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Old
02-20-2012, 09:59 PM
  #51
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I LOL'd at cancer. Maybe I shouldn't have but..."day to day with cancer"..."pre-cancer"...awesome stuff.

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02-20-2012, 10:17 PM
  #52
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Wouldn't Saku Koivu be out if it was a family issue? Is Mikko married? I didn't think he was.

But it is starting to get really annoying. We had to deal with Gaborik and now Koivu?

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02-20-2012, 10:25 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Wouldn't Saku Koivu be out if it was a family issue? Is Mikko married? I didn't think he was.

But it is starting to get really annoying. We had to deal with Gaborik and now Koivu?
The difference is Gabby hurt himself playing hacky sack. Koivu was hurt by getting checked into the boards.

At least when Gabby was hurt, it was one player constantly injured. As of now, Butch and Lats have been impossible with injuries, and Koivu is having a sucky year with them as well. And yet, all those three guys had injuries that were out of their control. You can't put it on them for getting concussions or getting your shoulder messed up on a play. Gabby (with the weakest groin ever) hurt himself kicking around a bag of rice.

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02-20-2012, 10:32 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post
The difference is Gabby hurt himself playing hacky sack. Koivu was hurt by getting checked into the boards.
Both aren't reliable to build a franchise around though.

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At least when Gabby was hurt, it was one player constantly injured.
Kind of. But he was also the only talented player on the Wild roster.

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As of now, Butch and Lats have been impossible with injuries, and Koivu is having a sucky year with them as well.
Not surprised. Koivu cashed in on his one good year.

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02-20-2012, 10:50 PM
  #55
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Both aren't reliable to build a franchise around though.
Perhaps, but the only way you're going to get a guy to really build this franchise around is by tanking and picking #1 or #2. Or giving up the entire prospect pool with the hope of moving up to those two spots. Cripes. Even Nash isn't worth building a franchise around.

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Not surprised. Koivu cashed in on his one good year.
So he intended to spend this year out hurt? If he was taking it easy, you'd think he'd be avoiding the injuries, no? Not saying the guy is an angel by any means, but what are you suppose to do when your shoulder gets #@$!ed up? If he waits till it's healthy, people gripe about how he's taking too long. If he rushes back, he gets re-injured and people gripe about how he's out again. It's a damned if you, damned if you don't situation. Yeah, he was hurt last year too, but he got hurt by blocking a shot. That silly guy. What was he thinking?

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02-20-2012, 10:59 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post
Perhaps, but the only way you're going to get a guy to really build this franchise around is by tanking and picking #1 or #2. Or giving up the entire prospect pool with the hope of moving up to those two spots. Cripes. Even Nash isn't worth building a franchise around.
Actually I think you could build a team around a one-two punch of Phillips and Granlund. And have Coyle as the captain with Zucker as the A.

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So he intended to spend this year out hurt? Not saying the guy is an angel by any means, but what are you suppose to do when your shoulder gets #@$!ed up?
Koivu hasn't been healthy the past two years. That's the problem. He hasn't been healing and it might be because he's been pushing himself. It's like Joe Mauer.

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If he waits till it's healthy, people gripe about how he's taking too long. If he rushes back, he gets re-injured and people gripe about how he's out again. It's a damned if you, damned if you don't situation.
Who the hell cares at this point? Koivu needs to get healthy, period. If that means shelving him for the rest of the year, he needs to be out.

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02-20-2012, 11:03 PM
  #57
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Actually I think you could build a team around a one-two punch of Phillips and Granlund. And have Coyle as the captain with Zucker as the A.
That would be a long time down the road though. Those kids are going to need some time to learn.


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Koivu hasn't been healthy the past two years. That's the problem. He hasn't been healing and it might be because he's been pushing himself. It's like Joe Mauer.
Agreed. And I think the pressure is that much higher, because Lats and Butch are out. If we had most of our top 6 forwards healthy, Koivu should have been benched long term to heal properly. But this year has been a huge @$#!-up of injuries. And with them desperate for a playoff push, you can bet Koivu was pushing himself as well as feeling pressure from others to rush back.


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Who the hell cares at this point? Koivu needs to get healthy, period. If that means shelving him for the rest of the year, he needs to be out.
I wouldn't be against that at this point. Start over next year with all the injured guys fully healthy.

