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Nash-ty Rumors Part IV: The Longest Week

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02-21-2012, 02:17 PM
  #201
Poozer
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Question (if it has been addressed, I apologize, I'm not searching through all of the threads to look).

I can understand the desire not to breakup our team or "mortgage" the future. But in terms of roster players right now, if we managed to swap Dubi & Wolski for Nash, we would undoubtedly be a better team right now.

But the real question is looking toward the future... and in that regard, Nash, barring injury, will still be an extremely valuable player, I see no reason that we cannot make a deal right now and perhaps get even better return for him this summer, regardless of how the season ends up.

So have we considered that he could still be considered a rental and not a permanent roster player? We would almost certainly be able to trade him for a player/top prospect and a 1st at the draft.

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02-21-2012, 02:18 PM
  #202
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Apart from any discussions of trade value and salary caps and whatever, I would just feel really lousy seeing Dubinsky get yanked off a first place team and out of a locker room he fits in with so well and shipped to Columbus. It's a business and all, but I mean, dang.

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02-21-2012, 02:20 PM
  #203
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I would do Dubi, Erixon, Wolski, Zuccarello. I believe the BJs had scouts at a Whale game recently. They must have been checking out Erixon and/or Zuccs. I don't want to deal Erixon but our strength is in our defensive depth.

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02-21-2012, 02:20 PM
  #204
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Terrible deal. Tyutin has a worse contract to than Nash. And he is nowhere near the talent level of staal.
For what Tyutin provides, $3.425 million isn't that bad.

He's a solid 2nd pairing guy.

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02-21-2012, 02:21 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poozer View Post
Question (if it has been addressed, I apologize, I'm not searching through all of the threads to look).

I can understand the desire not to breakup our team or "mortgage" the future. But in terms of roster players right now, if we managed to swap Dubi & Wolski for Nash, we would undoubtedly be a better team right now.

But the real question is looking toward the future... and in that regard, Nash, barring injury, will still be an extremely valuable player, I see no reason that we cannot make a deal right now and perhaps get even better return for him this summer, regardless of how the season ends up.

So have we considered that he could still be considered a rental and not a permanent roster player? We would almost certainly be able to trade him for a player/top prospect and a 1st at the draft.
I never thought of that and I'm not sure what the answer would be. Creative thinking though. Treat Nash as a rental, so we're essentially trading Dubi for a first and a prospect. Interesting.

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02-21-2012, 02:23 PM
  #206
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The acquisition price and Nash's cap hit scares me a lot. I hope that they stay far away from him. He is not worth the price of admission, and tearing apart the rebuild that has brought us in to President trophy discussion would be ludicrous. We have all that we need, and the possibility of Parise (longshot I know) in the offseason for a smaller cap hit would make this move look stupid. If it is not broken, do not try to fix it imo

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02-21-2012, 02:24 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Sky Valley View Post
Apart from any discussions of trade value and salary caps and whatever, I would just feel really lousy seeing Dubinsky get yanked off a first place team and out of a locker room he fits in with so well and shipped to Columbus. It's a business and all, but I mean, dang.
Dubi has nine lives on this team. We've been waiting for him to break out for years now. Fact of the matter is, at his best, he is half the player Nash is offensively.

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02-21-2012, 02:24 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by NYRangers16 View Post
If we were talking Stamkos I'd say hell yes bring it on. He's worth it in production and in cap cost. But Nash is nowhere close to Stamkos.
.
I don't mind to get Stamkos, but he is not available. Nash is better than Stamkos. In fact, Nash is better than anyone to fit our needs. Stamkos just scores more. We need upgrade offensively, which is more than scoring. Nash is a complete PF package, which Stamkos is not. At this point in time I'd take him over Ovechkin.

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02-21-2012, 02:24 PM
  #209
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Come on guys. Wolski and Zuccarello-Assen? Seriously?

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02-21-2012, 02:26 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by NYR1967 View Post
I never thought of that and I'm not sure what the answer would be. Creative thinking though. Treat Nash as a rental, so we're essentially trading Dubi for a first and a prospect. Interesting.
Well, I'm not sure we'd gain a 1st out of it, but we might move up in the 1st round. I imagine we would break even on a top prospect. So it would come down to something like you get Nash as a rental for the playoff run, and in the long run you have done something like swapping Dubi for JVR or Schenn or Johnson, [insert other team's Nash proposals here] and a better first round pick.

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02-21-2012, 02:26 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Come on guys. Wolski and Zuccarello-Assen? Seriously?
Did Kovalchuk, Thornton, Heatley, etc. get anybody better?

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02-21-2012, 02:27 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I don't mind to get Stamkos, but he is not available. Nash is better than Stamkos. In fact, Nash is better than anyone to fit our needs. Stamkos just scores more. We need upgrade offensively, which is more than scoring. Nash is a complete PF package, which Stamkos is not. At this point in time I'd take him over Ovechkin.
Nash was even out there killing penalties against us. He can do it all which fits into the mold of this team very well.

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02-21-2012, 02:27 PM
  #213
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That's not really my point though. The point is that just because a guy is earning big money, it doesn't mean he's destined to fail in NY.
I think this is an important point.

