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Nash-ty Rumors Part IV: The Longest Week

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Old
02-21-2012, 11:55 AM
  #51
JoeRangers
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Originally Posted by pwoz View Post
Nash would be a huge bust and don't forget his insane cap hit. This team is the best in the East and has plenty of firepower. Nash has never done anything.. 4 games of playoff experience.. lol and the price to get him is crazy.

Slats should have gone for Kubina if anything at all.
This argument drives me nuts. Its worse than the people who say he will come here and put up career numbers because he will be playing with better players. What makes you think he will be a huge bust?

You wanna argue about his cap hit or that you think the Rangers will have to give up too much to get him thats fine. I hate the stupid well look at what all the other big names have done for this team in the past. Yeah look at them, for the most part they came here and did the same things they have in their career. The problem is most of the time they are paid to be a player they arent (Drury,Gomez, etc). Take a look at the big names that have been brought in for the most part they come here and put up the same numbers they have averaged in their careers. Thats what Nash is expected to do, come in and put up 35 goals and 65 points.

BTW Nash hasnt done anything? He's scored 278 goals in his career and hes still only 27. This team needs a goal scorer.

Man I'm not even 100% for getting Nash I just cant stand people saying stupid things

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02-21-2012, 11:56 AM
  #52
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More like he's being paid like Gaborik, Iginla, Heatley, or Vanek. He's easily on the same level as those players in terms of talent. Columbus paid a premium for him to make him their "franchise talent" but have failed to assemble a competent team around him. Comparing his contract to Crosby's is pointless.
Here's my beliefs about this whole situation...I am not opposed to dealing for Nash, but, there are no guarantees that he comes in and immediately lifts this team to another level right away. The salary cap connatations are being somewhat overblown, as I believe that Sather, Gorton and Clark would not be venturing down this path if they didn't believe that they could make it work. However, given that Nash has supposedly only agreed to five teams that he'll approve a trade to, and that at least two of those teams, Boston and Philly are not willing to meet Columbus' price, there is NO reason to overpay for Nash in this situation. Players better than Nash have been dealt for much less than what many of the pro-Nash crowd have been suggesting. And, while each situation, such as the deals for Kovalchuk and Hossa, have specific characteristics to why they were dealt and what the price was paid to acquire them, Nash's situation also has limiting factors as to what the price should be. Columbus ownership began this process, and the market for Nash was limited right from the start. The rest of the league is not bidding against the Rangers, so therefore, it doesn't matter if someone like Edmonton or Florida could give up a better package than the Rangers. That offer has no bearing on what the value of Nash is. Columbus made the calculated decision to overpay their franchise player in order to keep him there. Fine. But, now that they've made the determination that they can just as easily suck without him, as they can with him, that doesn't mean the Rangers have to bail them out of the clusterF they've created. Rob Blake, one of the best D-man in his era, brought back the equivalent of Dubi, Sauer and a #1 pick, and the Avs even got back Steven Reinprecht in the deal. Columbus has decided they want a reboot, and they're looking for someone to help them out. Dubinsky, Erixon and a #1 pick is fair value, given that Nash has only five teams his willing to move to. Columbus wants to wait until the summer? I'm not sure how that changes the number of teams Nash is willing to approve a trade to. Columbus started this process, and, my feeling is that they have to finish it with Nash in another city, or this whole thing ends up in a disaster.

Oh, and supposedly the Ble Jackets wanted Couturier from Philly? They could have had him if they didn't make the deal for Jeff Carter. Incompetent franchise.

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Old
02-21-2012, 11:59 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by FATCHAMALA11 View Post
Is it possible to have CBJ pay for part of Nash's salary if we got him via trade, or does the CBA not allow that? Say if they paid like 1.8-2.0 million of it per season. I really don't follow the details of the CBA, because frankly its boring.
I don't think they can do that, but they're going to be taking back Dubinsky. In the end it's like signing him for $3.6 million.

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02-21-2012, 12:01 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by JoeRangers View Post
This argument drives me nuts. Its worse than the people who say he will come here and put up career numbers because he will be playing with better players. What makes you think he will be a huge bust?

