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Rangers interested in Nash: Part III

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02-21-2012, 07:33 AM
  #926
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Originally Posted by egelband View Post
When's the deadline btw?
Is it even assured that Nash will be traded by the deadline?
Would Columbus get more value if they waited until the summer? What's the general consensus here? I'd assume teams are willing to pay more at the deadline, but maybe there are other factors...
Monday at 3pm

I believe

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02-21-2012, 07:34 AM
  #927
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Originally Posted by GamerZX101 View Post
http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=22

With Nash (assuming Dubinsky is traded) we'd have about $13 mil in cap room in the offseason before signing Del Zotto. Everyone needs to calm down about the cap stuff. This debate should be about how much talent we're willing to lose... his contract means NOTHING.

The cap "problems" come in the 2013 offseason when we need to extend Stepan, Hagelin, McD, and Sauer. However, even with Nash we'll still have enough money. And then the offseason after that, Gaborik's contract comes off the books and we maintain great flexibility.

We can afford one more big contract like Nash, especially after knocking off Dubinsky's 4 mil hit. This is the equivalent to signing Nash to a $3.6 mil deal and keeping Dubinsky. Would ANYONE be against that? Yeah , it's a long deal, but Nash is young and he'll be what, 33-34 when the deal is up? That takes us right through his prime.
And if McI develops in the next 2 years you can move Sauer.

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02-21-2012, 07:36 AM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Michael Sauer View Post
If we trade for Nash we probably won't be able to sign our RFAs.

If we sign Parise we probably won't be able to sign our RFAs unless we trade players away.

If we win the cup, without Nash or Parise, doesn't our cap space go down like Chicagos did a couple years ago, therefore also hindering us from signing RFAs?
Chicago didn't lose cap space but they had to pay out a lot of bonus dollars

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02-21-2012, 07:38 AM
  #929
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Deadline is Monday the 27th at 3:00pm EST.
grazie! i guess we have about a week of this. i sincerely hope the rangers stay away from this guy unless columbus' demands are really overblown or they come down. the team - as-is - is terrific. no need to gild the lily. if this guy comes cheap, in terms of return (his contract's already a bomb), it's fine. but otherwise, it's best to just walk away. spend the money on prospects and - if they're so flexible - bring in parise over the summer for that money.

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02-21-2012, 07:38 AM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Nyrvana View Post
It seems like the Rangers are determined to do this. I'm shocked the value is as high as it is though. Guy has a 7.8 million cap hit for 6 years and he's only hit 70 points once in his career!
The "value" that we are hearing is Howson's asking price, actual value will be determined by what actually winds up going to CBJ if a deal is actually completed. Just because Howson is asking for the moon and the starts doesn't mean he'll get it...we have already heard reports about teams dropping out of the hunt.

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02-21-2012, 07:39 AM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Howson want speed?

Slat's definitely trying to sell Kreider to CBJ, there is no other explanation to the hype factory we've seen lately (see Brooks acrediting Kreider unlimited potential lol) for Kreider.

Kreider is definitely one of the first you offer to CBJ if Nash becomes available. I don't think the org. is 100% sold on him, he struggles on the forecheck and its been tough for his coaches in College to get him to be effective on the ice.

Don't get me wrong, this is a roaring kid with size and decent hands who will become a solid NHLer. But we are building to contend this year, and for the coming 2-3 years. Its definitely not a given that Kreider=help now. And his value might never be higher.

Dubinsky and Kreider is the start of a good package. Dubinsky is a good fit for CBJ with his attitude, and Kreider with his speed. Add Erixon (expandable due to Strålmans play) and a pick to that offer and you got a good offer on the table.

Nash is probably a top 4-5 natrual talent in this league and up their with Mess from his arrival to 94' and Jagr in 05' as the best forwards to have played for this team the last 30 years. Perfect fit next to Richards and would help us alot in the Atlantic with his 6'4 frame. We wouldn't give up a single blue-chip asset, just depth. Nash could easily become the best in the game after playing for Torts a couple of years.
So, Dubinsky AND Kreider AND Erixon for Nash?

