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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread VI

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Old
02-21-2012, 02:00 AM
  #351
Seventyx7
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Why would he be more amenable to a more reasonable extension if some team back East is willing to pay him what he wants? Plus he won't even have anyone on his heels anymore in this organization. His agent is probably salivating right now.
It is a tough situation, that's for sure. I can't even imagine if DL trades Bernier and JQ walks after next year. That would not be good.

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02-21-2012, 02:02 AM
  #352
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Cook24 gets it.

Jack Johnson has a team friendly contract and is bigger and more durable than VV. He might be a -90, but aside from the fact that +/- is already a dubious stat, he faces some of the toughest opposition on a nightly basis and HE IS ONLY 25. MOST NHL DEFENSEMEN DO NOT HAVE THE GAME FIGURED OUT WHEN THEY ARE 22, 23, 24 YEARS OLD. Sorry for the caps. Last post of the evening. Good night.

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02-21-2012, 02:03 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Seventyx7 View Post
It is a tough situation, that's for sure. I can't even imagine if DL trades Bernier and JQ walks after next year. That would not be good.
Assest Management, Chicago (Quicks favorite Arena) would love for Quick to make it too July 1st next year. The Hawks would have no problem giving Quick 7 Million(and he would be closer to home).

The Hawks need a Goalie...Like the Kings need a Sniper. So it might not be a good idea to trade Johnny B till Quick is locked up long term.

Unless everyone is ok with Zatkoff or Jones.


Last edited by damacles1156: 02-21-2012 at 02:11 AM.
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02-21-2012, 02:05 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Why would he be more amenable to a more reasonable extension if some team back East is willing to pay him what he wants? Plus he won't even have anyone on his heels anymore in this organization. His agent is probably salivating right now.
Keep in mind a large part of quicks success is because the one thing the kings do well is play d. There's no reason for him to not want to stay if the offense gets better.

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02-21-2012, 02:07 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Winger23 View Post
Keep in mind a large part of quicks success is because the one thing the kings do well is play d. There's no reason for him to not want to stay if the offense gets better.
I don't know, Family seems like a pretty good reason. The Hawks have a Norris winner on D. And a potent offense. (Chicago is Quick's favorite Arena to play in).


Last edited by damacles1156: 02-21-2012 at 02:15 AM.
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02-21-2012, 02:11 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by King Richards View Post
Cook24 gets it.

Jack Johnson has a team friendly contract and is bigger and more durable than VV. He might be a -90, but aside from the fact that +/- is already a dubious stat, he faces some of the toughest opposition on a nightly basis and HE IS ONLY 25. MOST NHL DEFENSEMEN DO NOT HAVE THE GAME FIGURED OUT WHEN THEY ARE 22, 23, 24 YEARS OLD. Sorry for the caps. Last post of the evening. Good night.
I'm pretty sure we all feel that way. We all like Jack. But I don't think Voynov instead of Johnson is going to work for them.

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02-21-2012, 02:15 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Assest Management, Chicago (Quicks favorite Arena) would love for Quick to make it too July 1st next year. The Hawks would have no problem giving Quick 7 Million(and he would be closer to home).

The Hawks need a Goalie...Like the Kings need a Sniper. So it might not be a good idea to trade Johnny B till Quick is locked up long term.

Unless everyone is ok with Zatkoff or Jones.
Well hopefully DL has gauged how much interest JQ has in resigning and for what (ballpark) price before trading Bernier in any deal. But you're right, that would be a nightmare situation.

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02-21-2012, 02:50 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by King Richards View Post
I don't want to trade Johnson either, and I think he is hugely underrated by most of the posters here, but I do agree his is probably our best tradeable asset aside from Bernier.

I would be severely pissed if Loktionov is dealt. I think he has made great strides already this year and will be a really effective player. If he's dealt, prepare for Moulson-type angst being expressed on this board for years, IMO.
Not sure how you can underrate a guy who is consistently terrible on defense and has the worst plus/minus on the team every year. His career -90 isn't a lie.