You wanna argue about his cap hit or that you think the Rangers will have to give up too much to get him thats fine. I hate the stupid well look at what all the other big names have done for this team in the past. Yeah look at them, for the most part they came here and did the same things they have in their career. The problem is most of the time they are paid to be a player they arent (Drury,Gomez, etc). Take a look at the big names that have been brought in for the most part they come here and put up the same numbers they have averaged in their careers. Thats what Nash is expected to do, come in and put up 35 goals and 65 points.

BTW Nash hasnt done anything? He's scored 278 goals in his career and hes still only 27. This team needs a goal scorer.

Man I'm not even 100% for getting Nash I just cant stand people saying stupid things
It's a fair argument, only in the sense that not every player can play in this city. And, while we have no idea of how Nash will actually perform, if you asked me if which is more likely to happen, that Nash will exceed expectations, or not live up to them, past history tells me the safer choice would be the latter option.

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02-21-2012, 12:01 PM
  #55
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I don't think they can do that, but they're going to be taking back Dubinsky. In the end it's like signing him for $3.6 million.
My concern is not about that...Dubi will go back, but we need to resign our d-men...MDZ, Mcdonaugh...I am not losing those two for Rick Nash...

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02-21-2012, 12:01 PM
  #56
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Nothing being guaranteed is among the weakest of reasons used by fans. Fact is the chances of winning it all with Nash is significantly greater than without. If moves were only made when there is a guarantee, the roster would be empty.
It depends who on the roster is going back the other way. If you lose Anisimov AND Dubinsky, I think you're left with a depth problem. If you lose a defenseman and Sauer never returns, Bickel or Woywitka are in your playoff top 6.

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02-21-2012, 12:07 PM
  #57
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Kreider is not Grachev. Kreider is Stepan and McDonagh. Grachev was an enigma. Its not surprising people are down on Kreider. They're also the same people who didn't McDonagh was very good if Montreal traded him for Gomez. I remember touting McD here and he didn't play well against North Dakota. The game was on TV and someone cracked McD isn't a front line D. Is he a front line D now? Two years later. Stepan wasn't ready for the NHL. Same people who wanted to chuck DZ out the door. Girardi sucked too. Everyone has their opinions. I like Kreider. He is going to a very good NHL player just like the Badger boys. Would you Step or McD straight up for Nash? I wouldn't.

The Rangers brass especially Gorton and Clark love Kreider.

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02-21-2012, 12:08 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Not unless Sather gives up one of his current top 4 defensemen. And he wont.

Could you imagine how embarassing it would be for Columbus if the centerpiece roster player in a deal for Rick Nash was Brandon Dubinsky and his 6 goals?
It's a good thing that GM's know the value of a player is not based on that players current season but rather based on that players career.

Dubi is more thna a 6 goal scoring forward. Just as much as Nash is more than 58 point player

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Old
02-21-2012, 12:08 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by poeman View Post
$7.8 million per until 2018

Thank you.

Nash isnt a final piece. We dont even know if we need a final piece. Everybody is acting like our offense needs a boost, ignoring the fact that a hot goaltender and solid defense gets you deep into the playoffs.

Stop the insanity, please. How friggin greedy can a franchise and/or fan base get?

Nash doesnt guarantee anything. Nothing. The way the NHL postseason has worked historically tells you that adding a premier high-profile scorer at the deadline doesnt guarantee a Cup.

All it might guarantee is a top seed. Players like Nash get neutralized in the playoffs every year. Heck, two lethal top lines get stymied come playoff time.

The 1996 Pens, just as an example, were loaded with hall of fame firepower, and look who beat them -- a friggin expansion team with only guy scoring 30 goals (in 1996, that was a big deal)

I love the way this team is built. They need to add a faceoff guy and a real battle-tested d-man. As much as i complain, I am overly impressed with the job the FO has done by going against the grain and building a solid foundation for not just this year, but the next decade.

