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Rangers interested in Nash: Part III

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Old
02-21-2012, 05:59 AM
  #901
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Here is to illustrate what "could be done" with regards to cap space at the deadline - and the implications next year. Includes Nash on Deadline plus a few more trades. Not really advocating this at all (but imo Penner & Spacek > Wolski & Woywitka for a serious cup run - but not sure it is worth doing anyways) , just looking at it through the cap perspective. As some people here do not realize the possibilities we have out of economic standpoint.
But then again - nobody knows if the cap goes down next year - which many believe - and eventually by how much?? Lets us for arguments sake say that it stays the same. I also read somewhere that the Rangers were considering buying out Drurys contract again next year - if compliable - thereby creating around $1 M more space then. Is this even remotely possible (would they not save the compliance buyout for the future or ev use it on Redden?)??

DEADLINE TRADES
  • Dubinsky, Miller/Thomas/MSC, McIllraith, 1st rounder 2012, conditional 2013 pick to Columbus for R Nash, 4th round pick 2012
  • W Wolski to LA Kings for D Penner
  • P Valentenko + 3rd rounder 2012 to Carolina for J Spacek
  • Sean Avery to Vancouver for S Reinprecht (CT Whalebound) and a conditional 5th/6th rounder
  • Waive J Woywitka

Cap Additions
Rick Nash 7,800,000
Jaroslav Spacek 3.833,000
Dustin Penner 4.000,000
TOTAL $15,633,333

Available prorated at deadline $6.959,621

Subtractions
B Dubinsky 4,200,000
W Wolski 3,800,000
J Woywitka 650.000
M Sauer 820.000 (LTIR)
TOTAL - $9.470.000
TOTAL Used Prorated Cap Space - 16,429,621
LEFT = $796.628

PO lineup
Nash - Richards - Cally
AA - Stepan - Gabby
Penner/Feds - Boyle - Hagelin
Rupp - Mitchell - Prust

MZA as an eventual callup for injuries/POs

McD - Girardi
MDZ - Strålman
Staal - Spacek

Eminger, Bickel
Sauer on LTIR

ROSTER 2012/2013

FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Brad Richards ($6.666m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Chris Kreider ($1.600m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Carl Hagelin ($0.875m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.875m) / one of John Mitchell/MZA(if kept?)/Christian Thomas/JT Miller/Jesper Fasth/Casey Wellman (~ $1.000m)
Michael Rupp ($1.500m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Brandon Prust ($1.400m)
Stu Bickell ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Mikael del Zotto ($2.400m)
Tim Erixon ($1.750m) / Mike Sauer ($1.250m)
Anton Strålman ($1.200m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Marty Biron ($1.200m)

BUYOUTS:
Chris Drury ($1.666m)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000;
CAP PAYROLL: $62,758,334;
BONUSES: $1,562,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,541,666

After 2012/2013 - it gets very difficult to manage without making some moves
Drurys buyout money is then finally gone = +$1,666.667
Previous somewhat fictive space is around $1,5 M
The cap might also go up a bit then??? but not sure at all. Nobody is...

RFAs then are:
McD (expect a raise of ~ $2,5 M)
Stepan ($1,5 - $2 M)
Sauer (~ $1M)
Hagelin (~1 - 1,5 M)
Anisimov (~ 1 - 1,5 M)

We are looking at probable raises of between $7M to $8,5 M for our 5 RFAs here
That is the real problem with the Nash deal imo
If we want to win now & next year - which is a coin flip - we can make the deal.
Otoh - there are so many factors we have no idea about
Players progression/regression, injuries, other teams roster management & development,the new CBA...
We then will have $3 M + ev changes in cap space and need more than double this amount to retain our homegrown core of RFAs.
Something has gotta give.
It could get ugly...
That is going to mean some serious creativity with the roster structure.
But there are certainly many other possibilities here - but giving up too many young potential assets (prospects/picks) might limit these options as well
Sather better play some good poker here - or stay away altogether imo
Something tells me he might have an entirely different plan/strategy here - but is in the Nash competition/discussion heavily as long as possible to be able to jump into his real Plan A when the Nash option is moot and time is running out in a frenzy state for GMs at the deadline. That would be quite smart...
Time will tell...

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02-21-2012, 06:22 AM
  #902
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While I agree that the potential contracts for McD and MDZ will exceed 2.5 each, it's a great thing that they are not expiring in the same off season.

