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Rangers interested in Nash: Part III

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02-21-2012, 09:49 AM
  #976
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
He also started the season in a slump and was benched/demoted.

Twice in half a season?

The safer bet is Hagelin, whose work ethic has never been questioned, hasn't revealed any "personal" issues and when he isnt scoring, he can provide relentless pressure on the puck.

Hagelin has outperformed AA this season. Plain and simple.
That line is playing well now though. If they keep playing like they are I wouldnt break it up just because Hagelin has outperformed AA. AA is outperforming him right now it would be stupid to move AA to a different line while hes playing well.

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02-21-2012, 09:51 AM
  #977
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Im thinking that the rangers will end up with Nash.
I personally don't want anything to do with a Nash trade but Im thinking that Sather and Dolan are really pressing for this year to be a serious run now.

I really hope I don't wake up and see a confirmed trade link saying that kreider was involved for Nash.

Guaranteed when we get Nash, he underperforms and he ends up being just an enormous dollar sign hanging over our heads.


Last edited by racer90: 02-21-2012 at 09:52 AM. Reason: typo
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02-21-2012, 09:52 AM
  #978
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We're talking about Nash going to LW...I wonder if he wants to play out of position to come to NY and a cup contender. Then if he struggles, and privatley complains its because he's out of position...then what?

You demote Cally? Gaborik? Make them play out of position?

I just dont see this ending well at all.
He plays either side so I dont see any problem with that.

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02-21-2012, 09:54 AM
  #979
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Assuming we get Nash, AA (if not traded) gets moved back to center next season.

LW headed into the PO's: Nash, AA, Hagelin, Rupp
C headed into PO's: Richards, Stepan, Boyle, Mitchell
RW headed into PO's: Callahan, Gaborik, Prust, Bickell

However, next year?

LW depth heading into 2012-13 season: Nash, Kreider, Hagelin, Rupp
C depth heading into 2012-13 season: Richards, Stepan, Anisimov, Boyle
RW depth heading into 2012-13 season: Gaborik, Callahan, Prust, Mitchell

AA is working well as a winger right now, but when we start gaining more talent at the forward position, moving Boyle off the 3rd line is in this teams best interest long-term.

Get someone as good defensively but better offensively as the 3rd line pivot and that makes the Rangers a better, deeper team.


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02-21-2012, 09:54 AM
  #980
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Im thinking that the rangers will end up with Nash.
I personally don't want anything to do with a Nash trade but Im thinking that Sather and Dolan are really pressing for this year to be a serious run now.

I really hope I don't wake up and see a confirmed trade link saying that kreider was involved for Nash.

Guaranteed when we get Nash, he underperforms and he ends up being just an enormous dollar sign hanging over our heads.
I cant understand why people say this. What has he shown that makes you think he will under perform?

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02-21-2012, 09:54 AM
  #981
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You'd have to think there would be an amnesty buyout period once a new CBA is reached.

Truth be told, I'm not so worried about the cap implications. If Sather, Clarke and Gorton are ready to pull the trigger on Nash, then they have a plan in place. The mantra has been "stay the course" but as we've seen this year, the team appears to have found a shortcut along the way, and now we've found ourselves much closer to the "destination" than most thought we would be to start the year. If the organization sees Nash as an extra motor to get us to the promised land, then maybe jettisoning a couple assets isn't as tough to stomach for them as it is for us. A lot of us have an attachment to these players, the guys running the show are paid to not form attachments.

What really rubs me the wrong way is the fact that so many people write Nash off as a player, despite the fact that I'd wager that the majority of them saw Nash play for the first time all season on Sunday night. Nash is what we all hope Kreider could be. A huge body with a laser of a shot and great wheels. Nash has better instincts and softer hands, but Kreider has the edge in speed. Am I advocating including Kreider in a trade? Not at all, but I am saying that people need to appreciate just how special of a player Nash is. The outrage over trading top prospects or key roster players is understandable, but the criticisms over Nash's talent are ridiculous. I keep seeing "He's a 60 point player!" but none of those people seem to acknowledge that Nash has as many 40 goal seasons as Gaborik does. Gabby's career highs are 42,42,38. Nash's are 41,40,38. This guy is a top echelon talent.

