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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread VI

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Old
02-20-2012, 11:09 PM
  #276
Peter James Bond
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Originally Posted by Nex06 View Post
Thinking that much ahead is usually not a good thing, especially when it leads to trades. That is why GM's draft the best player, not the position they think they will need in 4 years.

Remember, Purcell was penciled as number one winger by Lombardi long time ago.

Loktionov's trade value will be higher in 2 years, I don't think it's wise to trade him right now.
Agreed. I recall during 2008-09 a fan in Windsor was saying all year long that Loktionov was better than teammate Taylor Hall. Lokti had 33 pts in 20 playoff games...Hall had 36 for them in the playoffs. I think Lokti has mostly looked good. The one thing that bugs me, is that he never gets in scoring positions. His linemates never seem to get him the puck, for that matter, but Lokti has to get more hungry to score goals himself. I wouldn't trade him at this time...his value will only rise. If he is traded for a key piece, I do not think it should be now. In other words, he would be the 3rd or 4th piece in a deal for Nash, whereas a year from now, he would be a key piece in a deal - if that deal would make the Kings better.

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02-20-2012, 11:10 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by rsaturday View Post
Why not? Ziggy is 39 but probably could score more than Penner.

There is also our boy #24 Alexanderrr Frolov. He is only 29 but alas he only has 21 points for Omsk in 51 games. Esa Pirnes and Bednar are still playing in Europe and could do more damage than Stoll or Richardson.

Holloway is doing well in the SEL and Moller could also contribute. How did DL manage to chase these guys off in favor of Hunter, Moreau, and Parse?

Time to pray that Toffoli and Kitsyn pan out.
Holloway scored two more today giving him 41 pts in 40 sum games and is in the top 5 in the league,hope they can get him signed for next season.

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02-20-2012, 11:10 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Nex06 View Post
Thinking that much ahead is usually not a good thing, especially when it leads to trades. That is why GM's draft the best player, not the position they think they will need in 4 years.

Remember, Purcell was penciled as number one winger by Lombardi long time ago.

Loktionov's trade value will be higher in 2 years, I don't think it's wise to trade him right now.
I actually didn't think I was thinking ahead I was thinking about now. We have an established All Star Goalie NOW and a unproven Blue Chip prospect now. We have one of the best 1-2 punches down the Center NOW(even though we have had an awful year as an organization) I attribute most of it to bad luck with coaching changes and a few important injuries we were really relying on(Gagne) and a few signings that we thought would have more of an impact(Hunter Moreau)

We have 2 prospects with great trade value now. There value isn't going to go up most likely because they wont have the opportunity to flourish here and now. They are stuck behind proven commodities.

And for all the talk about not trading Loktionov now but in 2 years.... What about if in 2 years he is more like Trevor Lewis instead of Pavel Datsyuk then what? Its a double edged sword.

You can use the Wild and Patrick O`Sullivan as an example. O`Sullivan was suppose to be a cant miss prospect at the time and was un proven and traded at his peak value. He was given a chance to prove himself and still wasn't able to do anything.

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02-20-2012, 11:13 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
I actually didn't think I was thinking ahead I was thinking about now. We have an established All Star Goalie NOW and a unproven Blue Chip prospect now. We have one of the best 1-2 punches down the Center NOW(even though we have had an awful year as an organization) I attribute most of it to bad luck with coaching changes and a few important injuries we were really relying on(Gagne) and a few signings that we thought would have more of an impact(Hunter Moreau)

We have 2 prospects with great trade value now. There value isn't going to go up most likely because they wont have the opportunity to flourish here and now. They are stuck behind proven commodities.

And for all the talk about not trading Loktionov now but in 2 years.... What about if in 2 years he is more like Trevor Lewis instead of Pavel Datsyuk then what? Its a double edged sword.

You can use the Wild and Patrick O`Sullivan as an example. O`Sullivan was suppose to be a cant miss prospect at the time and was un proven and traded at his peak value. He was given a chance to prove himself and still wasn't able to do anything.
Patty O Soul actually played his best hockey as a King.....

He hasn't posted numbers since leaving. Sad to see that guy implode.