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Nash is a career 65 point winger. I don't care if you think that he's going to score more on a better team, you don't give up the package you listed based on projections, even if you feel strongly about them. Nash's contract only makes his value lower, as well.

As for Kreider, I think you're selling him very short. I don't think the organization is 100% sold on ANY prospect, but Kreider is as close as it comes. He needs coaching, pure and simple, which this organization will provide. He will never garner what he is worth to this organization in a trade. NYR took a huge gamble on him in the 1st Round based on potential, and it would be foolish to trade that away for anything less than overpayment. Also, you give Nash the benefit of the doubt in saying that he could become one of the best players in the league under Torts' coaching, yet deny that courtesy (potential to greatly improve) to Kreider.

Erixon I wouldn't mind parting with, if only due to our depth on the blue line. I really do think he could be something special, though. Out of all our D assets, I guess he is the most redundant.

Replace Kreider with something else of much lesser value, and I think the basis for a deal is there in terms of value. I still don't want Nash, though. That contract is just too much to handle with our cap situation.

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02-21-2012, 07:42 AM
  #932
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Originally Posted by h0ckeyman View Post
He's played in Ohio his whole career, and to be honest, he hasn't lived up to expectations there. What if he comes to NY and falls flat on his face because he can't handle it? Good luck trading him then, Bob Gainey is out of the business

Honestly, my vendetta against him might be more personal because I really don't like him. I think he is VERY one dimensional and over rated and I think he could mess with team chemistry. In all honesty, I'm not being ridiculous, I really do not think the Rangers should get him under the current circumstances, even if it was fo FREE.
Can we please stop with this NY is a tough place to play stuff...I think the past few weeks have shown that for an NHL player this is not a tough market when the sub-500 basketball team garners the backpage almost daily because of Jeremy Lin...Canadian cities are much tougher for NHL players than NYC.

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02-21-2012, 07:48 AM
  #933
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Originally Posted by h0ckeyman View Post
Sure he has played for team Canada in small spurts, but I am talking about the day in and and day out pressures of playing for the Rangers. The kind of pressures that last from October through the playoffs. Not everyone can handle that. Nash has always been EXTREMELY talented, but he is the kind of player that doesn't always bring it to the table. He has had an inconsistent NHL career. The only reason he is a star at all is because of his ridiculous talent. Overall, considering his skill set, he has had a disappointing career. It's yet to be seen how he would mesh with anyone on the Rangers! By for "free" I meant no assets, just to clear that up, and that is because of his cap hit. Obviously for less money I would be game. The 7.8 for 6 is what kills it for me.
Yeah cause the Rangers have had how many back pages of the newspaper this season? A Conference leading team can't get a back page but a sub 500 basketball team on a small streak can.

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02-21-2012, 07:49 AM
  #934
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
Yeah cause the Rangers have had how many back pages of the newspaper this season? A Conference leading team can't get a back page but a sub 500 basketball team on a small streak can.
Yeah its a joke.

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02-21-2012, 07:54 AM
  #935
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Yeah its a joke.
If we happen to win a cup, I don't even want them to put us on the back page at this point.. They can just keep us next to the High School sports news. F the Knicks.

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02-21-2012, 08:00 AM
  #936
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Originally Posted by FATCHAMALA11 View Post
If we happen to win a cup, I don't even want them to put us on the back page at this point.. They can just keep us next to the High School sports news. F the Knicks.
Best part is the Knicks are still fighting to hold onto a playoff spot, but even before Lin when they were god awful they were still getting the back page. The papers are a joke. The Rangers have the best team since 94 taking the ice every night. A majority of the team is home grown. It is a hard nosed blue collar hockey team. You would think that is something the NY media could get behind but obviously not.

