HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rangers interested in Nash: Part III

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-21-2012, 09:39 AM
  #951
RGY
(Jagr68NYR94Leetch)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
The strongest human emotion is disappointment. Prospects are can't miss because they have yet to disappoint you. Chris Kreider has never been the "Redden" in a post-game thread, how amazing is that?!? He's so consistently awesome!

MPS was seen as the safest prospect in his draft year. Now what? Same thing with Nino.

All prospects go from "I would die to have them status" to being a run of the mill or bottom of the totem pole player. It is inevitable for all but the truly "can't miss" guys.
I'd rather hold onto him and take my chances of him not fulfilling that expectation than to trade him and wonder what could've been or be kicking ourselves because he really was that talented and that good and all we had to do was be patient and show restraint.

RGY is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 09:49 AM
  #952
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 15,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
How does this even make sense? Nash will play with Richards and Callahan not Stepan and Gaborik. Hagelin moves to the third line.
Thanks, Coach Tortarella. It's a pleasure to have you on board here with us.

How is Sauer doing?

GWOW is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 09:50 AM
  #953
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
For this year. But, if Kreider is not in the deal, based upon the idea that was echoed by Jim Cerny in a recent chat, the Rangers believe Kreider can step into the the top six next year. If that is the mindset of the franchise, then out of Stepan, Richards, Gaborik, Callahan, Nash and Anisimov, which one do you think ends up on the 3rd line if Kreider forces his way into the top six? (And, again, this based on what has been speculated by Cerny, as close a source to the Rangers as you can get, who has access to Ranger brass, that no journalist covering them has.)
That's fine if he makes it and slots in in the top 6 an you have to relegate someone to the 3rd line then Anisimov is easier to handle on the 3rd at his cap hit next year than Dubinsky.


Quote:
Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Thanks, Coach Tortarella. It's a pleasure to have you on board here with us.

How is Sauer doing?
You know everything why don't you tell me?

Barbara Underhill is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 09:55 AM
  #954
Melrose_Jr.
Registered User
 
Melrose_Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Providence, RI
Country: United States
Posts: 10,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
Nash completely destroys our cap structure. Also, do people forget that, come summertime, we're going to have Wade Redden taking up our entire summer cap, too? The summer cap is designed so that a team can shuffle players in and out in an effort to sort out their lineups. We have zero flexibility in that regard. Getting Nash would simply exasperate the situation we already find ourselves in.
Yah, a lot of people have conveniently forgotten about Redden when stating that there are no cap issues. This team essentially has no summer overage for 2 more years. Over that period, you'll have to replace or resign McD, MDZ, Sauer, Stralman, Eminger, Bickel, Anisimov, Stepan, Haglein, Prust, Mitchell, Fedotenko and Biron.

Melrose_Jr. is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:15 AM
  #955
NHRangerfan
enfoonts
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Country: United States
Posts: 3,091
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Yah, a lot of people have conveniently forgotten about Redden when stating that there are no cap issues. This team essentially has no summer overage for 2 more years. Over that period, you'll have to replace or resign McD, MDZ, Sauer, Stralman, Eminger, Bickel, Anisimov, Stepan, Haglein, Prust, Mitchell, Fedotenko and Biron.
Nobody even knows if there will be a season next year, and maybe Sather as President of the NY Rangers and being privvy to the owners strategy feels that it may be better to take a shot now if the owners plan to take a hard line and are willing to lose a season next year.

The lockout shortened season in 91-92 really killed the momentum that Rangers team was building.

NHRangerfan is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:17 AM
  #956
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 15,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
That's fine if he makes it and slots in in the top 6 an you have to relegate someone to the 3rd line then Anisimov is easier to handle on the 3rd at his cap hit next year than Dubinsky.




You know everything why don't you tell me?


If Nash is asked to play the left side, why would you demote Hagelin, who's been as consistent as anyone this season, instead of Anisimov, who has been grossly inconsistent this season and outperformed by Hagelin?

Nash is low maintenance. He doesnt need a center to get him scoring chances. Anisimov has been in and out of Torts' doghouse, it's likely that he will be the odd man out, not Hagelin, who's also developed chemistry with Richards and Cally, and theyre the Rangers' best forechecking line.

GWOW is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:19 AM
  #957
Gardner McKay
Moderator
#4parsley
 
Gardner McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 10,964
vCash: 1647
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
Nobody even knows if there will be a season next year, and maybe Sather as President of the NY Rangers and being privvy to the owners strategy feels that it may be better to take a shot now if the owners plan to take a hard line and are willing to lose a season next year.

The lockout shortened season in 91-92 really killed the momentum that Rangers team was building.
Don't you mean 94-95?

Gardner McKay is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:19 AM
  #958
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Would the Jackets even risk trading for an unsigned player in Kreider?

Gatorade* is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:23 AM
  #959
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 15,519
vCash: 500
If the intent is to play Nash on LW, then kiss one of Dubinsky or AA goodbye, either in the Nash deal or another deal.