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02-20-2012, 11:16 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Patty O sole actaully played his best hockey as a King.....

He hasn't posted numbers since leaving.
i wouldnt mind him getting another chance here

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02-20-2012, 11:17 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Patty O sole actaully played his best hockey as a King.....

He hasn't posted numbers since leaving.
He did... I agree. And still couldn't make a career out of it.

I guess the BEST way to describe my feelings is this. When the Kings traded for Mike Richards.... I always had the feeling that Simmonds and Schenn would turn into the players they were suppose to be and it made me sick.

I don't really have those feelings about Bernier and Loktionov. don't know why.

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02-20-2012, 11:18 PM
  #282
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I like Lokti and hope we can hang on to him. I do think that he is misused on the third line with plugs like Richardson and Lewis. That makes me think he could be expendable somewhat as Kopi and Richards are our top two for years to come if they stay healthy. Lokti could be groomed as a tweener in case of injury. We also have Vey and Weal in the pipe. Cliche could probably handle Frasers spot not that role is to hard to fill via free agency. Stoll will be gone next year unless he takes a serious pay cut.

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02-20-2012, 11:25 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
He did... I agree. And still couldn't make a career out of it.

I guess the BEST way to describe my feelings is this. When the Kings traded for Mike Richards.... I always had the feeling that Simmonds and Schenn would turn into the players they were suppose to be and it made me sick.

I don't really have those feelings about Bernier and Loktionov. don't know why.
One Big reason for me(Also) is Columbus is a Western Confrence team. Simmer and Schenn are out East.

I don't enjoy the thought of Loki being surrounded by players like Matt Calvert(skill) and Brassard.

Then Watch Loki murder the Kings for the next decade six times a year. Not to mention Jack, cause Columbus will let him play like he wants too. He will become the West's version of Mike Green.

Johnny B gives Columbus a Legit Goalie(despite what some people say).

I am not in the mindset or mood to make yet another Western Confrence team stronger. The Kings are far from Elite even with Nash.

Now that is not always a good excuse to not make your team better.

But the Kings have a history of this type of stuff coming true.


Last edited by damacles1156: 02-21-2012 at 12:17 AM.
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Old
02-20-2012, 11:28 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
One Big reason for me(Also) is Columbus is a Western Confrence team. Simmer and Schenn are out East.

I don't enjoy the thought of Loki being surounded by a person like Matt Calvert(skill) and someone like Brassard.

Then Watch Loki murder the Kings for the next decade six times a year. Not to mention Jack, cause they will let him play like he wants too. He will be the West version of Mike Green.

Johhny B gives Columbus a Legit Goalie(despite what some people say).

I am not in the mindset or mood to make yet another Western Confrence team stronger. The Kings are far from Elite even with Nash.
I am just going to wait and see...

I feel almost silly for talking this much about this stuff and nothing has even happened lol.... I guess its because I only post on the boards during the few weeks up till the trade deadline... the day of Free agency and the day of the draft. Withdrawls!!!!

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02-20-2012, 11:31 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
I am just going to wait and see...

I feel almost silly for talking this much about this stuff and nothing has even happened lol.... I guess its because I only post on the boards during the few weeks up till the trade deadline... the day of Free agency and the day of the draft. Withdrawls!!!!
I am right there with you, I have nothing better to do tonight sadly.

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02-20-2012, 11:34 PM
  #286
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I am right there with you, I have never better to do tonight sadly.
I have nothing better to do either...I am recovering. It was my birthday on Saturday and Friday, Saturday and Sunday are all tied together by bottles of liquor and a few hours of sleep lol...

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02-20-2012, 11:44 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
I am going to assume your a bit bias(Not a bad thing) because you have his name in your board name.
Of course I am biased, been watching the kid since before he was drafted by the Kings. He was raw at the time, and he's been developed since into a world class goalie. He just hasn't been afforded an opportunity, not even a competition for the #1 spot. That was an issue I had with Murray and management....but that's another topic.