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02-21-2012, 08:05 AM
  #937
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
The "value" that we are hearing is Howson's asking price, actual value will be determined by what actually winds up going to CBJ if a deal is actually completed. Just because Howson is asking for the moon and the starts doesn't mean he'll get it...we have already heard reports about teams dropping out of the hunt.

Exactly. The Rangers are not bidding against the whole league. Nash has given Columbus management a limited number of teams he'll except a trade to (and that was at management's request). So, even if, say, Edmonton was willing to part with Hall, Eberle, Klefbom and this year's #1, (for argument's sake), Nash isn't going there, so the offer means nothing. And, if Nash truly is reluctant to go to LA, as some reports have suggested, then even their offer can be discounted. If Boston is not willing to move Rask, and Philly won't move the likes of Couturier, (who Columbus could have drafted if they had not made the deal for Carter), JVR and/or Schenn, where does Howson and company turn to? Sather should just sit back and keep a modest offer on the table, which in my opinion would be Dubi/Erixon and a #1. If that's not enough, maybe add a 2nd tier prospect, say Thomas or St. Croix. Remember, Columbus ownership are the ones who started this process, not Nash. This isn't a Heatley situation. It could very well be that Columbus ownership has started a process they have to finish. Who is the pressure on in that situation? Certainly not the GM of the team with the most points in the Eastern Conference.

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02-21-2012, 08:07 AM
  #938
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
That's probably true I just havent seen anything. Given Brooks report that sather commented that he is not worried about the cap implications of Nash's salary, I think the Rangers will stay involved until the end
If this is true, then he will be a Ranger. The organization has shown the ability to develop young players at a nice clip which makes it easier not harder to deal someone like Kreider. As someone wrote in a previous post, the hype machine over the last week has been unreal about this kid.
He is not regraded as a "can't miss" type of prospect by anyone but Ranger fans.
If they get Nash for Dubi and Kreider, that would be a steal.

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02-21-2012, 08:09 AM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
If this is true, then he will be a Ranger. The organization has shown the ability to develop young players at a nice clip which makes it easier not harder to deal someone like Kreider. As someone wrote in a previous post, the hype machine over the last week has been unreal about this kid.
He is not regraded as a "can't miss" type of prospect by anyone but Ranger fans.
If they get Nash for Dubi and Kreider, that would be a steal.
That's because he is a "can't miss" prospect. Have you seen him play?

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02-21-2012, 08:11 AM
  #940
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
That's because he is a "can't miss" prospect. Have you seen him play?
Is this sarcasm?

Nash for Dubi and Kreider is indeed a steal.

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02-21-2012, 08:17 AM
  #941
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Is this sarcasm?

Nash for Dubi and Kreider is indeed a steal.
Not at all. The kid is legit. He is going to be a top 6 forward at the very least. More likely top 3. He is that good. He has all the tools. It's not like he is just some big body with semi decent hands who can stand in front of the net and bang pucks in to offset that he isnt that quick at 6'3". No in fact it is the opposite. This kid could fly. On multiple occasions this season as well as seasons past he has blown by defenders. And to complement that speed he has great hands. He is also very shifty at times. He has been tightening up his game in other areas under Jerry York. He plays on the PP and the PK. The kid can do it all. He will translate it to the NHL. It might not all translate in the NHL next year but certainly sooner rather than later.

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02-21-2012, 08:21 AM
  #942
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
Is this sarcasm?

Nash for Dubi and Kreider is indeed a steal.
Anytime you give up your top prospect in a deal, it's not a steal.

Not unless your'e getting back the best player in the league.

imo

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02-21-2012, 08:22 AM
  #943
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Anytime you give up your top prospect in a deal, it's not a steal.

Not unless your'e getting back the best player in the sport back.

imo
Which Nash isn't...and, I'm not sure he's even in the top ten.