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02-20-2012, 11:06 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post
That would be a long time down the road though. Those kids are going to need some time to learn.
Phillips, definitely. Granlund not so much.

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Agreed. And I think the pressure is that much higher, because Lats and Butch are out. If we had most of our top 6 forwards healthy, Koivu should have been benched long term to heal properly. But this year has been a huge @$#!-up of injuries. And with them desperate for a playoff push, you can bet Koivu was pushing himself as well as feeling pressure from others to rush back.
It isn't any different the last few years. We shouldn't be relying on Bouchard or Lats actually because they haven't shown the ability to stay healthy.

Right now, Koivu's priority should be to himself.

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I wouldn't be against that at this point. Start over next year with all the injured guys fully healthy.
But also make sure Koivu is no longer captain nor 1st line material until he can show he's healthy and can score at a point per game for the rest of the year.

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02-20-2012, 11:11 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
It isn't any different the last few years. We shouldn't be relying on Bouchard or Lats actually because they haven't shown the ability to stay healthy.

Right now, Koivu's priority should be to himself.
But it's probably not. He's competitive, and is probably looking at the team instead of himself. I would hope there's a healthy balance of both. His priority shouldn't all be about himself or else he'd be Zidlicky.


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But also make sure Koivu is no longer captain nor 1st line material until he can show he's healthy and can score at a point per game for the rest of the year.
Being healthy and scoring a point per game doesn't mean a player would make a great captain.....nor should it be a requirement. I can remember sooooo many people wanting Cullen and Brodz to be captains during their hot streaks. Certainly not point per game players anymore. Yes, Koivu is paid a boat load more money, but again...that should have nothing to do with having a letter either. When it comes to the letters, there are things there that we the fans don't always get to see (in regards to why the player earned them.)

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02-20-2012, 11:13 PM
  #60
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No, but you want your captain to be healthy and on the ice at majority of the season.

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02-20-2012, 11:14 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
No, but you want your captain to be healthy and on the ice at majority of the season.
Every team wants that, but that it doesn't always work out that way. Paging Crosby....

And no, I'm not comparing Koivu to Crosby. Just saying that in regards to the letters, there's more to it.

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02-20-2012, 11:15 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post
Every team wants that, but that it doesn't always work out that way. Paging Crosby....
Crosby is a unique case (due to the concussion) but name a captain that has been constantly injured and sitting in the press box year after year?

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02-20-2012, 11:17 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Crosby is a unique case (due to the concussion) but name a captain that has been constantly injured and sitting in the press box year after year?
2008-09 79 gms
2009-10 80 gms
2010-11 71 gms (missed only 11 games last year)

Explain to me how he sits injured year after year.

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02-20-2012, 11:24 PM
  #64
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And again, he had the broken finger last year from blocking a shot. Wasn't that he was out of shape or caused the injury....he got hurt in a way that many players do. Also keep in mind that he again didn't want to sit out. He was quoted as saying he could bandage it up and play through the pain. But if he can't grip the stick, he's useless. So he sat.

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02-20-2012, 11:24 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post
2008-09 79 gms
2009-10 80 gms
2010-11 71 gms

Explain to me how he sits injured year after year.
In Finland, he battled constantly injuries (remember that?).

Rookie season - 64 games, sophomore season was his only season that he played all 82 games, then 57, then 79, then 80, then 71, and this year, he's projected for how many games? 68 if he plays the rest of the season? He has played only one full season, one almost full season and then has been injured the rest.

It's been almost 5 seasons since he has had a full season under his belt. It looks like he has one full season and then two injured filled seasons.

That's 355 games out of 410.

Meh. He misses around 11 games a season.

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02-20-2012, 11:29 PM
  #66
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In Finland, he battled constantly injuries (remember that?).

Rookie season - 64 games, sophomore season was his only season that he played all 82 games, then 57, then 79, then 80, then 71, and this year, he's projected for how many games? 68 if he plays the rest of the season? He has played only one full season, one almost full season and then has been injured the rest.

It's been almost 5 seasons since he has had a full season under his belt. It looks like he has one full season and then two injured filled seasons.

That's 355 games out of 410.

