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Koivu (Returning To Lineup 3/22)

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Old
02-21-2012, 12:00 AM
  #76
Avder
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So gameplan for the Wild:

Suppress news of Koivus injury until the trade deadline passes.

Then shut him down for the year?

Sound about right?

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02-21-2012, 12:02 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post
So gameplan for the Wild:

Suppress news of Koivus injury until the trade deadline passes.

Then shut him down for the year?

Sound about right?
If it's that bad, yep. Where do we sign?

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02-21-2012, 12:13 AM
  #78
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It's frustrating for me because he just refuses to talk to Russo or be the face of the franchise. Guys like Iginla and Crosby are excellent captains. They show up to the media every day and answer every question and clearly their respect and work ethic permeates the room. Koivu is just surly and spouts a couple quotes and disappear.

The idea that your captain is out day-to-day with an undisclosed injury is ridiculous. Maybe it's a drug problem or something crazy and I'll look like the a-hole, but if it's an actual injury, come out and say it. There are 18,000 people willing to shell out dollars and see your product and support your team. Come out and say what's going on if you're the supposed face of the franchise and leader. The smoke and mirrors is so annoying.

I was a Koivu booster for years but I'm pretty sick of him. A handful of quality games since his new contract and a whole load of nothing else. Went from drastically overrated to overpaid and somewhat ineffective.

I don't think he'd scratch $5.5m if there were any star players on the Wild roster. I do think the team had to overpay to keep him because he was the only one of value (aside from Burns). I can't help but think that went to his head. The team desperately needs somewhat to draw the attention away from him because he's just not picking up the team and running.

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02-21-2012, 12:30 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
It's frustrating for me because he just refuses to talk to Russo or be the face of the franchise. Guys like Iginla and Crosby are excellent captains. They show up to the media every day and answer every question and clearly their respect and work ethic permeates the room. Koivu is just surly and spouts a couple quotes and disappear.

The idea that your captain is out day-to-day with an undisclosed injury is ridiculous. Maybe it's a drug problem or something crazy and I'll look like the a-hole, but if it's an actual injury, come out and say it. There are 18,000 people willing to shell out dollars and see your product and support your team. Come out and say what's going on if you're the supposed face of the franchise and leader. The smoke and mirrors is so annoying.

I was a Koivu booster for years but I'm pretty sick of him. A handful of quality games since his new contract and a whole load of nothing else. Went from drastically overrated to overpaid and somewhat ineffective.

I don't think he'd scratch $5.5m if there were any star players on the Wild roster. I do think the team had to overpay to keep him because he was the only one of value (aside from Burns). I can't help but think that went to his head. The team desperately needs somewhat to draw the attention away from him because he's just not picking up the team and running.
But it may not even be his choice. It's not always the player giving the details. It can be the coach or the GM. Remember when there was a brief time (during Lemaire's last year or two) when they started to put a gag order on the details? It was either upper or lower body injury, and that's all the press was getting.

Only my opinion, but I'm wondering more and more if people are being told to stay quiet with the trade deadline fast approaching. Because with another top 6 guy out, we're gonna look desperate. And that means deals get more expensive. Koivu has met with the media to discuss his injuries just like every other player in the past. There's video proof of that on their site. So why is it different now? Something doesn't appear right. If it was personal reasons, they'd say so. They always do. They wouldn't lie about an injury. Russo would have picked that right up.

My God these posts tonight are making me look like a Koivu homer. But I'm really not. Just looking at things from a different perspective perhaps. And I get exhausted of the repeated discussions about the "C." Fair to say that no player on this team is deserving of it.


Last edited by NHL1674: 02-21-2012 at 12:37 AM.
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02-21-2012, 12:37 AM
  #80
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Yeah it's strange.

Maybe I'm the exception, but I'm so sick of Koivu I wouldn't be sad at all if he were traded. Strange that two years ago I was such a huge fan and now I just don't care for him at all.

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02-21-2012, 12:45 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Yeah it's strange.

Maybe I'm the exception, but I'm so sick of Koivu I wouldn't be sad at all if he were traded. Strange that two years ago I was such a huge fan and now I just don't care for him at all.
I think it's 50/50 with fans. He's Butch from 3 years ago. Shortie was the #1 target not necessarily because of his play, but because of his contract. Now it's Koivu's turn. The highest paid guys are going to get chewed apart...even more so when the season explodes like it has. He got a lot of money, and may not be worth that much to other teams. But to the Wild (considering our lack of talent at the time he signed), he was more valuable. Still is even though his season is turning to mush. I won't tear apart that contract until seeing if he rebounds from this year. Plus, I'm curious if Koivu and Granlund can become a one-two punch at center.

