I would absolutely love to acquire Steve Ott. He would be a huge addition to this team. Move Raymond or hell even Jordan Schroeder I'd move...that's how high I am on this guy. He's signed for a couple more seasons after this, and really is one of those heart and soul type players you need to win.
Just because we should be looking to add a top 4 defenseman doesn't mean this deal shouldn't happen also. Not to mention the fact that there might be only one top 4 defenseman moved at the deadline (if that) and that would likely be in a much larger deal than we'd be willing to do. Ott's contract at $2.95M isn't hard to chew on, especially given what he brings. Dallas will want something of value, which is why I think Raymond + 2nd round pick for Ott would be a good deal for both teams.
Well, under practical circumstances you likely can't have both a top 4 D-man and Ott, so why not go after the D-men first? And while I wouldn't mind his contract for this year, he'd still be pricey given that his term still has another 2 years. Yes, the way MG runs things it makes sense that he spends towards the cap, but you always have to reserve some sort of flexibility, just think of it as a money reserve/emergency funding for when you need it (ie, an opportunity for a BIG difference-maker to come along would need that sort of flexibility).
Edit: just to clarify, I do think Ott would be a difference-maker, but in the span of the next 2 or so years, I'd say there's a good chance MG could get an even better deal. Only under the context of assuring a cup win now, as well as the inability to grab a decent D-man without losing much, would it make sense to deal for Ott.
Last edited by orcasEATsharks: 02-21-2012 at 02:44 AM.
Reason: Additional note.
The whole Aquilini/Gagliardi thing is such a non-factor IMO. Owners usually leave deals to the GM to make. He's not going to interfere with his GM trying to make his team better because he's got a grudge.
Does anyone remember when the Carolina Hurricanes gave Sergei Fedorov a record RFA offer sheet because Pete Karmanos had a well known grudge against the Red Wings? This kind of thing does happen in the NHL.
Gagliardi was not very happy with the sneaky way he was pushed out of the Canucks ownership group. You don't think that he's still a little pissed after spending millions in court on a lawsuit and losing?
The idea that egos do not factor into business decisions in the NHL is ridiculous. Everyone knows the NHL is run by an old boys network. Most of the owners are in this business because of vanity and their big egos - not because they think the NHL is profitable.
Does anyone remember when the Carolina Hurricanes gave Sergei Fedorov a record RFA offer sheet because Pete Karmanos had a well known grudge against the Red Wings? This kind of thing does happen in the NHL.
Gagliardi was not very happy with the sneaky way he was pushed out of the Canucks ownership group. You don't think that he's still a little pissed after spending millions in court on a lawsuit and losing?
The idea that egos do not factor into business decisions in the NHL is ridiculous. Everyone knows the NHL is run by an old boys network. Most of the owners are in this business because of vanity and their big egos - not because they think the NHL is profitable.
I think Gagliardi has more important things to worry about than sticking it to Aquilini by not allowing Joe Nieuwendyk to make a trade he feels will make his team better...like getting ***** into seats at American Airlines Center. I'm not saying its impossible for it to happen, but he would have to be a pretty poor businessman to undermine his GM in that manner.
When you get voted "worst trash talker in the league" by your own teammate, there's got to be some merit to it.
(at the 1:20 mark)
I like Steve Ott a lot. You really can't hate him for all his antics since he is such a good asset on so many levels. Would love to see him in a Canucks uniform.
With Ott we would finally start to deserve the "most hated team" title.
As much as I respect Raymond for the character he is and the work ethic he has, Ott would be a huge upgrade in the playoffs.
I'd do that trade. Not in a heartbeat, but I'd do it.
I think Gagliardi has more important things to worry about than sticking it to Aquilini by not allowing Joe Nieuwendyk to make a trade he feels will make his team better...like getting ***** into seats at American Airlines Center. I'm not saying its impossible for it to happen, but he would have to be a pretty poor businessman to undermine his GM in that manner.
That, and the fact that interfering with your GMs ability to do his job:
A) Pisses off your GM and sends a negative message about your franchise to other GMs, owners, and even players about your franchise.