We got MDZ coming up this summer and with Nash and the expiring contracts, we can sign him. Stepan too.

Next summer is where things get dicey with McD, but I believe we trade Gabby at the 2013 draft we are fine.

As long as we do not give up Kreider and Miller in any deal for Nash, we are set

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02-21-2012, 06:25 AM
  #903
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Quote:
Hockey Buzz Eklund @Eklund Close
4:15 am: New rumor update>Eastern Conference Teams Out Nash Sweeps (for now at least) plus mini-Carter update>hockeybuzz.com
So Nash is coming to NYC then?

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02-21-2012, 06:51 AM
  #904
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
One other thing to consider as this all goes down:

How many of these packages that seem really, really expensive do you think are being leaked by anyone OTHER than Columbus...?

Seriously, I asked this before, but when's the last time a player was traded and garnered a return similar to what Howson supposedly demanded of the Rangers? ESPECIALLY in a salary cap league where you have to weigh contract vs. performance? I can't think of a single one. Honestly, Columbus should be willing to add to Nash if they want McD or MDZ, given age, position, skill and contract status. Not the other way 'round.
Exactly...look at all the deals for star players over the past 20 or so years...Rob Blake, Joe Thronton, Joe Nieuwendyk, Ray Bourque, Marian Hossa, Dany Heatley, Ilya Kovalchuk...nobody gets the package for their star player that Columbus is trying to get for Nash. Yes, Hossa and Kovalchuk were pending UFAs at the the time they were dealt, but, Nash's situation has it's limitations due to Nash having an NMC, therefore limiting the market for him. The best player in either the Hossa or Kovalchuk deal that went the other way was Johnny Oduya. The Thrashers didn't get a great prospect either. The truth is, history woiuld show that a deal of Dubinsky or Anisimov, either Sauer or Erixon and a #1 would be expected return for a player of Nash's capabilities, given his cap hit, and the limited market for him due to the NMC narrowing the list of teams he will accept a trade to. Out of the GMs for teams that Nash will accept a trade to, one has not shown a willingness to overpay in trades, (that would be Sather), while another, (Lombardi) has already shown he will.

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02-21-2012, 06:52 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
So Nash is coming to NYC then?
No, I would take that to mean, (in Eklund speak), that the Eastern Conference teams - Rangers, Flyers and Bruins - have backed away from the bidding.

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02-21-2012, 07:07 AM
  #906
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Its NOT just Sather. Guaranteed.

Its also Jeff Gorton, Jim Schoenfeld, and Gordie Clark.
You could probably throw Dolan into the mix there as well

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02-21-2012, 07:09 AM
  #907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Here is to illustrate what "could be done" with regards to cap space at the deadline - and the implications next year. Includes Nash on Deadline plus a few more trades. Not really advocating this at all (but imo Penner & Spacek > Wolski & Woywitka for a serious cup run - but not sure it is worth doing anyways) , just looking at it through the cap perspective. As some people here do not realize the possibilities we have out of economic standpoint.
But then again - nobody knows if the cap goes down next year - which many believe - and eventually by how much?? Lets us for arguments sake say that it stays the same. I also read somewhere that the Rangers were considering buying out Drurys contract again next year - if compliable - thereby creating around $1 M more space then. Is this even remotely possible (would they not save the compliance buyout for the future or ev use it on Redden?)??

DEADLINE TRADES
  • Dubinsky, Miller/Thomas/MSC, McIllraith, 1st rounder 2012, conditional 2013 pick to Columbus for R Nash, 4th round pick 2012
  • W Wolski to LA Kings for D Penner
  • P Valentenko + 3rd rounder 2012 to Carolina for J Spacek
  • Sean Avery to Vancouver for S Reinprecht (CT Whalebound) and a conditional 5th/6th rounder
  • Waive J Woywitka

Cap Additions
Rick Nash 7,800,000
Jaroslav Spacek 3.833,000
Dustin Penner 4.000,000
TOTAL $15,633,333

Available prorated at deadline $6.959,621

Subtractions
B Dubinsky 4,200,000
W Wolski 3,800,000
J Woywitka 650.000
M Sauer 820.000 (LTIR)
TOTAL - $9.470.000
TOTAL Used Prorated Cap Space - 16,429,621
LEFT = $796.628

