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Old
02-22-2012, 12:01 AM
  #126
sobrien
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Originally Posted by Jumping View Post
Assumed Pronger would be LTIR.

Also I do not know if I'd want Suter - at 7.5 million for 8 years I think. It is time the Flyers started to develop from within. They did a great job bringing people in as rookies this year.
Pronger is on LTIR now, and we have about 850k cap space. You're giving Grossman a raise, Kubina a discount, which offset. Jagr for the same price is fine. But Nabby will cost us more than you may realize.

I'd still poke around to see what we can get Weber for, but if it's anything ridiculous, go after Suter, and re-sign Grossman. Def keep JvR though

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02-22-2012, 12:11 AM
  #127
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Depending on how much Weber wants we might not have the picks for him...he's a RFA IIRC

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02-22-2012, 01:13 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I just want to point out how awesome JVR-Schenn-JV looked tonight.

Last year at this time, could you imagine having vanRiemsdyk, Schenn, and Voracek together one line?

You would probably say, "That's a line I keep together at all costs."

Well I agree. We need to commit to keeping all of this talent we've accumulated. Giroux, vanRiemsdyk, Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, Simmonds, and Read.

If we do that, I promise our offense will always be among the best if not the best in the NHL.

Best third line in hockey!!

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Old
02-22-2012, 09:20 AM
  #129
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JVR is at his best when he starts throwing his weight around. I do not understand why he does not do it on regular basis. Last night was exactly what he was doing playoffs.

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02-22-2012, 09:32 AM
  #130
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and last night is exactly why you dont mortgage your future this team has 4 lines of skill we have a 4th line with a 17 goal man a top ten rookie who behind claude i think could be the face of this organization for years to come if we ever get decent goal-tending watch out

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02-22-2012, 09:45 AM
  #131
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JVR is at his best when he starts throwing his weight around. I do not understand why he does not do it on regular basis. Last night was exactly what he was doing playoffs.
I would say that he is simply a big game player, like Briere. The playoff crowd/atmosphere is what motivates those kinds of players. It isn't terribly surprising, to me, that they would each be responsible for the two key goals of the Jets game.

I think the Flyers would be insane to move JVR.

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02-22-2012, 09:49 AM
  #132
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Yeah last night was an example of what JVR can bring when he's healthy and motivated. I hope him and Briere continue to ratchet up their games for the playoff push and beyond..

I think we need to keep him and we need to keep our depth on offense not thin it out by getting somebody like Nash. The Rangers fans feel the same way it seems with their chant "We don't want you." Same here!

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02-22-2012, 09:53 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
JVR is at his best when he starts throwing his weight around. I do not understand why he does not do it on regular basis. Last night was exactly what he was doing playoffs.
trade rumors makes you a bit more motivated when you don't want to be traded or leave the team

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02-22-2012, 10:23 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
He was a monster tonight.

No way I trade him.
JVR could have scored three goals in the first period, still a bit rusty coming off the concussion.

Hopefully Homer realizes he should keep him.

With these four lines all producing scoring chances (and goals) and the additions to an already solid D corp, all the Flyers need is for Bryzgalov to continue getting his confidence back and they could cause some damage in the playoffs.

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Old
02-22-2012, 10:28 AM
  #135
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Who needs depth in the playoffs....a player like Nash can never get shutdown...

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Old
02-22-2012, 10:33 AM
  #136
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By the way. I overrate JVR.

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Old
02-22-2012, 11:05 AM
  #137
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I don't think the Flyer should make any more moves. Maybe one that brings in a 4th liner that can kill penatlies, but definitely not a move that requires trading a significant roster player (JVR)

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Old
02-22-2012, 11:13 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
By the way. I overrate JVR.
You do. Listen, I like JVR's skill set, always have (you can go back through my post history). What I don't like is his inconsistency when it comes to the physical part of the game. He has never seemed naturally mean or aggressive enough, and the ephemeral spurts when he flashes that kind of ability don't change my opinion (see: Carter, Jeff). If JVR ever harnesses the nastiness ingredient and makes it part of his overall game CONSISTENTLY, he could be downright unstoppable (see: last year's playoffs). Then again, I maintain that such a mindset and demeanor is intrinsic -- you're either born with it, or you're not. It's not something that just develops over time. We've seen this before with JVR -- he'll have a game like he did last night and then disappear for two weeks. I'd still be very comfortable leveraging his value and potential in a trade for someone like Rick Nash, although that should not be confused with me wanting to run him out of town.