If I'm to be totally honest, I'm not happy with ANY player on that team right now. Well, maybe Heatley is starting to win me over a bit, but he had issues early on. But the top vets....Cullen, Brodz, Koivu, Seto, and so forth....I've turned in all of my fan cards on each of them a lot. Cullen has really p***ed me off in the past couple of months. But I still wouldn't trade most of the dingleberries. As much as they have sucked by failing to show up to games, most of the forwards have had to deal with covering the defense's butt PLUS they've had to play out of their usual positions on different lines every other day. Too much was asked of them.

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02-21-2012, 01:03 AM
  #82
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Hey the8bandarmadillo,

Sorry if I seemed a bit harsh or jumped on ya there. Been a long day, and I was bit tired and "punchy." More calm now. How about we just agree to disagree?

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02-21-2012, 01:52 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Yeah it's strange.

Maybe I'm the exception, but I'm so sick of Koivu I wouldn't be sad at all if he were traded. Strange that two years ago I was such a huge fan and now I just don't care for him at all.
I think I am at this point as well. The team has shown in the past couple of weeks that it can win without Koivu. In fact I think most of our wins in the past few weeks have been with Koivu out of the lineup. Plus everyone here should already know my position on him.

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02-21-2012, 03:14 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post
Pretty sure he was diagnosed in 1993...if not, somebody can correct me.

Mario

84-85 73 gms
85-86 79 gms
86-87 63 gms
87-88 77 gms
88-89 76 gms
89-90 59 gms

Koivu

05-06 64 gms
06-07 82 gms
07-08 57 gms
08-09 79 gms
09-10 80 gms
10-11 71 gms

I guess 60-70 was normal for Mario during his early career too.
Not trying to add fuel to the fire but in those 354 games that Mario did play he put up 302 goals and 436 assists. I don't think many people would be complaing about that. It's actually not even fair to compare the two.

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02-21-2012, 03:19 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by ChexLeMeneux View Post
Not trying to add fuel to the fire but in those 354 games that Mario did play he put up 302 goals and 436 assists. I don't think many people would be complaing about that. It's actually not even fair to compare the two.
Oh goodness no. I wasn't comparing the two in regards to skill. Yeah, Mario could do a lot more in a shorter amount of time. It was about judging a captain based on how many games they've played. Point was that playing 82 games a year is tough for any player. And Koivu hasn't missed significant time in the past few years.

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02-21-2012, 04:11 AM
  #86
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My apologies I've been up for about 28 hours so my brain is running slower then normal. Which is'nt saying much for me. But yea I agree it is tuff for players to make it thru all 82 games.

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02-21-2012, 05:45 AM
  #87
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So... everybody is hating on Koivu because he can't stay healthy?
I mean, I'm pissed too, but it's not like he wants to get injured. There's not much he can do.
We just need more talent on our roster so that we are not this dependent on one player.

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02-21-2012, 06:54 AM
  #88
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The only player injury status has changed my opinion on is Latendresse...is he even worth qualifying seeing how few games he's played two years in a row?

I have no problem with Koivu...he's proven his worth every year and deserves the C.

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02-21-2012, 06:57 AM
  #89
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This team is the worst team in the league without Koivu.

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02-21-2012, 07:02 AM
  #90
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somehow they shutout last years best team in the league with out him

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02-21-2012, 07:32 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuomaz View Post
This team is the worst team in the league without Koivu.
Yet they beat the Bruins.

What a weird team.


Last edited by Fel 96: 02-21-2012 at 07:40 AM.
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02-21-2012, 09:01 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
It's frustrating for me because he just refuses to talk to Russo or be the face of the franchise. Guys like Iginla and Crosby are excellent captains. They show up to the media every day and answer every question and clearly their respect and work ethic permeates the room. Koivu is just surly and spouts a couple quotes and disappear.
I won't argue with you on the Crosby point, but you think Iginla's "work ethic permeates the room?" Are you high or something? The guy doesn't ever bother to show up for the first half of the season. His team puts in Columbus type effort. They beat around at the bottom of the standings for half the year then make a late push to fall just short of the playoffs. Yeah, that's really a fine example Iginla's setting. Doesn't every team wish they could follow the Calgary model?

Honestly, that comment is so incredibly bad, I can't even get past it to read the rest of your post.

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02-21-2012, 09:24 AM
  #93
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Any talk about trading Koivu is so reactionary and short-sighted that, I'm sorry, it does not deserve serious discussion. Did we have to overpay? Yes. Has he underperformed? Yes, due to injury. Is his contract going to doom us for years to come? Of course not.