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02-21-2012, 08:23 AM
  #944
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Just a thought, but, wouldn't it make some sense to ask for Anisimov, if they anticipate drafting one of those two forwards? Yes, I know both Russian players have been playing in North America, but, you would think they'd want to avoid what happened with both Zherdev and Filatov. And, AA would also be a player that could complement the play of either player.
AA makes sense because if Nash plays the left side, AA's a 3rd or 4th liner on the Rangers.

They should want AA. He can play to positions and is sound defensively. Scoring a goal against them didnt hurt.

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02-21-2012, 08:26 AM
  #945
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All things considered, you have to understand where Sather is coming from. He has a team that has a real shot at winning the stanley cup this year. It is not as if the team is sitting in 4th or 5th and there's no reason to go all in when you have more youth pumping through the pipes. They are in 1st place and have beaten pretty much everyone this year especially their main two threats, Boston and Philly. But if you look past that, come playoff time Philly and Boston could very well be the 2nd and 3rd round opponents. The playoffs are a different atmosphere and you;d be going up against two teams that can score goals, one of which has a solid goaltender and defense (Boston). Boston has 190+ goals for this season while Philly has 180+. The Rangers sit at just 161. I'm not as worried about Philly because they can give up their fair share of goals. But Boston is the one that worries you, or Sather and staff at least. And then to even take it a step further Detroit and Vancouver both have 190+ goals for as well while both having good numbers for goals against because they too have good goaltending and defensemen (though Luongo tends to choke).

I think that is why you see Sather heavily considering Nash. Who knows, you might not be back here next year. You can't just throw away a perfect opportunity to win a championship just because of the possibility you may be here again next year with the likes of Kreider and the possibility someone else becomes available in free agency or through trade to complete the roster.

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02-21-2012, 08:27 AM
  #946
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Anytime you give up your top prospect in a deal, it's not a steal.

Not unless your'e getting back the best player in the league.

imo

Well as much as I don't want Nash, I would have to disagree with that statement. I mean what if your top prospect isn't that highly regarded? What if he is highly regarded but you are getting an elite talent in return?

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02-21-2012, 08:30 AM
  #947
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Well as much as I don't want Nash, I would have to disagree with that statement. I mean what if your top prospect isn't that highly regarded? What if he is highly regarded but you are getting an elite talent in return?
Well I would have to think given what many hockey analysts have said throughout the year that Kreider is pretty highly regarded.

And to the second part, I guess it depends on what you consider elite. Nash is a very nice player but I'd hardly call him elite.

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02-21-2012, 08:32 AM
  #948
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AA makes sense because if Nash plays the left side, AA's a 3rd or 4th liner on the Rangers.

They should want AA. He can play to positions and is sound defensively. Scoring a goal against them didnt hurt.
How does this even make sense? Nash will play with Richards and Callahan not Stepan and Gaborik. Hagelin moves to the third line.

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02-21-2012, 08:37 AM
  #949
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That's because he is a "can't miss" prospect. Have you seen him play?
The strongest human emotion is disappointment. Prospects are can't miss because they have yet to disappoint you. Chris Kreider has never been the "Redden" in a post-game thread, how amazing is that?!? He's so consistently awesome!

MPS was seen as the safest prospect in his draft year. Now what? Same thing with Nino.

All prospects go from "I would die to have them status" to being a run of the mill or bottom of the totem pole player. It is inevitable for all but the truly "can't miss" guys.

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02-21-2012, 08:38 AM
  #950
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How does this even make sense? Nash will play with Richards and Callahan not Stepan and Gaborik. Hagelin moves to the third line.
For this year. But, if Kreider is not in the deal, based upon the idea that was echoed by Jim Cerny in a recent chat, the Rangers believe Kreider can step into the the top six next year. If that is the mindset of the franchise, then out of Stepan, Richards, Gaborik, Callahan, Nash and Anisimov, which one do you think ends up on the 3rd line if Kreider forces his way into the top six? (And, again, this based on what has been speculated by Cerny, as close a source to the Rangers as you can get, who has access to Ranger brass, that no journalist covering them has.)

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