Quote:
But what good is Bernier to the team if he doesn't play? He doesn't play even as a backup. And he might never be as good as Quick is now. On top of that he isn't going to knock Quick out of the line up anytime soon. So having him on our roster doesn't mean much.
The difference in both goalies, in my opinion is that one plays at another level when the chips are down. If you recall a couple seasons back, Bernier essentially gave us enough points to ride into the playoffs down the stretch when Quick was struggling. Last season the same happened, we struggled down the stretch and blew it in the playoffs again. To me, Quick is Marty Turco. Dependable in the regular season, occasional flashes of greatness, and gets exposed in the playoffs.

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It would be tough to loose Johnson.
It would. I don't want another Paul Coffey, Bourque etc. situation on our hands.

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I don't see Loktionov out there doing all kinds of great things that would make me hesitate to include him in a package for Rick Nash.
Loktionov is essentially playing his first NHL season, he's had his cups of coffee before, but this is the first time he's been fully healthy this long into a season. I like his potential and skill set.

Loki and picks for Nash....yeah who wouldn't do that? But with JJ and Bernier...its too much.


Quote:
And to say Rick Nash isn't the cure is just dumb(seems harsh couldn't find the right word not attacking you). How do you know? Nobody in this earth knows.
It isn't the cure because this team isn't one player away. This team has had problems scoring 5 on 5 and on the power play for more than 3 years. We've traded for Richards and that didn't solve anything...I don't see us magically scoring goals in droves because we added a 60-70 point scoring left winger with a huge cap hit.

I see the opposite...its going to be the end of the Lombardi era and we're headed for another "rebuild". and so the cycle of the Kings suckiness continues for another 50 years.

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02-20-2012, 11:58 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
I like Lokti and hope we can hang on to him. I do think that he is misused on the third line with plugs like Richardson and Lewis. That makes me think he could be expendable somewhat as Kopi and Richards are our top two for years to come if they stay healthy. Lokti could be groomed as a tweener in case of injury. We also have Vey and Weal in the pipe. Cliche could probably handle Frasers spot not that role is to hard to fill via free agency. Stoll will be gone next year unless he takes a serious pay cut.
The traditional top six-bottom six construction is no longer as useful as it once was. If you watch video from the 80's or early 90's, the top players aren't noticeably more skilled than those today, but the skill of fourth liners in the NHL was much, much lower than it is now. Also, shifts are shorter because players skate harder, and the third and fourth lines are needed to eat time more than they were before.

In the future we may see more teams adopt scoring third lines, like the "Kid line" of Penner-Getslaf-Perry when the Ducks had success, or their Cogliano line, or any line with Kyle Wellwood, ever, who is almost second line quality but not quite and is a one dimensional scorer, or Buffalo before 2007, with Vanek-Roy-Afinogenov as the third line.

Kopitar and Richards are all anyone could ask for as far as defensive centers to take draws in their own zone and play 200 feet of hockey to score (not that they have the wingers for it).

Why not have the third line be a scoring line, getting cushy matchups against the other teams' weaker players and getting favorable zone starts? It's not like the Kings have too many goals for and against and should look to clamp down more defensively.

On an improved team that's a contender (not this year) that could feature Kitsyn and Brown (one of the best third line players in the league, really good enough to be the worst player on a very good second line...too bad he's playing on the first line because the Kings have no one better).

Kitsyn-Loktionov-Brown, so what if it's not a traditional third line?

The Kings have the best PMD depth in the league, and are able to have offensively able defensemen on the ice all the time.

PART of the answer to the scoring problems is scoring by the third line.

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Old
02-21-2012, 12:01 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Of course I am biased, been watching the kid since before he was drafted by the Kings. He was raw at the time, and he's been developed since into a world class goalie. He just hasn't been afforded an opportunity, not even a competition for the #1 spot. That was an issue I had with Murray and management....but that's another topic.





The difference in both goalies, in my opinion is that one plays at another level when the chips are down. If you recall a couple seasons back, Bernier essentially gave us enough points to ride into the playoffs down the stretch when Quick was struggling. Last season the same happened, we struggled down the stretch and blew it in the playoffs again. To me, Quick is Marty Turco. Dependable in the regular season, occasional flashes of greatness, and gets exposed in the playoffs.



It would. I don't want another Paul Coffey, Bourque etc. situation on our hands.