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02-21-2012, 03:18 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Seventyx7 View Post
Well hopefully DL has gauged how much interest JQ has in resigning and for what (ballpark) price before trading Bernier in any deal. But you're right, that would be a nightmare situation.
Checking his intent is all well and good until Quick shatters the records for winless one goal games, 0-1 losses, losses by one goal, and most times hearing "The finish just wasn't there tonight. We ran into a hot goaltender," and then the Kings miss the playoffs, and then Chicago starts winning playoff games, and then his friends on the Kings are traded away, and THEN Chicago offers him a ****ton more money than Lombardi does to play closer to home. If Lombardi is even still there.

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02-21-2012, 04:41 AM
  #360
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I know this is crazy. Matt Barry posted his trade idea. Call me crazy but I would do it. Please before you banish me or throw numbers just think about it. This was his proposed trade.

Kopi+Brown+Bernier

For

Nash & Carter

Remember never marry your players but always love your team. I would love to know what you guys think. I personally think this might be that tweak that jump starts the team. Sends a message to the rest of the team. Also not that it matters Kings get a new voice and Captian(s). We lose some D but gain O and reunit Carter with Richards, who you never know might jump start both of them.

Thank you for your time. Back to it Bob.

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02-21-2012, 08:18 AM
  #361
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I think any player we get to come in will not score much. Its our system. Thats why alot of the player that have left have done well meaning scoring more then they did here. Its our system. It kills all creativeness. These players have been taught all there lives to play the system. Ours is a good system. But it takes a certain type of a grinding player to do it. We dont have many of those types of players. We have DD and JJ probably two of the most creative d in the league yet they are stifled in our system. It maybe sexy to have a new sniper but it wont change a thing. Not until we let our players loose. We need to change the system.

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02-21-2012, 08:35 AM
  #362
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This is not a Mike Richards v. Wayne Simmonds thread. I'm getting tired of that being brought up by certain posters in every single thread. This is the end of it right here.

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02-21-2012, 08:53 AM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsnsoldiers View Post
I think any player we get to come in will not score much. Its our system. Thats why alot of the player that have left have done well meaning scoring more then they did here. Its our system. It kills all creativeness. These players have been taught all there lives to play the system. Ours is a good system. But it takes a certain type of a grinding player to do it. We dont have many of those types of players. We have DD and JJ probably two of the most creative d in the league yet they are stifled in our system. It maybe sexy to have a new sniper but it wont change a thing. Not until we let our players loose. We need to change the system.
I agree,

I doubt bringing in one or more ”scoring wingers” will help significantly. I fear this team needs a fresh start. I doubt a trade-deadline tweak will solve the scoring woes with this team. Rick Nash or Jeff Carter I doubt will solve our problems.

More than guys like that I’d like to have had on the roster is a highly creative player like Ray Whitney. A highly creative player who can create some open chances – we dont get enough of those. Imo. Someone like that would boost the PP too. A guy like that running the PP would be a major improvement. A guy like Brown (or someone else) who can work in front of the net … with 3 guys like Kopi, Richards, Doughty, JJ or VV to fire onetimers.

A new season, a full camp with the new coach, a bit of fresh inspiration from maturing youngsters and perhabs a trade or two … then maybe things will improve. I’d settle for this team playing shut-down D with average scoring. Which is probably the best to hope for with Sutter at the helm. Seems to be his MO.

I was onboard with Lombardi for a long time. I thought he had the team on the right path and that the acquisition of Mike Richards along with the signing of Gagne was the moment that he lifted the Kings to contender status. In hindsight, the moves he made did not turn out great. Dumping solid ”heavy” players like Handzus, Simmonds, even Poni and replacing them with a much lighter and quick-footed depth 6 was a bad fit with TM’s style. Lewis, Loktionov, Richardson etc. may buzz around but they dont play heavy like those big boys did.

Needless to say, this season has been a massive disappointment. Lombardi should shoulder the bulk of the blame for the failure of the team he created. I am undecided if I think he should be fired at this point.

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02-21-2012, 09:15 AM
  #364
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What a mess.

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Old
02-21-2012, 09:51 AM
  #365
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Rick Nash is not a knight in shining armor. He's not going to come in and score 30 goals in the remaining games and drag the Kings into the playoffs. Write the season off, acquire a scorer at the deadline if the price isn't exorbitant, if not just sell and get ready for next season. I hope AEG, Lombardi, and more importantly the fans realize this. There is no savior for this season.