Adding Nash, in the right deal of course, makes us a tremendous threat for The Cup. Not many teams can match up two defensive pairings against two lines with a 40 goal scorer on them. We'd have the offense, the defense, and the goaltending to make a run this year, as well as next year. Two legitimate shots at Lord Stanley is worth A LOT to a front office.
This is what I'm thinking of and making me want to pull the trigger for Nash. Plus I don't view the cap situation so negatively like most in here. I think we can do this trade (Dubinsky, Kreider, 1st, maybe Sauer or Erixon) and be fine.

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02-21-2012, 09:54 AM
  #982
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Would be Rangers of old if they brought in a marquee player and asked him to play out of position. Those didn't work out so well...

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02-21-2012, 09:55 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by JoeRangers View Post
I cant understand why people say this. What has he shown that makes you think he will under perform?
It's not what he (Nash) has done, but rather what Gomez, Drury, Redden, etc. haven't done.

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02-21-2012, 09:56 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by nyranger61494 View Post
Would be Rangers of old if they brought in a marquee player and asked him to play out of position. Those didn't work out so well...
If Nash comes he goes on Richards-Cally's line, and goes to RW with Cally going to LW. Callahan can play either wing.

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02-21-2012, 09:56 AM
  #985
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
I'm really on the fence. The cap implications are scary, but for the rest of this season and next we basically have this team, but essentially swapping in Nash for Dubinsky (if you go by most proposals). This is a damn hard decision. I really think if you swap Nash in for Dubinsky we are clearly the best team in the NHL.
Yeah, and in the end players like Nash are almos never moved, and if you can get one for a "2nd lineer", two "good" prospects (but hardly great, see the normal top 3-5 pick), and a low first -- it's all-time low value for sure.

Nash got into the league and won the Richard trophy as a 19 y/o. And has then admittedly leveled of as his effort has resulted in nothin year after year after year. That don't change that the kid is 6'4, tremendously talented, not just a PF/sniper but complete forward (basically on if a kind in the league today) who is a dream fit with out 1st line C Brad Richards who just happens to need a LW. It's too good to be true all the way.

What else is our cap space for if not to use it on a MALKIN-LIKE-TALENT?????

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02-21-2012, 09:58 AM
  #986
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The cap implications really aren't that scary. Losing Kreider is, at least in my opinion.

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02-21-2012, 09:58 AM
  #987
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Guys... Rick Nash is a left wing. I don't know where you're hearing this stuff. He plays both wings but i've seen him play left more than right.

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02-21-2012, 09:58 AM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
You'd have to think there would be an amnesty buyout period once a new CBA is reached.

Truth be told, I'm not so worried about the cap implications. If Sather, Clarke and Gorton are ready to pull the trigger on Nash, then they have a plan in place. The mantra has been "stay the course" but as we've seen this year, the team appears to have found a shortcut along the way, and now we've found ourselves much closer to the "destination" than most thought we would be to start the year. If the organization sees Nash as an extra motor to get us to the promised land, then maybe jettisoning a couple assets isn't as tough to stomach for them as it is for us. A lot of us have an attachment to these players, the guys running the show are paid to not form attachments.

What really rubs me the wrong way is the fact that so many people write Nash off as a player, despite the fact that I'd wager that the majority of them saw Nash play for the first time all season on Sunday night. Nash is what we all hope Kreider could be. A huge body with a laser of a shot and great wheels. Nash has better instincts and softer hands, but Kreider has the edge in speed. Am I advocating including Kreider in a trade? Not at all, but I am saying that people need to appreciate just how special of a player Nash is. The outrage over trading top prospects or key roster players is understandable, but the criticisms over Nash's talent are ridiculous. I keep seeing "He's a 60 point player!" but none of those people seem to acknowledge that Nash has as many 40 goal seasons as Gaborik does. Gabby's career highs are 42,42,38. Nash's are 41,40,38. This guy is a top echelon talent.

Adding Nash, in the right deal of course, makes us a tremendous threat for The Cup. Not many teams can match up two defensive pairings against two lines with a 40 goal scorer on them. We'd have the offense, the defense, and the goaltending to make a run this year, as well as next year. Two legitimate shots at Lord Stanley is worth A LOT to a front office.
+100

Kreider may end up being what Nash is...

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02-21-2012, 09:59 AM
  #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
You'd have to think there would be an amnesty buyout period once a new CBA is reached.

