can trade him now and have everyone ***** about how we traded away a very good player 2-3 years from now... Even if he costs $5 million a season at that point.
i meant richards being the 5 million 3rd line center. we have kopi and richards signed long term and i dont see lotki being a center that can carry the scoring alone on the 3rd line.

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02-20-2012, 10:11 PM
  #266
riseandfall9
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
we'll know in a week. I don't believe that "blowing the team up" necessarily means icing an AHL caliber team after all the star players are traded. Every indication has been that Howson's asking price is very very high. Who will blink first? we'll see.
The cap floor makes it a little more difficult to ice an AHL caliber team. Assuming they are going the Edmonton Oilers route where they are trying to develop young guys and still be bad enough to add some impact draft picks... I think that's the main goal of the rebuilding and blowing the team up. And assuming they get Johnson and Bernier and whoever they get for Carter along with a few vets like Prospal and Tyutin they might even be going the LA Kings route that's how we started right?

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02-20-2012, 10:12 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
The cap floor makes it a little more difficult to ice an AHL caliber team. Assuming they are going the Edmonton Oilers route where they are trying to develop young guys and still be bad enough to add some impact draft picks... I think that's the main goal of the rebuilding and blowing the team up. And assuming they get Johnson and Bernier and whoever they get for Carter along with a few vets like Prospal and Tyutin they might even be going the LA Kings route that's how we started right?
Yes, as long as they get back players like Johnson and Bernier they will be fine.

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02-20-2012, 10:15 PM
  #268
riseandfall9
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Yes, as long as they get back players like Johnson and Bernier they will be fine.
Thought you were saying they arnt going to trade Carter or Nash and ice an AHL team. My bad.

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Old
02-20-2012, 10:22 PM
  #269
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Loktionov is quickly turning into a key trade piece.

Kopitar and Richards are #1 and #2 longterm. Loktionov should be a #2 somewhere in this league in the next few years. I like the kid but at this point trading from strength means guys like Bernier, Loktionov and our defense.

Would Loktionov not look good beside Nail?

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Old
02-20-2012, 10:29 PM
  #270
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Loktionov is quickly turning into a key trade piece.

Kopitar and Richards are #1 and #2 longterm. Loktionov should be a #2 somewhere in this league in the next few years. I like the kid but at this point trading from strength means guys like Bernier, Loktionov and our defense.

Would Loktionov not look good beside Nail?
That is the problem.

Loktionov even if he turns into the player that we all think he can be he cant do it on the 3rd line. And its the same situation as Bernier. I cant see Bernier even in the next 5 years taking over Quick`s job, maybe if Quick was 36 years old you would never consider moving Bernier like Thomas and Rask. I cant see Loktionov taking Kopitar or Richards job either. Its crazy.... I like the guy and I think he has potential but where is it going? Kopitar is 24 and Richards is 26 and again they arnt 33 or 35.

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02-20-2012, 10:31 PM
  #271
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This thread gives me a headache.

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Old
02-20-2012, 10:43 PM
  #272
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This thread gives me a headache.
Just take two aspirin and call me after the trade deadline...

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Old
02-20-2012, 10:52 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
That is the problem.

Loktionov even if he turns into the player that we all think he can be he cant do it on the 3rd line. And its the same situation as Bernier. I cant see Bernier even in the next 5 years taking over Quick`s job, maybe if Quick was 36 years old you would never consider moving Bernier like Thomas and Rask. I cant see Loktionov taking Kopitar or Richards job either. Its crazy.... I like the guy and I think he has potential but where is it going? Kopitar is 24 and Richards is 26 and again they arnt 33 or 35.
Thinking that much ahead is usually not a good thing, especially when it leads to trades. That is why GM's draft the best player, not the position they think they will need in 4 years.

Remember, Purcell was penciled as number one winger by Lombardi long time ago.

Loktionov's trade value will be higher in 2 years, I don't think it's wise to trade him right now.

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Old
02-20-2012, 11:07 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by theMajor View Post


when will you Nash fan-boys realize that one player is not the answer?
jesus
No not the complete answer, but he could be what LA has been looking for the last 5 years and can't get through free agency.

I still think LA ends up with Carter.

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Old
02-20-2012, 11:08 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
No not the complete answer, but he could be what LA has been looking for the last 5 years and can't get through free agency.

I still think LA ends up with Carter.

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