Meh. He misses around 11 games a season.
His history in Finland has nothing to do with what he's done over here. This debate is about him and his time as Captain over here. It's been 5 seasons since he's had a full season under his belt? Let's have some realistic expectations. He only missed 3 games in 09' and 2 games in 2010. You realize that's pretty dang good for ANY player, right? For any guy to not miss a game during a season is remarkable....and to do it constantly is RARE. Guys are lucky to miss only 2-5 a year! They aren't superheros.


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02-20-2012, 11:34 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
In Finland, he battled constantly injuries (remember that?).

Rookie season - 64 games, sophomore season was his only season that he played all 82 games, then 57, then 79, then 80, then 71, and this year, he's projected for how many games? 68 if he plays the rest of the season? He has played only one full season, one almost full season and then has been injured the rest.

It's been almost 5 seasons since he has had a full season under his belt. It looks like he has one full season and then two injured filled seasons.

That's 355 games out of 410.

Meh. He misses around 11 games a season.
lol, its really not too bad when you look at the stats, especially when the you recognize that a few seasons skew the numbers. Injuries suck especially when they happen to a guy (or a few guys) that your team needs soooooo badly.

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02-20-2012, 11:37 PM
  #68
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Yzerman.....Lemieux.....even the best players and captains didn't put up 82 game seasons often.

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02-20-2012, 11:40 PM
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Yeah...come on that's just preposterous. In the game of hockey there are going to be injuries EVERY season...complete 82 game seasons should not be expected of someone.

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02-20-2012, 11:40 PM
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His history in Finland has nothing to do with what he's done over here. This debate is about him and his time as Captain over here. It's been 5 seasons since he's had a full season under his belt? Let's have some realistic expectations. He only missed 3 games in 09' and 2 games in 2010. You realize that's pretty dang good for ANY player, right? For any guy to not miss a game during a season is remarkable....and to do it constantly is RARE. Guys are lucky to miss only 2-5 a year! They aren't superheros.
The fact is that some injuries you just can't play through. a shoulder injury is one of them.

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02-20-2012, 11:41 PM
  #71
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Yzerman.....Lemieux.....even the best players and captains didn't put up 82 game seasons often.
Lemieux had cancer.

Yzerman's early career he played almost every game of the season. One injury filled one but his age started coming later in his career.

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lol, its really not too bad when you look at the stats, especially when the you recognize that a few seasons skew the numbers. Injuries suck especially when they happen to a guy (or a few guys) that your team needs soooooo badly.
Yes it really does suck when the 80 games seem to be a fluke and the 60-70 games seem to be the normal.

Koivu is only needed because there is zero talent and zero skill in this organization and he's one of the only ones not to be battling concussions.

The fact is I think when someone said Mats Sundin and the Toronto Maple Leafs were like the Minnesota Wild and Mikko Koivu, that analogy was spot on.

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02-20-2012, 11:46 PM
  #72
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In the game of hockey there are going to be injuries EVERY season...complete 82 game seasons should not be expected of someone.
So is that why Schultz, Heatley and Brodziak miss a lot of games?

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02-20-2012, 11:55 PM
  #73
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Lemieux had cancer.
Pretty sure he was diagnosed in 1993...if not, somebody can correct me.

Mario

84-85 73 gms
85-86 79 gms
86-87 63 gms
87-88 77 gms
88-89 76 gms
89-90 59 gms

Koivu

05-06 64 gms
06-07 82 gms
07-08 57 gms
08-09 79 gms
09-10 80 gms
10-11 71 gms

I guess 60-70 was normal for Mario during his early career too.

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02-20-2012, 11:56 PM
  #74
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Yes it really does suck when the 80 games seem to be a fluke and the 60-70 games seem to be the normal.

Koivu is only needed because there is zero talent and zero skill in this organization and he's one of the only ones not to be battling concussions.
64, 82, 57, 79, 80, 71. Well he has had two really bad one (three if you count this year). Not the best but injuries happen.

Your kidding yourself if you don't think he will still be needed in few years. He might not put up 82 pts/yr but he is an extremely useful player.

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02-20-2012, 11:59 PM
  #75
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So is that why Schultz, Heatley and Brodziak miss a lot of games?
Brodz and Schultz have only had 1 season of a full 82 games....same as Koivu.

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