Truth be told, I'm not so worried about the cap implications. If Sather, Clarke and Gorton are ready to pull the trigger on Nash, then they have a plan in place. The mantra has been "stay the course" but as we've seen this year, the team appears to have found a shortcut along the way, and now we've found ourselves much closer to the "destination" than most thought we would be to start the year. If the organization sees Nash as an extra motor to get us to the promised land, then maybe jettisoning a couple assets isn't as tough to stomach for them as it is for us. A lot of us have an attachment to these players, the guys running the show are paid to not form attachments.

What really rubs me the wrong way is the fact that so many people write Nash off as a player, despite the fact that I'd wager that the majority of them saw Nash play for the first time all season on Sunday night. Nash is what we all hope Kreider could be. A huge body with a laser of a shot and great wheels. Nash has better instincts and softer hands, but Kreider has the edge in speed. Am I advocating including Kreider in a trade? Not at all, but I am saying that people need to appreciate just how special of a player Nash is. The outrage over trading top prospects or key roster players is understandable, but the criticisms over Nash's talent are ridiculous. I keep seeing "He's a 60 point player!" but none of those people seem to acknowledge that Nash has as many 40 goal seasons as Gaborik does. Gabby's career highs are 42,42,38. Nash's are 41,40,38. This guy is a top echelon talent.

Adding Nash, in the right deal of course, makes us a tremendous threat for The Cup. Not many teams can match up two defensive pairings against two lines with a 40 goal scorer on them. We'd have the offense, the defense, and the goaltending to make a run this year, as well as next year. Two legitimate shots at Lord Stanley is worth A LOT to a front office.
Great version of the "other" side of the argument. You have an all world goalie in his prime, uninjured at the top of his game. There will be sentiment in closed meeetings that say ("We have to go for it NOW!) There has to be a side in management that says we may very well not get this close again and goal scoring wingers are not flooding the Ranger pipeline as is.

In the end it will come down to price. The Rangers have the max they are willing to go.

We'll find out shortly what that max may be or perhaps would have been.

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02-21-2012, 10:02 AM
  #990
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All the Nash hype and rumors makes me appreciate trading deadline stuff. It certainly is fun to talk about.

I'll never foret when Sundin made all this stuff unbearable to listen to, or even think about.

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02-21-2012, 10:04 AM
  #991
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
The cap implications really aren't that scary. Losing Kreider is, at least in my opinion.
Not for Rick Nash. We can only hope, HOPE, Kreider comes close to a Nash, let alone become a Nash-type player. I understand this is hockey's future but kids/prospects are wayyy overvalued.

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02-21-2012, 10:04 AM
  #992
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Well it was Richards rumors last year and Kovalchuk the year before, we certainly don't have many dull deadlines in terms of rumored moves.

I can't imagine that Atlanta was too pleased that every Kovalchuk deal we offered included Wade Redden, though.

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02-21-2012, 10:05 AM
  #993
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
All the Nash hype and rumors makes me appreciate trading deadline stuff. It certainly is fun to talk about.

I'll never foret when Sundin made all this stuff unbearable to listen to, or even think about.
Yep. That was painful.

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02-21-2012, 10:06 AM
  #994
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Monday at 3pm

I believe
Can't get here soon enough.

The more I look at this, the less I like the idea of this trade.

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02-21-2012, 10:06 AM
  #995
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It's not what he (Nash) has done, but rather what Gomez, Drury, Redden, etc. haven't done.
Those guys were UFA's that were signed for way too much money and didnt under perform so much as too much was expected from them. Rangers signed Gomez thinking he would be the player he was when scored 30 goals and 80 points and not the the player that averaged the exact numbers he put up for the Rangers. Pretty much the same thing with Drury. His first 2 seasons here he put up basically what his career average was. Rangers were expecting him to be the 37 goal guy he was the season before he came here. Redden was a terrible signing that pretty much every Ranger fan knew was gonna be a disaster. His numbers already started slipping the 2 seasons before he got here.

Nash is being brought in to be the player that he has been for his entire career. A 35 goal 65 point winger, thats it. Hes not being brought in to be a 40 goal 40 assist guy

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02-21-2012, 10:08 AM
  #996
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
You'd have to think there would be an amnesty buyout period once a new CBA is reached.

Truth be told, I'm not so worried about the cap implications. If Sather, Clarke and Gorton are ready to pull the trigger on Nash, then they have a plan in place. The mantra has been "stay the course" but as we've seen this year, the team appears to have found a shortcut along the way, and now we've found ourselves much closer to the "destination" than most thought we would be to start the year. If the organization sees Nash as an extra motor to get us to the promised land, then maybe jettisoning a couple assets isn't as tough to stomach for them as it is for us. A lot of us have an attachment to these players, the guys running the show are paid to not form attachments.