Loktionov is essentially playing his first NHL season, he's had his cups of coffee before, but this is the first time he's been fully healthy this long into a season. I like his potential and skill set.

Loki and picks for Nash....yeah who wouldn't do that? But with JJ and Bernier...its too much.




It isn't the cure because this team isn't one player away. This team has had problems scoring 5 on 5 and on the power play for more than 3 years. We've traded for Richards and that didn't solve anything...I don't see us magically scoring goals in droves because we added a 60-70 point scoring left winger with a huge cap hit.

I see the opposite...its going to be the end of the Lombardi era and we're headed for another "rebuild". and so the cycle of the Kings suckiness continues for another 50 years.
There is no way...... Team`s with a Young All Star goalie...2 Young All Star Centers and a Young franchise defense man a whole spice rack of young defensive prospects and have made playoffs the last 2 years don't go into rebuild mode... Not even sure how you could come up with that conclusion

We are 1 healthy player and 1 impact scorer away from being an elite team.

At this point you are closer to the Cup then a rebuild.
(Rebuild)<--- Here -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(Kings)<---- Here ----------------------------(Cup)<---Here

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02-21-2012, 12:09 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
No not the complete answer, but he could be what LA has been looking for the last 5 years and can't get through free agency.

I still think LA ends up with Carter.
I think so too. From what i've read,it's not going to take as much as people believe to get him, especially with that contract.

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02-21-2012, 12:09 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
There is no way...... Team`s with a Young All Star goalie...2 Young All Star Centers and a Young franchise defense man a whole spice rack of young defensive prospects and have made playoffs the last 2 years don't go into rebuild mode... Not even sure how you could come up with that conclusion

We are 1 healthy player and 1 impact scorer away from being an elite team.

At this point you are closer to the Cup then a rebuild.
(Rebuild)<--- Here -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(Kings)<---- Here ----------------------------(Cup)<---Here
Yeah when everyone advocates that we throw the kitchen sink at Columbus for Nash, your not going to have very much left to work with. Trading away 3 promising roster players for 1 LW that never got more than 80 points.

Secondly, I don't know if you have noticed but we aren't doing so hot offensively. When Nash doesn't pan out, what then? You are going to have to blow it up. It goes further than one player, and I think we are going to need 2 or 3 players to get this team to the finish line.

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02-21-2012, 12:13 AM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Yeah when everyone advocates that we throw the kitchen sink at Columbus for Nash, your not going to have very much left to work with. Trading away 3 promising roster players for 1 LW that never got more than 80 points.

Secondly, I don't know if you have noticed but we aren't doing so hot offensively. When Nash doesn't pan out, what then? You are going to have to blow it up. It goes further than one player, and I think we are going to need 2 or 3 players to get this team to the finish line.
We wouldn't look much different than we do now.

If Nash doesn't pan out, Dean and company is fired, then we get a new system, and hopefully every single player on the team is allowed to be the players they have shown themselves to be before under our new system.

The players aren't going anywhere. They are signed reasonably, long term. It is management and philosophy that changes if such a deal were to fail. We would not rebuild again, that is silly given the ages and makeup of our current team.

P.S. You should prepare for the loss of Bernier. His exit is 99.9% certain given Quick's health holds up. He has no future on this team whatsoever regardless of his capability.

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02-21-2012, 12:17 AM
  #293
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Somebody said that you guys were talking if you claim Conklin on waivers it could set a trade in motion, also keep in mind if it hasn't already been said, but if Columbus claims him that could also mean something is about to happen. If there was a trade with LA I would think that LA would ask CBJ to claim and flip Conklin as part of the trade to insure they get him.
I believe the only way Columbus could trade Conklin is if they first offered him to all other teams that also put in a claim on him while he was on waivers.

So if Conklin is claimed by Columbus, but no other team put in a team, then they could trade him to LA. If any other team put in a claim though, they would have to pass on him first. This issue arose when Scott Thornton went to Minnesota one year on waivers.

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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
*Mason in the AHL (I still think he has potential, maybe he could start rebuilding his career with the Monarchs)
Would Mason clear waivers? Maybe, but I could see a team like Tampa taking a claim on him.