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02-21-2012, 09:28 AM
  #94
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Oh? We're back to this discussion? Yay!

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02-21-2012, 09:29 AM
  #95
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He's got two NTC's if you include his cap hit. Not going anywhere. Needs to step up and redeem himself a la Mauer.

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02-21-2012, 09:34 AM
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Oh? We're back to this discussion? Yay!
Zucker rules.

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02-21-2012, 09:49 AM
  #97
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O'Doyle rules

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02-21-2012, 10:09 AM
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According to Russo, no Koivu at practice this morning.

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02-21-2012, 10:20 AM
  #99
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Koivu's a top line center de facto, not by talent.

Centers with more points than Koivu even strength this year:

RankNameTeamPosGPGAPTSGPGPPG
1Steven StamkosTBLC583418520.590.90
2Evgeni MalkinPITC522424480.460.92
3Jason SpezzaOTTC611826440.300.72
4Jonathan ToewsCHIC592319420.390.71
5Henrik SedinVANC59636420.100.71
6John TavaresNYIC591821390.310.66
7Pavel DatsyukDETC591226380.200.64
8Valtteri FilppulaDETC591323360.220.61
9Joe ThorntonSJSC571125360.190.63
10Vincent LecavalierTBLC581619350.280.60
11Tyler SeguinBOSC561618340.290.61
12Patrice BergeronBOSC571222340.210.60
13Patrik EliasNJDC571123340.190.60
14Olli JokinenCGYC591221330.200.56
15Mikhail GrabovskiTORC531417310.260.58
16Eric StaalCARC601218300.200.50
17David KrejciBOSC541119300.200.56
18Mike RibeiroDALC521020300.190.58
19David DesharnaisMTLC60822300.130.50
20Jiri HudlerDETC591712290.290.49
21Logan CoutureSJSC571613290.280.51
22Ryan O'ReillyCOLC591118290.190.49
23Derek StepanNYRC571019290.180.51
24Anze KopitarLAKC591019290.170.49
25Kyle WellwoodWPGC591019290.170.49
26Stephen WeissFLAC56820280.140.50
27David BackesSTLC591017270.170.46
28Tuomo RuutuCARC571511260.260.46
29Adam HenriqueNJDC501115260.220.52
30Sam GagnerEDMC51818260.160.51
31Artem AnisimovNYRC56818260.140.46
32Rich PeverleyBOSC49818260.160.53
33Brad RichardsNYRC571510250.260.44
34Maxime TalbotPHIC581411250.240.43
35Mike FisherNSHC501312250.260.50
36Derek RoyBUFC571015250.180.44
37Saku KoivuANAC511015250.200.49
38Marcus JohanssonWSHC571015250.180.44
39Tomas PlekanecMTLC60718250.120.42
40Ryan KeslerVANC541113240.200.44
41Chris KellyBOSC571113240.190.42
42Nicklas BackstromWSHC381014240.260.63
43Tyler BozakTORC50915240.180.48
44Ryan GetzlafANAC59420240.070.41
45Jiri TlustyCARC601310230.220.38
46Jeff SkinnerCARC441310230.300.52
47Patrik BerglundSTLC591211230.200.39
48Matt CullenMINC58914230.160.40
49Kyle BrodziakMINC591111220.190.37
50Cody HodgsonVANC591012220.170.37
51Paul StastnyCOLC57913220.160.39
52Brooks LaichWSHC59715220.120.37
53Tim ConnollyTORC47615210.130.45
54Brandon DubinskyNYRC54516210.090.39
55Mike CammalleriMTL, CGYC52119200.210.38
56Alexander BurmistrovWPGC551010200.180.36
57Andrew CoglianoANAC59911200.150.34
58Shawn MatthiasFLAC57911200.160.35
59David LegwandNSHC55911200.160.36
60Mikko KoivuMINC45812200.180.44

60th right now in the NHL. That's also behind Cullen and Brodziak.
Bringing this out of the Granlund thread.

As the good Doctor noted, if you sort by PPG (to resolve the fact he's only played 45 games) Koivu slots in in the late 30s (37 I think, but I might have miscounted).

That's also considering your list of "top centers" included such "centers" as Jeff Skinner (has played almost exclusively at wing this season) and Mike Cammalleri (played a grand total of 0 games at center prior to being traded). Those were the two I could note offhand by glancing through the list. I suspect there's several more hiding if I looked deeper.

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Old
02-21-2012, 10:24 AM
  #100
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If Granlund is on this team and plays as we expect, do we still consider Koivu a #1 center?

More importantly, can we define what a #1 center is once and for all?

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