What really rubs me the wrong way is the fact that so many people write Nash off as a player, despite the fact that I'd wager that the majority of them saw Nash play for the first time all season on Sunday night. Nash is what we all hope Kreider could be. A huge body with a laser of a shot and great wheels. Nash has better instincts and softer hands, but Kreider has the edge in speed. Am I advocating including Kreider in a trade? Not at all, but I am saying that people need to appreciate just how special of a player Nash is. The outrage over trading top prospects or key roster players is understandable, but the criticisms over Nash's talent are ridiculous. I keep seeing "He's a 60 point player!" but none of those people seem to acknowledge that Nash has as many 40 goal seasons as Gaborik does. Gabby's career highs are 42,42,38. Nash's are 41,40,38. This guy is a top echelon talent.

Adding Nash, in the right deal of course, makes us a tremendous threat for The Cup. Not many teams can match up two defensive pairings against two lines with a 40 goal scorer on them. We'd have the offense, the defense, and the goaltending to make a run this year, as well as next year. Two legitimate shots at Lord Stanley is worth A LOT to a front office.
AMEN!

It's vert frustrating to see like "Selanne would produce as much without the cap hit". That's like comparing Dougie Weight to Evgeny Malkin.

Nash is a Malkin/Kovalchuk type of talent who blows someone like Marian Hossa or Dany Heatly away in terms of RAW ABILITY. But because he has been hidden away in CBJ, people talk about him like he is Ryan Malone II lol.

Admittedly, indications are that Nash i) has not taken perfect care of himself in CBJ and ii) just don't seem to have given 110% the last while. Sure. He has played for a horribly managed team and every year, after a month or two, it's been obvious that no matter what -- Nash won't be able to alone carry the team. No player could alone carry a team. And he has not had the personality to build a successful franchise of CBJ. For sure.

But, what would he become in NY next to BR sitting besides Ryan Callahan on the bench after evey shift? After being coached by Torts for 2-3 years?

Cause that's what matters.

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02-21-2012, 10:09 AM
  #997
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Then he's better off holding onto Nash..
Why? To continue wasting money and Nash talent? CBJ needs o rebuild. Therefore they must trade Nash away. No one rebuilds around 7 million player, it never works. If Howson holds to Nash till summer he will simply get less as desperation on some teams will subside.

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02-21-2012, 10:09 AM
  #998
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The absolute furthest I'd go for Nash is:

Dubinsky OR Anisimov, any 2 prospects in the system they want, and a 1st. Thats it.

Including one of our current top 4 defensemen is a non-starter and I'd imagine that will likely be the deal breaker. Erixon is a ways away, McIlrath is even longer away, and who knows when Sauer comes back? The backline depth is a fragile thing right now and I wouldnt move MDZ, McD, Girardi, or Staal in many packages at all because of it. Certainly not in a package that takes on Nash's bloated contract and doesnt return a D-man.

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02-21-2012, 10:10 AM
  #999
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Those guys were UFA's that were signed for way too much money and didnt under perform so much as too much was expected from them. Rangers signed Gomez thinking he would be the player he was when scored 30 goals and 80 points and not the the player that averaged the exact numbers he put up for the Rangers. Pretty much the same thing with Drury. His first 2 seasons here he put up basically what his career average was. Rangers were expecting him to be the 37 goal guy he was the season before he came here. Drury was a terrible signing that pretty much every Ranger fan knew was gonna be a disaster. His numbers already started slipping the 2 seasons before he got here.

Nash is being brought in to be the player that he has been for his entire career. A 35 goal 65 point winger, thats it. Hes not being brought in to be a 40 goal 40 assist guy
I agree 100%. I'm just letting you know the line of thinking for the people who think Nash would be a bust.

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02-21-2012, 10:10 AM
  #1000
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No, his argument is that Sather sees an extended work stoppage coming and has no idea what's coming out on the other side.
That's a pretty poor argument.

The environment in the NHL is nothing like the environment that existed as many as 5 years before the last lockout. IMO, the likelihood of a work stoppage is so remote that it's foolish make it the foundation of case that throws caution to the wind in terms of fiscal responsibility.

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