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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
i meant richards being the 5 million 3rd line center. we have kopi and richards signed long term and i dont see lotki being a center that can carry the scoring alone on the 3rd line.
Then trade Mike RIchards. I don't care who the $5 mill 3rd liner is, you can deal him.

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i wouldnt mind him getting another chance here
You at the idea of Carter, but you want to give Patty O another shot?

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02-21-2012, 12:28 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Thank you, Give Loki at least 160 NHL games before we ship him out. And then he burns us for the Next 10 years in the West six times a Season.

Because giving up on guys (or trading them) with even the little amount of skill like, Pucell,Cammy,Lubo,Moulson. Has worked out sooooooo well Right ?

Jesus

Trevor Lewis has had how much time on the Kings ?
So the Kings should give Loktionov 160 games so he can show that his whopping 2 goals in 37 games is not the norm? It's more likely that he'll bust a la Trevor Lewis in 160 games than magically transform into Pavel Datsyuk.

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02-21-2012, 12:29 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Yeah when everyone advocates that we throw the kitchen sink at Columbus for Nash, your not going to have very much left to work with. Trading away 3 promising roster players for 1 LW that never got more than 80 points.

Secondly, I don't know if you have noticed but we aren't doing so hot offensively. When Nash doesn't pan out, what then? You are going to have to blow it up. It goes further than one player, and I think we are going to need 2 or 3 players to get this team to the finish line.
lol.... If we trade Johnson and Bernier we still have an established all star goalie. We still have 2 established all star centers. And we still have an established franchise defense man.

I said it a bit ago but I will say it again... if Gagne was healthy Loktionov would not be in LA he would be in Manchester. If Gagne was back in the line up I don't think Loktionov would be favored over Jordan Nolan at this point so you cant really count Loktionov as an established "roster" player. And a backup goalie is barely a roster player

You just asked me if I noticed that we aren't doing so hot offensively and in the very next sentence you miss cleo`d a comment to discredit one of the best scorers in the NHL in the last 8 years lol. News flash he hasn't broken the 80 point mark because he is a GOALSCORER(something we need just in case you didn't notice we cant score goals) not a passer. I'm sure if he could score 60 goals a year he would break the 80 point mark. But to answer your question... IF we get Rick Nash and IF he doesn't pan out I guess we`ll haft to deal with that when it happens.

Again.... If you cant see it because your in doom and gloom times with the recent loses the Kings have suffered and your favorite player might be traded I understand. What I don't understand is your logic? If Rick Nash comes to the Kings and cant score we rebuild.... But with Jonathan Bernier warming the bench and Johnson we don't rebuild?

NO TEAM REBUILDS WITH Kopitar,Doughty,Brown,Quick,Richards and maybe Nash... on the roster.

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02-21-2012, 12:30 AM
  #296
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Pavel only scored 35 points in his first full season, And he was about 23 ?
Even in that season, he was miles ahead of Loktionov. Lokti is on pace for 8 points this season.

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02-21-2012, 12:32 AM
  #297
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So the Kings should give Loktionov 160 games so he can show that his whopping 2 goals in 37 games is not the norm? It's more likely that he'll bust a la Trevor Lewis in 160 games than magically transform into Pavel Datsyuk.
Point is the Kings gave Trevor some time, Can the Kings at least Give Loki the same ?

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02-21-2012, 12:33 AM
  #298
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Even in that season, he was miles ahead of Loktionov. Lokti is on pace for 8 points this season.
The entire Bottom six is awful(Score sheet wise).

So it's safe to assume you want them all gone correct ? Clifford as well ?

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02-21-2012, 12:34 AM
  #299
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Point is the Kings gave Trevor some time, Can the Kings at least Give Loki the same ?
Kings gave Trevor Lewis lots of time because they wernt expecting him to score tons of goals and points. They were looking for a plumber to play defense, kill penalties and create energy with his speed and size.

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02-21-2012, 12:35 AM
  #300
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Ridiculous. Comparing Nash and Jeff Halpern. Makes a lot of sense.
He's on a roll comparing players that are nothing alike.

Datsyuk and Loktionov; Nash and Halpern...

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