PO lineup
Nash - Richards - Cally
AA - Stepan - Gabby
Penner/Feds - Boyle - Hagelin
Rupp - Mitchell - Prust

MZA as an eventual callup for injuries/POs

McD - Girardi
MDZ - Strålman
Staal - Spacek

Eminger, Bickel
Sauer on LTIR

ROSTER 2012/2013

FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Brad Richards ($6.666m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Chris Kreider ($1.600m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Carl Hagelin ($0.875m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.875m) / one of John Mitchell/MZA(if kept?)/Christian Thomas/JT Miller/Jesper Fasth/Casey Wellman (~ $1.000m)
Michael Rupp ($1.500m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Brandon Prust ($1.400m)
Stu Bickell ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Mikael del Zotto ($2.400m)
Tim Erixon ($1.750m) / Mike Sauer ($1.250m)
Anton Strålman ($1.200m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Marty Biron ($1.200m)

BUYOUTS:
Chris Drury ($1.666m)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000;
CAP PAYROLL: $62,758,334;
BONUSES: $1,562,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,541,666

After 2012/2013 - it gets very difficult to manage without making some moves
Drurys buyout money is then finally gone = +$1,666.667
Previous somewhat fictive space is around $1,5 M
The cap might also go up a bit then??? but not sure at all. Nobody is...

RFAs then are:
McD (expect a raise of ~ $2,5 M)
Stepan ($1,5 - $2 M)
Sauer (~ $1M)
Hagelin (~1 - 1,5 M)
Anisimov (~ 1 - 1,5 M)

We are looking at probable raises of between $7M to $8,5 M for our 5 RFAs here
That is the real problem with the Nash deal imo
If we want to win now & next year - which is a coin flip - we can make the deal.
Otoh - there are so many factors we have no idea about
Players progression/regression, injuries, other teams roster management & development,the new CBA...
We then will have $3 M + ev changes in cap space and need more than double this amount to retain our homegrown core of RFAs.
Something has gotta give.
It could get ugly...
That is going to mean some serious creativity with the roster structure.
But there are certainly many other possibilities here - but giving up too many young potential assets (prospects/picks) might limit these options as well
Sather better play some good poker here - or stay away altogether imo
Something tells me he might have an entirely different plan/strategy here - but is in the Nash competition/discussion heavily as long as possible to be able to jump into his real Plan A when the Nash option is moot and time is running out in a frenzy state for GMs at the deadline. That would be quite smart...
Time will tell...
Isnt every trade analyst saying Howson wants NHL-ready players or young NHL'ers?

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02-21-2012, 07:14 AM
  #908
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Jim Schoenfeld made this comment about Marc Staal returning from his concussion

Quote:
“He is used to being one of the main ingredients,” said the assistant general manager Jim Schoenfeld, who also works closely with the defensemen as an assistant. “I know he has struggled with that. But we have spoken with him. The play of Michael and Ryan and Danny has allowed us to give Marc more time to get comfortable.

“If he keeps getting better at the rate he’s been, he’s going to play big minutes for us when it counts the most. By improving at this pace, it’s like we have added a top-pair defenseman before the trade deadline — without making a trade.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/sp...er=rss&emc=rss

The Rangers aren't trading Del Zotto or McDonagh.

One year anniversary of the concussion tomorrow. February 22.

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02-21-2012, 07:18 AM
  #909
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Columbus doesnt need forwards, especially if they are drafting nail or Grigorenko. They need defensemen.

If Nash is a Ranger, one of Staal, Macdonagh, Del Zotto or Girardi is gone. Probably add Macilrath or Erixon to that as well.

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02-21-2012, 07:24 AM
  #910
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The Jackets are having buyers remorse over Jeff Carter. The Kings should be having buyers remorse in trading for Mike Richards. Both of those teams gave up quality young players. Carter and Richards are signed to long term deals. Howson sees those deals and he wants the same quality return.

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02-21-2012, 07:51 AM
  #911
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Jackets are having buyers remorse over Jeff Carter. The Kings should be having buyers remorse in trading for Mike Richards. Both of those teams gave up quality young players. Carter and Richards are signed to long term deals. Howson sees those deals and he wants the same quality return.
Understandable on Howson's part but he's pretty naive if he thinks he's going to get that return. He made a bad trade. It's time to stop being stubborn, cut his losses, and take the best offer he can get.