B) Makes you look like a whiny little child who puts petty revenge above the interests of your club. I doubt Gagliardi would want to give Aquillini the satisfaction of thinking he is that.
Well, under practical circumstances you likely can't have both a top 4 D-man and Ott, so why not go after the D-men first?
I'm not sure I agree with that perspective. Firstly, let's be reality: the Canucks are not acquiring a top 4 dman at the deadline. A top 4 guy is going to cost too much either in assets to acquire or in salary or both. Look at Kubina, he went for relatively cheap picks but Philly could take on his nearly $4M contract w/out sending a roster player back. Vancouver cannot. To acquire a guy like Kubina (for example), we'd have to send either a guy like Ballard and his $4.2M contract back - in which case the trade is pretty much a lateral move, despite AV's misuse of Ballard - or we'd have to send a forward like Raymond who, despite his flaws, is not a player we can give up w/out replacing with another forward coming back.
So if picking up a top 4 guy is out (at least imo), MG is probably then looking at a depth move on defense, which would likely be a player with $2M or less in cap hit. Picking up a player like that wouldn't necessarily be impacted by trading say Raymond for Ott, which would result in Vancouver adding $0.45M to their current cap. We still have approx. $1.5M is cap space ($2M less Ott's addition, which is the figure tossed around here most often) to pick up a depth Dman, plus any salary shed by sending a current depth Dman like Rome or Alberts back the other way.
You may disagree but I don't think we necessarily have to choose between upgrading the 3rd line (i.e. Ott) and upgrading the defense.
Walker: Do you love to be hated?
Ott: (Laughing) In a way, I guess. I love to be wanted on a team, but hated to play against. It’s a bit of a double-edged sword.
...
Walker:Is there a line you won’t cross?
Ott: Absolutely. I don’t mess with family illnesses or anything too personal like that.
...
Walker:Would you agree that you’re quite different off the ice than on?
Ott: Definitely, like 180 degrees. I’m a dad that loves his family, a fairly subdued guy really, but that changes as soon as I get in the rink.
Off the ice he says the right things, obviously he is an agitator but I don't think we're talking about Sean Avery or Dan Carcillo here. Oh yeah and:
Quote:
Walker:Mike Modano said your constant yapping used to bother him more than the opposition. True?
Ott: (Laughing) True. But some nights Mo didn’t want to get hit, so that was probably the reasoning behind that if I was playing on his left side.
I guess the key then is putting Ott on the ice with teammates who don't fold like a cheap tent in physical games..
I know that element of Matt Cooke's game became a real problem on this team, but there is a huge difference between the two - Ott is not nearly the headhunter Cooke was, and Ott fights his own battles: five fights this year, ten last year and as many the year before that (eleven) as Cooke had in his entire career as a a Canuck.. that's seven seasons.
Last edited by dave babych returns: 02-21-2012 at 11:32 AM.
Madano was a solid playoff performer that won a Stanley Cup.
prime modano was one hell of a player. he played hard both ways, carried the team on his back, and did the many painful little things that opened up room for his teammates. the modano that played with ott had his captaincy stripped from him and no longer wanted anything to do with the physical toll that made him the best player on a stanley cup winner.
prime modano was one hell of a player. he played hard both ways, carried the team on his back, and did the many painful little things that opened up room for his teammates. the modano that played with ott had his captaincy stripped from him and no longer wanted anything to do with the physical toll that made him the best player on a stanley cup winner.
In 02/03 Modano had 5g and 10a in 12 playoff games. Ott was on that team. Pretty good playoffs for the guy you described.
That, and the fact that interfering with your GMs ability to do his job:
A) Pisses off your GM and sends a negative message about your franchise to other GMs, owners, and even players about your franchise.
B) Makes you look like a whiny little child who puts petty revenge above the interests of your club. I doubt Gagliardi would want to give Aquillini the satisfaction of thinking he is that.
A) Certain things are unsaid in this world - like if you work for Coke you don't bring Pepsi to work. A good manager understands who his boss is affiliated with and works with those parameters. Being unfriendly to ONE team is not going to cripple any GM. A number of GM's already do not like the Canucks management and have publicly stated such anyways. Or maybe you forgot about all the anti Gillis furor when he was hired. Gillis is a bit of an outsider in this league. The other GM's would not care if Dallas was unfriendly.