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02-22-2012, 11:38 AM
  #139
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Even I, a JVR basher, have been pleased with him the past 2 games. I'm not getting my hopes up though. The 20 game disappearance is right around the corner!

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Old
02-22-2012, 11:39 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
You do. Listen, I like JVR's skill set, always have (you can go back through my post history). What I don't like is his inconsistency when it comes to the physical part of the game. He has never seemed naturally mean or aggressive enough, and the ephemeral spurts when he flashes that kind of ability don't change my opinion (see: Carter, Jeff). If JVR ever harnesses the nastiness ingredient and makes it part of his overall game CONSISTENTLY, he could be downright unstoppable (see: last year's playoffs). Then again, I maintain that such a mindset and demeanor is intrinsic -- you're either born with it, or you're not. It's not something that just develops over time. We've seen this before with JVR -- he'll have a game like he did last night and then disappear for two weeks. I'd still be very comfortable leveraging his value and potential in a trade for someone like Rick Nash, although that should not be confused with me wanting to run him out of town.
Agree 6000%.

The problem is, that that sort of thing isn't tangible, so it's hard for some people to put any weight into it.

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Old
02-22-2012, 11:46 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
You do. Listen, I like JVR's skill set, always have (you can go back through my post history). What I don't like is his inconsistency when it comes to the physical part of the game. He has never seemed naturally mean or aggressive enough, and the ephemeral spurts when he flashes that kind of ability don't change my opinion (see: Carter, Jeff). If JVR ever harnesses the nastiness ingredient and makes it part of his overall game CONSISTENTLY, he could be downright unstoppable (see: last year's playoffs). Then again, I maintain that such a mindset and demeanor is intrinsic -- you're either born with it, or you're not. It's not something that just develops over time. We've seen this before with JVR -- he'll have a game like he did last night and then disappear for two weeks. I'd still be very comfortable leveraging his value and potential in a trade for someone like Rick Nash, although that should not be confused with me wanting to run him out of town.
Yeah I'm in this camp. I like his skill set and would prefer not to move him, but unless he can play this way consistantly I would definitely move him for a d-man with top pairing potential (probably not for Nash just because of Nash's contract but if he was making 2.5 less a year I would).

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02-22-2012, 11:58 AM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
You do. Listen, I like JVR's skill set, always have (you can go back through my post history). What I don't like is his inconsistency when it comes to the physical part of the game. He has never seemed naturally mean or aggressive enough, and the ephemeral spurts when he flashes that kind of ability don't change my opinion (see: Carter, Jeff). If JVR ever harnesses the nastiness ingredient and makes it part of his overall game CONSISTENTLY, he could be downright unstoppable (see: last year's playoffs). Then again, I maintain that such a mindset and demeanor is intrinsic -- you're either born with it, or you're not. It's not something that just develops over time. We've seen this before with JVR -- he'll have a game like he did last night and then disappear for two weeks. I'd still be very comfortable leveraging his value and potential in a trade for someone like Rick Nash, although that should not be confused with me wanting to run him out of town.
Right on. Although I would be more in to getting a long-term fix on defense if he is being dealt. I've said before that I am willing to trade him, but not pushing to trade him. If someone wants to offer up a young defenseman that will improve the current corps, then I think you have to do it. While JvR's "value" or "ceiling" maybe higher than the player the Flyers ultimately receive in a trade for him, the team need for defense outweighs whatever discrepancy there may be between the "values" of the players traded. Not saying trade him for peanuts, but if this Schenn deal is really in the works, I'd take a good, hard look at it (along with any other similar deal). Same thing with a deal for Nash.