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02-21-2012, 07:52 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Columbus doesnt need forwards, especially if they are drafting nail or Grigorenko. They need defensemen.

If Nash is a Ranger, one of Staal, Macdonagh, Del Zotto or Girardi is gone. Probably add Macilrath or Erixon to that as well.
Just a thought, but, wouldn't it make some sense to ask for Anisimov, if they anticipate drafting one of those two forwards? Yes, I know both Russian players have been playing in North America, but, you would think they'd want to avoid what happened with both Zherdev and Filatov. And, AA would also be a player that could complement the play of either player.

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02-21-2012, 07:52 AM
  #913
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No, I would take that to mean, (in Eklund speak), that the Eastern Conference teams - Rangers, Flyers and Bruins - have backed away from the bidding.
Or just the Flyers because thats the only "inside info" he has

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02-21-2012, 07:55 AM
  #914
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Understandable on Howson's part but he's pretty naive if he thinks he's going to get that return. He made a bad trade. It's time to stop being stubborn, cut his losses, and take the best offer he can get.

Just because both he and Lombardi were bent over by Holmgren does not mean that a veteran GM like Sather is under pressure to do so. Aside from those two deals, history shows that star players in this league do not bring back the package of assets that Howson is hoping to land for Nash, especially when Nash has limited the number of suitors do to his NMC.

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02-21-2012, 07:56 AM
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Or just the Flyers because thats the only "inside info" he has

I thought I saw something yesterday that Boston has backed away because the refuse to part with Rask.

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02-21-2012, 07:59 AM
  #916
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I thought I saw something yesterday that Boston has backed away because the refuse to part with Rask.
That's probably true I just havent seen anything. Given Brooks report that sather commented that he is not worried about the cap implications of Nash's salary, I think the Rangers will stay involved until the end

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02-21-2012, 08:03 AM
  #917
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When's the deadline btw?
Is it even assured that Nash will be traded by the deadline?
Would Columbus get more value if they waited until the summer? What's the general consensus here? I'd assume teams are willing to pay more at the deadline, but maybe there are other factors...

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02-21-2012, 08:06 AM
  #918
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I have a hard time believing that Gorton, Clark, and Schoenfeld will be on board with gutting the organization for Nash.

Sather hired these guys for a reason.

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02-21-2012, 08:07 AM
  #919
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When's the deadline btw?
Is it even assured that Nash will be traded by the deadline?
Would Columbus get more value if they waited until the summer? What's the general consensus here? I'd assume teams are willing to pay more at the deadline, but maybe there are other factors...
Deadline is Monday the 27th at 3:00pm EST.

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02-21-2012, 08:10 AM
  #920
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That's probably true I just havent seen anything. Given Brooks report that sather commented that he is not worried about the cap implications of Nash's salary, I think the Rangers will stay involved until the end
Brooks said he's not fazed by the cap implications, but he is fazed by Columbus's trade demands.

If Columbus stays with their demands, we are not getting Nash.

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02-21-2012, 08:13 AM
  #921
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Dean Lombardi needs Rick Nash

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...,7418066.story

Deano gave up essentially 2 1st round picks for Penner. Schenn,Simmonds and a 2nd for Richards. He has no choice but to give up whatever Columbus wants for Nash. Double down and go al-LIN

Columbus is so pathetic its sad

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...eet-minds.html

Howson has been GM since the summer of 2007.

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...-for-nash.html

Andrew Gross feels Gaborik would the odd man out if the Rangers acquired Nash. That sounds familar

http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pr...thin_ice_.html

Howson want speed?

Slat's definitely trying to sell Kreider to CBJ, there is no other explanation to the hype factory we've seen lately (see Brooks acrediting Kreider unlimited potential lol) for Kreider.

Kreider is definitely one of the first you offer to CBJ if Nash becomes available. I don't think the org. is 100% sold on him, he struggles on the forecheck and its been tough for his coaches in College to get him to be effective on the ice.

Don't get me wrong, this is a roaring kid with size and decent hands who will become a solid NHLer. But we are building to contend this year, and for the coming 2-3 years. Its definitely not a given that Kreider=help now. And his value might never be higher.

Dubinsky and Kreider is the start of a good package. Dubinsky is a good fit for CBJ with his attitude, and Kreider with his speed. Add Erixon (expandable due to Strålmans play) and a pick to that offer and you got a good offer on the table.