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Old
02-21-2012, 10:08 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Rick Nash is not a knight kn shining armor. He's not going to come in and score 30 goals in the remaining games and drag the Kings into the playoffs. Write the season off, acquire a scorer at the deadline if the price isn't exorbitant, if not just sell and get ready for next season. I hope AEG, Lombardi, and more importantly the fans realize this. There is no savior for this season.
I don't think anyone who has paid any level of attention to this team over the past 3 seasons can honestly in their heart of hearts claim that almost ANY deadline deal will help this team for the remaining games. I certainly have no illusions about it.

Having said that, when you have an opportunity to get a Star player (and in my opinion a future HOFer) such as Rick Nash, especially when it's been virtually impossible to sign the same caliber player via UFA, you have to do it. These opportunities are few and far between. Some say wait until the draft...he might actually be more expensive at the draft, we just don't know.

I can't imagine any team has as much as the Kings have to offer CBJ for a player of his quality.

Having said all that, the Kings still will need a new system (i.e. - management) to make things work with Nash or any star they'd bring in. If they're not willing to change their approach, I guess giving up all these assets to get one guy seems extreme, but you still have to take the risk.

You win with Stars in this league and when you're the 2nd largest media market, you sell out most games and you're raising ticket prices year in and year out, you really in all fairness to the fan base have to evaluate this roster from a star standpoint. You then have to come to a quick realization that you need Rick Nash and a new system.

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Old
02-21-2012, 10:10 AM
  #367
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First off, thanks Chazz. I'm starting to hate it here due to that reason.

Anyway, back to what the thread is for. I'm one who thinks Quick could want to go back home, or closer to home in 18 months, but a LOT can happen between now and 18 months as far as a team can go. Sure the offense sucks now, but in 18 months, it could be the other way around. The Kings last year scored goals (of course not the top of the league, but they weren't very near the bottom I don't think), and now they can't. Just as quickly, they could start scoring again, especially with a different GM. Bring in a different GM (I think DL's time is ticking rather fast right now) and he will almost surely bring in a new coach. We have the talent to score, they just aren't scoring for whatever reason. Sure, right now if I'm Quick I don't want to stay on a West Coast team who can't score one goal, but that doesn't mean come the middle of next season (he doesn't HAVE to sign July 1 of course), if the Kings are doing well and I'm still happy in LA, I don't re-sign. Thank god we have one more year on his current contract.

I'm a huge JB fan as you all know obviously, but I understand that he pretty much has to be traded, along with other pieces to get someone who can put the puck in the next. I've resigned myself to that fact, as it sounds like JB has in Mayor interviews over the past few days. I'd love to see JB get a chance, even if it isn't with the Kings. He could be a star in this league I think and I want to see that. As soon as Quick came in this year and was awesome from the start, I knew JB's time here was coming to an end. Sad really because we really brought him up the right way and were patient and we didn't even get to see what he could do with even a handful of games in a row. It's not fair to him to only start 8 games at such a young age. Heck, even Rask, behind Thomas gets a bunch of games. Anyway, I think traded Bernier is going to happen, no matter what. It makes me sad, but I understand.

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02-21-2012, 10:14 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Rick Nash is not a knight in shining armor. He's not going to come in and score 30 goals in the remaining games and drag the Kings into the playoffs. Write the season off, acquire a scorer at the deadline if the price isn't exorbitant, if not just sell and get ready for next season. I hope AEG, Lombardi, and more importantly the fans realize this. There is no savior for this season.
I think you are correct on the night in shining armor. I believe that this is not the case for bringing in Nash, Carter, or any other sniper. The hope is that this person we bring in will not go on to score an obscene amount of goals but may change the way our offense moves the puck. Maybe we bring someone in that just seems to work with other player better than Penner, Lewis, Williams (who has not been too bad this season), or Fraser.

Look at the two rookies that have been brought up. They are not high scoring wingers but they have brought a little different element to the Kings game. This has only been for a couple of games now but sometimes a little change has a big impact.

I hope something happens soon because we need more goals and more of players crashing the net. Kopi needs to step up and Brown as well.

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02-21-2012, 10:41 AM
  #369
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Well obviously, if we can get it done while keeping Lokti I will be that much happier. I guess I just don't hold Lokti in such high regard that I would let it kill a Nash trade. As much promise as Lokti shows, there is no guarantee he will be an impact player. Hopefully DL is working his ass off to get it done for as little as possible.