Dubinsky is locked up longer but expensive

AA is under contract and inexpensive.

I don't know why Howson would want Dubinsky. No way an expensive underachiver is the centerpiece for a guy like Nash.

GWOW is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:24 AM
  #960
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 15,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Don't you mean 94-95?
He's talking about the 10-day work stoppage. No games were missed. It just extended the season.

Some writers wthink it killed their momentum. I diagree. They dismantled the Pens the last game that season.

GWOW is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:24 AM
  #961
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,833
vCash: 500
People keep citing the uncertainty surrounding the next CBA as reason not to fret about potential cap issues caused by bringing in Nash. To me, it makes the notion of trading for Nash even scarier.

Crease is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:24 AM
  #962
JoeRangers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Staten Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
If Nash is asked to play the left side, why would you demote Hagelin, who's been as consistent as anyone this season, instead of Anisimov, who has been grossly inconsistent this season and outperformed by Hagelin?

Nash is low maintenance. He doesnt need a center to get him scoring chances. Anisimov has been in and out of Torts' doghouse, it's likely that he will be the odd man out, not Hagelin, who's also developed chemistry with Richards and Cally, and theyre the Rangers' best forechecking line.
I wouldnt demote AA because that has been one of the best lines. He really hasnt been inconsistent so much as he had a bad 17 or so game stretch. If that line keeps playing the way they have I wouldnt break it up. I would keep that line together and put Nash on the Richards - Cally line. Hagelin unfortunately would go to the 3rd line.

JoeRangers is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:26 AM
  #963
Melrose_Jr.
Registered User
 
Melrose_Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Providence, RI
Country: United States
Posts: 10,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
Nobody even knows if there will be a season next year, and maybe Sather as President of the NY Rangers and being privvy to the owners strategy feels that it may be better to take a shot now if the owners plan to take a hard line and are willing to lose a season next year.
That's you're counter argument? Ignore the cap implications because there might be another lockout and a completely new cap structure implemented on the back side of it?

Melrose_Jr. is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:31 AM
  #964
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
If Nash is asked to play the left side, why would you demote Hagelin, who's been as consistent as anyone this season, instead of Anisimov, who has been grossly inconsistent this season and outperformed by Hagelin?

Nash is low maintenance. He doesnt need a center to get him scoring chances. Anisimov has been in and out of Torts' doghouse, it's likely that he will be the odd man out, not Hagelin, who's also developed chemistry with Richards and Cally, and theyre the Rangers' best forechecking line.
I hear what you're saying, but AA has 7pts in the last 8 games and that line is playing well so I think the first experiment with Nash would be to put him on the second line and drop Hagelin to the third. I can see your scenario playing out as well, it doesn't bother me if AA or Hagelin play on the third line as they both are capable of improving that line by elevating their line mates play.

Barbara Underhill is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:32 AM
  #965
NY Lito
Blueshirt Pride
 
NY Lito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 989
vCash: 500
I'm really on the fence. The cap implications are scary, but for the rest of this season and next we basically have this team, but essentially swapping in Nash for Dubinsky (if you go by most proposals). This is a damn hard decision. I really think if you swap Nash in for Dubinsky we are clearly the best team in the NHL.

NY Lito is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:34 AM
  #966
RGY
(Jagr68NYR94Leetch)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
That's you're counter argument? Ignore the cap implications because there might be another lockout and a completely new cap structure implemented on the back side of it?
Well at the same time if there is indeed another lockout, Richards gets older by another year, so does gaborik. Henrik is in his prime. Hate to lose a year out of him for a lockout but it's possible. If there is a lockout this might be the best time to make a run. Just saying, it's not completely out of this world for him to think that way.

RGY is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:35 AM
  #967
NHRangerfan
enfoonts
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Country: United States
Posts: 3,091
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
That's you're counter argument? Ignore the cap implications because there might be another lockout and a completely new cap structure implemented on the back side of it?
Not an argument just pointing out there is a lot of stuff that could be figuring into Sathers decision, among those a potential lockout and lost season that we have no clue about...I'm sure the owners already have a game plan for their asks and the minimum they are willing to settle for and Sather knows what that plan is. Why else would Brooks say Sather is not concerned about cap implications only the asking price?

For instance if Sather knows there will be amnesty buyouts with no cap impact in the next CBA doesn't that change the equation? Or maybe the large markets give something to the small-mid markets and in exchange prior buyouts (Drury) also come off the cap in the next CBA.

There are so many unknowns with the CBA expiring it would be difficult for anyone to say that getting Nash would hamstring this team cap wise next season or seasons after that.

NHRangerfan is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:35 AM
  #968
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,564
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
That's you're counter argument? Ignore the cap implications because there might be another lockout and a completely new cap structure implemented on the back side of it?
No, his argument is that Sather sees an extended work stoppage coming and has no idea what's coming out on the other side.

So, rather than managing this team to compete at some uncertain date under some uncertain rules (and understanding that the timing and new rules could easily undo any planning he does now), Sather may be thinking "I know I can go for it now and then I'll deal with 'next season' when I actually know when it'll be and what it'll look like."

This doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to completely screw the team for future years with no consideration towards what might happen in 2014, rather that he's not going to let $2MM of cap space either way stop him from taking his best shot now.

BrooklynRangersFan is online now  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:36 AM
  #969
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 15,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeRangers View Post
I wouldnt demote AA because that has been one of the best lines. He really hasnt been inconsistent so much as he had a bad 17 or so game stretch. If that line keeps playing the way they have I wouldnt break it up. I would keep that line together and put Nash on the Richards - Cally line. Hagelin unfortunately would go to the 3rd line.
He also started the season in a slump and was benched/demoted.

Twice in half a season?

The safer bet is Hagelin, whose work ethic has never been questioned, hasn't revealed any "personal" issues and when he isnt scoring, he can provide relentless pressure on the puck.

Hagelin has outperformed AA this season. Plain and simple.

GWOW is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:39 AM
  #970
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 15,519
vCash: 500
We're talking about Nash going to LW...I wonder if he wants to play out of position to come to NY and a cup contender. Then if he struggles, and privatley complains its because he's out of position...then what?

You demote Cally? Gaborik? Make them play out of position?

I just dont see this ending well at all.

GWOW is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:40 AM
  #971
NHRangerfan
enfoonts
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Country: United States
Posts: 3,091
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
No, his argument is that Sather sees an extended work stoppage coming and has no idea what's coming out on the other side.

So, rather than managing this team to compete at some uncertain date under some uncertain rules (and understanding that the timing and new rules could easily undo any planning he does now), Sather may be thinking "I know I can go for it now and then I'll deal with 'next season' when I actually know when it'll be and what it'll look like."

This doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to completely screw the team for future years with no consideration towards what might happen in 2014, rather that he's not going to let $2MM of cap space either way stop him from taking his best shot now.
You sir are a scholar

NHRangerfan is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:40 AM
  #972
Onion Boy
Registered User
 
Onion Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: Japan
Posts: 2,678
vCash: 500
Does it make sense to trade both Dubinsky and Anisimov for Nash? Plus picks?

Too much?

Onion Boy is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:44 AM
  #973
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
If the intent is to play Nash on LW, then kiss one of Dubinsky or AA goodbye, either in the Nash deal or another deal.

Dubinsky is locked up longer but expensive

AA is under contract and inexpensive.

I don't know why Howson would want Dubinsky. No way an expensive underachiver is the centerpiece for a guy like Nash.
Howson wants McD, Kreider, McIlrath and 1st.
He will get at the end Dubinski, Kreider, 1st and 2nd.
If Howson waits till summer he gets nothing from Rangers.

94now is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:47 AM
  #974
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 15,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Howson wants McD, Kreider, McIlrath and 1st.
He will get at the end Dubinski, Kreider, 1st and 2nd.
If Howson waits till summer he gets nothing from Rangers.
Then he's better off holding onto Nash..

GWOW is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:49 AM
  #975
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,628
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Yah, a lot of people have conveniently forgotten about Redden when stating that there are no cap issues. This team essentially has no summer overage for 2 more years. Over that period, you'll have to replace or resign McD, MDZ, Sauer, Stralman, Eminger, Bickel, Anisimov, Stepan, Haglein, Prust, Mitchell, Fedotenko and Biron.
You'd have to think there would be an amnesty buyout period once a new CBA is reached.

Truth be told, I'm not so worried about the cap implications. If Sather, Clarke and Gorton are ready to pull the trigger on Nash, then they have a plan in place. The mantra has been "stay the course" but as we've seen this year, the team appears to have found a shortcut along the way, and now we've found ourselves much closer to the "destination" than most thought we would be to start the year. If the organization sees Nash as an extra motor to get us to the promised land, then maybe jettisoning a couple assets isn't as tough to stomach for them as it is for us. A lot of us have an attachment to these players, the guys running the show are paid to not form attachments.

What really rubs me the wrong way is the fact that so many people write Nash off as a player, despite the fact that I'd wager that the majority of them saw Nash play for the first time all season on Sunday night. Nash is what we all hope Kreider could be. A huge body with a laser of a shot and great wheels. Nash has better instincts and softer hands, but Kreider has the edge in speed. Am I advocating including Kreider in a trade? Not at all, but I am saying that people need to appreciate just how special of a player Nash is. The outrage over trading top prospects or key roster players is understandable, but the criticisms over Nash's talent are ridiculous. I keep seeing "He's a 60 point player!" but none of those people seem to acknowledge that Nash has as many 40 goal seasons as Gaborik does. Gabby's career highs are 42,42,38. Nash's are 41,40,38. This guy is a top echelon talent.

Adding Nash, in the right deal of course, makes us a tremendous threat for The Cup. Not many teams can match up two defensive pairings against two lines with a 40 goal scorer on them. We'd have the offense, the defense, and the goaltending to make a run this year, as well as next year. Two legitimate shots at Lord Stanley is worth A LOT to a front office.

Trxjw is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:32 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.