Lastly, look at all the upcoming UFA's. Nash doesnt stand alone atop the highest peak. In this day and age, players like him are available on a yearly basis

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02-21-2012, 12:09 PM
  #60
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I agree.

If the for-Nash crowd is playing the "if" game, then I want to play too.
Well let's be real here. It's all an "if" game at this point. However, I just get a little tired of seeing the same reasoning for the anti-player acquisition crowd every time a player comes on the market.

- "What if he caves to the NY pressure?"
- "What if he can't replicate here what he did there?"
- "He's just not that good! He's never led his team anywhere!"

Nothing is a guarantee, but it's far more likely he comes to NY and continues his 35-40 goal scoring ways or improves, than it is that he caves to the tremendous pressure of being on a team that, despite being #1 in the conference, can't even get a back-page on any of the local news papers.

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02-21-2012, 12:09 PM
  #61
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Does Nash actually play the left side or do people slot him in there because they think he does?

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02-21-2012, 12:10 PM
  #62
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It's a fair argument, only in the sense that not every player can play in this city. And, while we have no idea of how Nash will actually perform, if you asked me if which is more likely to happen, that Nash will exceed expectations, or not live up to them, past history tells me the safer choice would be the latter option.
I dont necessarily buy the not every player can play in this city argument. I think that for the most part those players have had unrealistic expectations put on them and when they dont meet them they are considered a bust. When in reality for the most part they do what they always have. Nash isnt expected to come in here and be something hes not. Hes expected to come in here and do what hes done his whole career. Drury and Gomez are considered 2 of the biggest busts in this teams history but take a look at what they did when they got here. They did what they had for most of their careers but they had such unrealistic expectations put on them that people thought that they were busts. Sather paid them to be players they werent. Nash isnt being brought in to play like hes being paid, we already know hes over paid by a million or two, hes being brought in to do what hes always done.

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02-21-2012, 12:12 PM
  #63
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Also, I'm starting to come around to the idea of bringing in Nash but one thing still bugs me. Is he a big game player? He only has 4 games of playoff experience. We don't need an 8M dollar player who doesn't show up in the playoffs.

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Old
02-21-2012, 12:13 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
So many hearts will be broken if Nash doesn't become a Ranger. Conversely so many dreams will be fulfilled if Kreider stays with the Rangers. I cannot wait to get on these boards and see all the reactions if Nash is/is not traded here.
Either way we all know the HFboards will surely be down at that time.

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02-21-2012, 12:13 PM
  #65
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Does Nash actually play the left side or do people slot him in there because they think he does?
he does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
It depends who on the roster is going back the other way. If you lose Anisimov AND Dubinsky, I think you're left with a depth problem. If you lose a defenseman and Sauer never returns, Bickel or Woywitka are in your playoff top 6.
I'm operating under the assumption that Dubinsky will be the only roster player moved. I wouldn't include McDonagh or Del Zotto. Where did all this Dubinsky + Anisimov talk generate anyways?

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02-21-2012, 12:13 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by JoeRangers View Post
This argument drives me nuts. Its worse than the people who say he will come here and put up career numbers because he will be playing with better players. What makes you think he will be a huge bust?

You wanna argue about his cap hit or that you think the Rangers will have to give up too much to get him thats fine. I hate the stupid well look at what all the other big names have done for this team in the past. Yeah look at them, for the most part they came here and did the same things they have in their career. The problem is most of the time they are paid to be a player they arent (Drury,Gomez, etc). Take a look at the big names that have been brought in for the most part they come here and put up the same numbers they have averaged in their careers. Thats what Nash is expected to do, come in and put up 35 goals and 65 points.

BTW Nash hasnt done anything? He's scored 278 goals in his career and hes still only 27. This team needs a goal scorer.

Man I'm not even 100% for getting Nash I just cant stand people saying stupid things
As against trading for Nash, I agree.

It's not Nash's fault he's been playing on bad teams. You can't expect one forward to carry a bunch of scrubs to the playoffs.