Of course this doesn't mean that the Stars can't trade with the Canucks. Recent history just suggests that they will be less receptive. It probably means that they will trade with other teams before Vancouver or want to get more back to feel comfortable. Whatever they do it seems pretty unlikely that the Dallas Stars want to be in a position to really help the Vancouver Canucks win a Stanley Cup. Don't kid yourself that egos and vanity do not exist in the NHL. The owners do not buy teams for any other reason.
B) This make's absolutely no sense. Rebuffing what people call "the most hated team in hockey" for a trade does not make the Dallas Stars look whiny. It may actually bring cheers. And sticking it to the Canucks may give Gagliardi satisfaction but definitely not Aquilini.
In 02/03 Modano had 5g and 10a in 12 playoff games. Ott was on that team. Pretty good playoffs for the guy you described.
The interview I linked came out in 2010 I think, so Modano was probably quoted somewhere in between. Given he is talking about them playing on the same line, it's probable that it's a lot closer to 2010.
Modano is one of the greats and I'm not trying to trash the guy, but he was obviously well into the downslope of his career by the time Ott made the Stars and would have played on his wing.
The interview I linked came out in 2010 I think, so Modano was probably quoted somewhere in between. Given he is talking about them playing on the same line, it's probable that it's a lot closer to 2010.
Modano is one of the greats and I'm not trying to trash the guy, but he was obviously well into the downslope of his career by the time Ott made the Stars and would have played on his wing.
That's fine. My point is that guys like Ott can rub their teammates the wrong way (even if they are wearing an "A") They can be a distraction, they draw attention to skilled players when they move up the lineup. Again, I'm not saying it's a terrible idea, I just don't think it's the slam dunk most of you are making it out to be. Finding the right personalities has been a big part of what Gillis has done here. If he brings him in I'm sure he will be fine.
Or maybe you forgot about all the anti Gillis furor when he was hired. Gillis is a bit of an outsider in this league.
Really? The only organizations that have any problem with Gillis are either employers of the Burke/Nonis/Tambellini brain trust or have well documented spats going with management of several other teams (Kevin Lowe).. suggesting the problem is likely not Gillis.
Since Mike Gillis was hired he has completed trades with nearly half the league (13 teams), so any suggestion that he is some kind of pariah seems outdated at best.
Quote:
Of course this doesn't mean that the Stars can't trade with the Canucks. Recent history just suggests that they will be less receptive. It probably means that they will trade with other teams before Vancouver or want to get more back to feel comfortable. Whatever they do it seems pretty unlikely that the Dallas Stars want to be in a position to really help the Vancouver Canucks win a Stanley Cup.
I'm sure what the Dallas Stars want (even considering the ego and potential meddling of their owner) is to be in a position to help themselves, and Mason Raymond is the type of return for Steve Ott that they are unlikely to find anywhere else.
Raymond is cheaper than Ott, can play in a similar variety of roles and brings mobility the Stars need; it's probable that he can be re-signed to a similar term for less money than Ott and for a franchise with trouble selling tickets (no matter how big their owners ego might be) that's got to be tempting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr
That's fine. My point is that guys like Ott can rub their teammates the wrong way (even if they are wearing an "A") They can be a distraction, they draw attention to skilled players when they move up the lineup. Again, I'm not saying it's a terrible idea, I just don't think it's the slam dunk most of you are making it out to be. Finding the right personalities has been a big part of what Gillis has done here. If he brings him in I'm sure he will be fine.
Well sure - Ott could come in here and be a complete disaster, who knows. We both agree that if Gillis and his staff look at the possibility and see Ott as a contributor here then it will probably work out... I guess I just think that is likelier than you do.
Ott would be a pretty sweet addition to the team, he definately could bring something that the team lacks. But with mid season pickups you just never know how they will fit in with the team. Given that buffalo isn't a lock to make the playoffs what do you think about trying to call about hoff? I mean granted he just signed with the team and he has a long contract. But we know he'll fit the system and with salo coming off the books likely next year it may be something that may work