Nash is probably a top 4-5 natrual talent in this league and up their with Mess from his arrival to 94' and Jagr in 05' as the best forwards to have played for this team the last 30 years. Perfect fit next to Richards and would help us alot in the Atlantic with his 6'4 frame. We wouldn't give up a single blue-chip asset, just depth. Nash could easily become the best in the game after playing for Torts a couple of years.

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02-21-2012, 08:15 AM
  #922
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
That's probably true I just havent seen anything. Given Brooks report that sather commented that he is not worried about the cap implications of Nash's salary, I think the Rangers will stay involved until the end
And that's what scares me.

Nash completely destroys our cap structure. Also, do people forget that, come summertime, we're going to have Wade Redden taking up our entire summer cap, too? The summer cap is designed so that a team can shuffle players in and out in an effort to sort out their lineups. We have zero flexibility in that regard. Getting Nash would simply exasperate the situation we already find ourselves in.

Our only moves should be acquiring expiring contracts for non-1sts and B level prospects. Gaustad, Whitney, Selanne, etc. Prices are going to come down as we near the deadline and more teams drop out of the race. Worst case scenario is that we stand pat and don't do anything. Is that really the worst thing in the world for a 1st place team who's window is just opening? I really don't think so.

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02-21-2012, 08:21 AM
  #923
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I repeat: If the Rangers trade either McD or MDZ I'm going to cry

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02-21-2012, 08:24 AM
  #924
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Howson want speed?

Slat's definitely trying to sell Kreider to CBJ, there is no other explanation to the hype factory we've seen lately (see Brooks acrediting Kreider unlimited potential lol) for Kreider.

Kreider is definitely one of the first you offer to CBJ if Nash becomes available. I don't think the org. is 100% sold on him, he struggles on the forecheck and its been tough for his coaches in College to get him to be effective on the ice.

Don't get me wrong, this is a roaring kid with size and decent hands who will become a solid NHLer. But we are building to contend this year, and for the coming 2-3 years. Its definitely not a given that Kreider=help now. And his value might never be higher.

Dubinsky and Kreider is the start of a good package. Dubinsky is a good fit for CBJ with his attitude, and Kreider with his speed. Add Erixon (expandable due to Strålmans play) and a pick to that offer and you got a good offer on the table.

Nash is probably a top 4-5 natrual talent in this league and up their with Mess from his arrival to 94' and Jagr in 05' as the best forwards to have played for this team the last 30 years. Perfect fit next to Richards and would help us alot in the Atlantic with his 6'4 frame. We wouldn't give up a single blue-chip asset, just depth. Nash could easily become the best in the game after playing for Torts a couple of years.
The organization isn't high on him? He's not good on the forecheck?

Based on what? Where is this information from?

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02-21-2012, 08:30 AM
  #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Howson want speed?

Slat's definitely trying to sell Kreider to CBJ, there is no other explanation to the hype factory we've seen lately (see Brooks acrediting Kreider unlimited potential lol) for Kreider.

Kreider is definitely one of the first you offer to CBJ if Nash becomes available. I don't think the org. is 100% sold on him, he struggles on the forecheck and its been tough for his coaches in College to get him to be effective on the ice.

Don't get me wrong, this is a roaring kid with size and decent hands who will become a solid NHLer. But we are building to contend this year, and for the coming 2-3 years. Its definitely not a given that Kreider=help now. And his value might never be higher.

Dubinsky and Kreider is the start of a good package. Dubinsky is a good fit for CBJ with his attitude, and Kreider with his speed. Add Erixon (expandable due to Strålmans play) and a pick to that offer and you got a good offer on the table.

Nash is probably a top 4-5 natrual talent in this league and up their with Mess from his arrival to 94' and Jagr in 05' as the best forwards to have played for this team the last 30 years. Perfect fit next to Richards and would help us alot in the Atlantic with his 6'4 frame. We wouldn't give up a single blue-chip asset, just depth. Nash could easily become the best in the game after playing for Torts a couple of years.
Couldn't disagree more.

I think the hold up is that Sather doesn't want to include Kreider in any deal.

Howson doesn't need to be sold on our top prospect.

The other explaination for the hype factor is the combination of Kreider's size, speed and shot that are all NHL calibre right now. The weakness of his game heading into BC was the fundamentals of the game which he has worked on as a Freshman and Sophmore.

Any trade that includes Kreider is one the Rangers should NEVER make.

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