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Old
02-21-2012, 12:15 PM
  #67
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Does Nash actually play the left side or do people slot him in there because they think he does?
http://bluejackets.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8470041

Official team website, and latest THN depth chart list him as a RW.

He scored his goal at RW yesterday.

He can play both, but I consider him a RW because every time I watched him play the last three seasons, he lines up on the right side.

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02-21-2012, 12:15 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Kreider is not Grachev. Kreider is Stepan and McDonagh. Grachev was an enigma. Its not surprising people are down on Kreider. They're also the same people who didn't McDonagh was very good if Montreal traded him for Gomez. I remember touting McD here and he didn't play well against North Dakota. The game was on TV and someone cracked McD isn't a front line D. Is he a front line D now? Two years later. Stepan wasn't ready for the NHL. Same people who wanted to chuck DZ out the door. Girardi sucked too. Everyone has their opinions. I like Kreider. He is going to a very good NHL player just like the Badger boys. Would you Step or McD straight up for Nash? I wouldn't.

The Rangers brass especially Gorton and Clark love Kreider.
Very well said. As Boyler87 has been quick to point out, if you can get 20+ goal production from Kreider on his ELC, which is what the Rangers believe he can deliver, that is invaluable in the salary cap era. Yes, there are a few in the pro-Kreider crowd that have gone overboard, but, as we've seen this year, nobody is willing to part with Stepan, MDZ or McD. Kreider could very well reach that stage within the next year or so.

And, besides, there's only one GM in recent memory that's given up his franchise's best prospect for a star player, and that's Dean Lombardi when he gave up Brayden Schenn for Mike Richards, which speaks more about the desperation of Lombardi's situation than it does Richards' value as a player.

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02-21-2012, 12:16 PM
  #69
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Also, I'm starting to come around to the idea of bringing in Nash but one thing still bugs me. Is he a big game player? He only has 4 games of playoff experience. We don't need an 8M dollar player who doesn't show up in the playoffs.
How do we know anyone will show up? How do we know AA, Stepan, Hagelin, McD, MDZ, Stralman etc will show up?

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02-21-2012, 12:20 PM
  #70
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Everybody is acting like our offense needs a boost, ignoring the fact that a hot goaltender and solid defense gets you deep into the playoffs.

It will need a boost.

You need to score goals last time I checked in order to win games.

The question here is, Does having Rick Nash improve our team?

The answer is yes.

Only at the expense of getting rid of Dubi, and prospects not named Kreider.

You do it.

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Old
02-21-2012, 12:21 PM
  #71
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I'm operating under the assumption that Dubinsky will be the only roster player moved. I wouldn't include McDonagh or Del Zotto. Where did all this Dubinsky + Anisimov talk generate anyways?
There was quote in one of these threads about Howson wanting roster players that he could put on the ice immediately. Most of the other rumored offers have been for players who are currently in the NHL with an unknown "plus" or pick.

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02-21-2012, 12:21 PM
  #72
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You know this all could be an elaborate scheme by Howson with Sather's help to drive up the price of Nash.

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02-21-2012, 12:23 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Nothing is a guarantee, but it's far more likely he comes to NY and continues his 35-40 goal scoring ways or improves, than it is that he caves to the tremendous pressure of being on a team that, despite being #1 in the conference, can't even get a back-page on any of the local news papers.
Really? Why is that? Has every FA the Rangers have signed played to/above his career numbers and expectations?

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02-21-2012, 12:24 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Apparently it's OK to speculate about trade proposals for Nash but not about the cap or new CBA?
Because the people doing this are excited by Nash but they don't want to face the reality of the cap hit. If Nash cost 5m per year I'd be all over it. But not at 7.8m. People don't want to have to deal with that. They see the name and the goals and they are willing to sacrifice everything for the sexy name. A bunch of posters here are like Sather pre-lockout.

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02-21-2012, 12:25 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
There was quote in one of these threads about Howson wanting roster players that he could put on the ice immediately. Most of the other rumored offers have been for players who are currently in the NHL with an unknown "plus" or pick.
Do you mean rumored offer from other teams, or the Rangers?

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