Ive seen several posters making it a point to say "NO!!!! dont do it, when does a big-name acquisition ever work out in NY?!!!!"

Well, 2 things:

1. A ton of the big names brought in over the last 15 years or so could be foreseen as a failure the moment they were brought over. Whether it be age, injury history, or simply overpaying for player who werent that good - it was always something. Nash's talent and young age are undeniable. Theres plenty to worry about but, in this case, superstition isn't on the list.

2. Whether you like it or not, the Rangers are going to need to build the top of their lineup through free agency. They did it with Drury/Gomez/Redden and wiffed badly. Gaborik and Richards have worked out better. Where the Rangers draft, you cant be expecting to fill these holes through the system. It sure seems like the organizational philosophy it to build a strong core from the goal outward, and fill in the top-end talent through free agency/trades

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02-21-2012, 02:28 PM
  #214
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Jagr did. The 3 season he was here were hands and feet better than in Washington. If I am not mistaken Straka and Nylander as well put up career numbers.

Rozsival did as well. He was let go by Pitt only to become our #1 defenseman for 5 years.

Straka's best years were in Pit, although he had some good seasons here. Jagr as well had his best years in Pit.

Nylander is one I had not thought of, and a great example.

One thing to point out about all of those players is they came here after the lockout, except for Jagr who was traded here the deadline before the lockout. I personally think that has a lot to do with their successes here, they were starting their own group for the most part, not integrating with a new one.

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02-21-2012, 02:28 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
For what Tyutin provides, $3.425 million isn't that bad.

He's a solid 2nd pairing guy.
3.425 would be very good. 4.5 not so much.

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02-21-2012, 02:28 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Vidic15 View Post
Did Kovalchuk, Thornton, Heatley, etc. get anybody better?
Nash is under contract, Kovalchuk at least, was not.

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02-21-2012, 02:28 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Poozer View Post
Well, I'm not sure we'd gain a 1st out of it, but we might move up in the 1st round. I imagine we would break even on a top prospect. So it would come down to something like you get Nash as a rental for the playoff run, and in the long run you have done something like swapping Dubi for JVR or Schenn or Johnson, [insert other team's Nash proposals here] and a better first round pick.
Yes - that is what I meant. Assuming the Rangers could get Nash for something like Dubi, Miller and a first, and then we flip Nash at the draft for a roster player, a better first and a prospect - someone hopefully somewhat comparable to Miller.

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02-21-2012, 02:28 PM
  #218
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I'm on the fence with getting Nash but the people advocating getting Nash arent saying they'd give up MDZ or McD. I would agree that they are crazy if they were but most are only willing to give up Duby off of the current roster



I honestly believe that if Sather cant pull off a steal on this one he isnt going to make the deal. I dont think hes going to part with anything he isnt comfortable parting with. I dont think he and his guys are letting McD or MDZ go anywhere and add Kreider to that list too. If theres one thing I trust Sather with its trading.
I hate Nash's cap hit...I mean if it's Dubi and some prospects not named Kreider we have the depth to do it...I just think Nash's cap hit is awful and it's a huge risk. I see no reason to do that now...we have a chance to win a cup this year and be even better next year.

Imagine if we don't trade Dubi and he dominates in the playoffs and helps lead us to a cup.

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02-21-2012, 02:29 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Nash was even out there killing penalties against us. He can do it all which fits into the mold of this team very well.
Two words: Hitchcock's product.

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02-21-2012, 02:29 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Vidic15 View Post
Did Kovalchuk, Thornton, Heatley, etc. get anybody better?
Or Richards when he was traded from Tampa? People over estimate what it would take to get a player like this. Granted, Wolski and MZA as a package is just being a bit to greedy, but The value won't be what the general trade board thinks it would be, I.E. Dubi+ McD/MDZ+Kreider + 1st.

There is a medium most of the time with these players and when there is a medium, trades happen.

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02-21-2012, 02:30 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by NYRangers16 View Post
Imagine if we don't trade Dubi and he dominates in the playoffs and helps lead us to a cup.
Imagine if we don't trade Dubi and he sucks in the playoffs. I cannot fathom Dubi being the make it / break it for this team winning a cup.

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02-21-2012, 02:31 PM
  #222
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Yes - that is what I meant. Assuming the Rangers could get Nash for something like Dubi, Miller and a first, and then we flip Nash at the deadline for a roster player, a better first and a prospect - someone hopefully somewhat comparable to Miller.
In case you forget the purpose of hockey organization is NOT to collect prospects for collector's sake.

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02-21-2012, 02:31 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Poozer View Post
Nash is under contract, Kovalchuk at least, was not.
Richards was. The return was Mike Smith, Jeff Halpern and Jussi Jokinen + 4th round pick.

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02-21-2012, 02:33 PM
  #224
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In case you forget the purpose of hockey organization is NOT to collect prospects for collector's sake.
Not advocating anything, just exploring the Op's creative thought. Believe me, I have been against trading for Nash from the get go.

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02-21-2012, 02:34 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
3.425 would be very good. 4.5 not so much.
I can't access capgeek from work, but thsi is the link I got the number from.

http://tsf.waymoresports.thestar.com...layer.cgi?2329

just checked on my phone.

the 3.425 ends this season, the 4.5 starts next year.

Ouch.

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