I guess where we differ is that I would be ok overpaying a bit to get a sure thing, that fills our biggest need.
Possibly. I do likely hold Loktionov to a higher value than some. I'm not saying he's a poor man's Datsyuk (which damacles was mislabelled as having said btw) but I think he's the type of forward who can be excellent all the way around, but not great at anything. Like a 50-point scorer who can backcheck very well and be on the PP and PK. Whether or not he reaches that level, I don't know, but he strikes me as the type of guy who if we let him go, we''ll be hollowing about it 2-3 years from now similar to how we whine in pain each time Matt Moulson scores a goal.

As for Nash, as you know, I just flat out do not want that guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
Jonathan Bernier "I haven't asked for a trade and I'm happy here, but I want to be a starter in the NHL," he told me.

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/colum.../db120220.html
Nothing to read into that. He likes it in LA but he wants to play more. Outside of a handful of players, doesn't pretty much every NHL goalie, defenseman and forward want to play more?

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02-21-2012, 10:52 AM
  #370
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Rick Nash is not a knight in shining armor. He's not going to come in and score 30 goals in the remaining games and drag the Kings into the playoffs. Write the season off, acquire a scorer at the deadline if the price isn't exorbitant, if not just sell and get ready for next season. I hope AEG, Lombardi, and more importantly the fans realize this. There is no savior for this season.
I agree, and I don't think one player solves this entire problem going forward which is why I am very concerned about the acquisition of Nash as he severely limits the options going forward.

If an acquisition for a scorer is to be made I would look at Carter and deal Bernier, Martinez, and a pick to get him. I think that is a steep enough price to pay for Carter.

You finish the season out and re-evaluate in the off season. Then if you want to move Johnson you look to do it for more depth on the wing. Something like JVR for Johnson after your medical staff has determined JVR to be healthy, or Johnson for Grabner + a pick/prospect from the NYI.

You may even take a swing at Parise after acquiring Carter. Chances are slim, but would you rather throw Nash money at Nash, or Nash money at Parise?

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02-21-2012, 10:58 AM
  #371
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Reading alot of what if's and fortune telling in this thread.

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02-21-2012, 11:04 AM
  #372
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Ya, not suprising in a thread with the words "rumors" and "proposals" in the title

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02-21-2012, 11:11 AM
  #373
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I agree, and I don't think one player solves this entire problem going forward which is why I am very concerned about the acquisition of Nash as he severely limits the options going forward.

If an acquisition for a scorer is to be made I would look at Carter and deal Bernier, Martinez, and a pick to get him. I think that is a steep enough price to pay for Carter.

You finish the season out and re-evaluate in the off season. Then if you want to move Johnson you look to do it for more depth on the wing. Something like JVR for Johnson after your medical staff has determined JVR to be healthy, or Johnson for Grabner + a pick/prospect from the NYI.

You may even take a swing at Parise after acquiring Carter. Chances are slim, but would you rather throw Nash money at Nash, or Nash money at Parise?
Agreed. A deal for Nash handicaps us both in the assets required to get him and in salary. I'd rather go after Carter, then whatever else is possible in the future than go all in with Nash.

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02-21-2012, 11:15 AM
  #374
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SO what do you guys think happens if DL can't land Carter or Nash? Try to get Hemsky for a pick? Or I could see DL trying to get JVR from Philly maybe

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02-21-2012, 11:16 AM
  #375
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Originally Posted by saintsnsoldiers View Post
I think any player we get to come in will not score much. Its our system. Thats why alot of the player that have left have done well meaning scoring more then they did here. Its our system. It kills all creativeness. These players have been taught all there lives to play the system. Ours is a good system. But it takes a certain type of a grinding player to do it. We dont have many of those types of players. We have DD and JJ probably two of the most creative d in the league yet they are stifled in our system. It maybe sexy to have a new sniper but it wont change a thing. Not until we let our players loose. We need to change the system.


The system is fine, it may not be innovative but it gets the job done with the right personnel. Our wingers are still garbage and until that changes this team will continue to go into every game with a huge disadvantage. Rick Nash is not the answer because of his cap hit but you can't tell me that if Nash, Parise and maybe a Glencross,Michalek were ALL on this team we wouldn't be scoring more(even if we still had Murray behind the bench).

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