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Old
02-22-2012, 12:01 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
You do. Listen, I like JVR's skill set, always have (you can go back through my post history). What I don't like is his inconsistency when it comes to the physical part of the game. He has never seemed naturally mean or aggressive enough, and the ephemeral spurts when he flashes that kind of ability don't change my opinion (see: Carter, Jeff). If JVR ever harnesses the nastiness ingredient and makes it part of his overall game CONSISTENTLY, he could be downright unstoppable (see: last year's playoffs). Then again, I maintain that such a mindset and demeanor is intrinsic -- you're either born with it, or you're not. It's not something that just develops over time. We've seen this before with JVR -- he'll have a game like he did last night and then disappear for two weeks. I'd still be very comfortable leveraging his value and potential in a trade for someone like Rick Nash, although that should not be confused with me wanting to run him out of town.
Basically, your argument is that JVR will not find consistency because he's not aggressive enough.

I don't buy that players can't be consistent unless they're physically aggressive.

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02-22-2012, 12:23 PM
  #144
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Basically, your argument is that JVR will not find consistency because he's not aggressive enough.

I don't buy that players can't be consistent unless they're physically aggressive.
Players can be consistent unless they're physically aggressive, for sure. JvR, however, needs to be physical aggressive, if he doesn't change his game around. The way he plays the game, he absolutely has to be physical, drive to the net and use his body to power through defenders. So far in his career, he hasn't been able to do so consistently, and I agree with Amateur Hour that he doesn't have that nastiness or mean streak to him. I think he can learn to use his body better/effective enough despite that though.

The most troubling part with JvR for me this season has been that he's been so completely out of the games when he's not producing. I would have hoped to have seen a better overall game from him, so that he was at least dependable defensively even if his offense stuttered.



All of this said though, I sure as hell hope we won't trade JvR unless it's a top-pairing dman coming our way. He is still young, power forwards tend to take a few years to learn the ropes and mature into their bodies on the NHL level. I still hope that JvR will be consistent enough in a few years to make sure that he's counted among the power forwards without there being any argument about it.

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Old
02-22-2012, 12:24 PM
  #145
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You can only consistently get "playoff mode" JVR if it is always a "playoff atmosphere".

In the meantime, for most of the regular season, I would expect JVR to get continually better. (injuries aside)

His big games will always be at a higher level, though. He just seems to be that kind of player so far, and it isn't really a question of effort or physicality, but more of an "intangible".

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02-22-2012, 12:28 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by xifentoozlerix View Post
You can only consistently get "playoff mode" JVR if it is always a "playoff atmosphere".

In the meantime, for most of the regular season, I would expect JVR to get continually better. (injuries aside)

His big games will always be at a higher level, though. He just seems to be that kind of player so far, and it isn't really a question of effort or physicality, but more of an "intangible".
That's the kind of player you don't even consider trading.

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02-22-2012, 12:32 PM
  #147
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That's the kind of player you don't even consider trading.
Believe me, ...I dread the thought.

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Old
02-22-2012, 12:37 PM
  #148
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I like JVR's skillset and do not want him traded. I do understand why fans get on him when he disappears and looks disinterested for games. Look no further than Voracek, who registers points at JVR's rate, but always seems to be working his butt off. If JVR played like Voracek does, fans would not be on him.

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02-22-2012, 12:48 PM
  #149
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I like JVR's skillset and do not want him traded. I do understand why fans get on him when he disappears and looks disinterested for games. Look no further than Voracek, who registers points at JVR's rate, but always seems to be working his butt off. If JVR played like Voracek does, fans would not be on him.
I'd take JvR over Voracek every day of the week.

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Old
02-22-2012, 12:56 PM
  #150
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JVR needs to find his fire and he will be great...

Speaking of fire in a skilled player... this video gives me chills and helps me remember just how dominate Forsberg was... a player that had EVERYTHING. IMO he is the best player to play the game... I dont mean that in points or goals.. just a FORCE on the ice that made **** happen on every shift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRtrQ1YrCzw

^ THIS IS PLAYING WITH A FIRE (take notes jeff carter)

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