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Lebrun doesn't think Gauthier will be back as GM

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Old
02-22-2012, 05:29 AM
  #276
AntonCH
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Originally Posted by habcat View Post
To me it's as simple as this. Any Management/Coaching staff that guide the Montreal Canadiens to a bottom 7-8 season should all be fired. Unless they are a new staff that have just taken over from a previous staff that has just been fired, then they need time to get the job done. This team has been an embarrassment to their fans this year. Gainey, Gauthier Cunneyworth should all be gone at the end of the season.
FWIW he came in this year and was only inserted as head coach mid-season as a sacrificial lamb and you Blame that poor guy?
Really?

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02-22-2012, 05:58 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
This is what you are suggesting.

Three years ago around July first. Gauthier is lounging about in his playboy jamies, frolicking with 20 year old blondes he met the night before.

His cell rings.

Gauthier: Allo! Mr Gauthier speaking

Bobsled: Hey Pee-Air, I got a great brainstorm this morning while I was working on my comb-over.

Gauthier: Bon jour, Mr. Bob.

Bobsled: Yeah yeah, bon jour to you too. Wanna hear my great idea? Gionta & Cammy, huh? Huh? And you know what's even better? Gomez between them.

Gauthier: Mr Bob as your Pro Scout and Assistant GM I must advise you that is a foolish and impetuous lineup.

Bobsled: Naw, naw, trust me. It'll work. Go back to doing what you do best. Frolicking.

Gauthier: I must protest, Mr Bob. Those players are soft and small.

Bobsled: But they're fast, Pee-Air, they're fast. We'll burn all our opponents with our blazing speed. Besides I already traded for Gomez and signed Cammy & Gionta. There's nothing you can do about it.

Hangs up. the blonde next to Gauthier sticks her thumb in her mouth and giggles. Gauthier shrugs and smiles at her.

Gauthier: Where were we, Ms June 2008?

hilarious
that is sort of how I picture the whole FO

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Old
02-22-2012, 06:36 AM
  #278
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We have the worst home record in the league....we have been shut out in 9 games (we've been getting shut out a lot over the last few years), we're having one of the worst seasons in our history and people think the GM should be retained? This is gold. I guess Howson should keep his job too, huh?

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Old
02-22-2012, 06:55 AM
  #279
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Let's forget what Gauthier did under Gainey. We'll just agree to disagree.

But let's see what he did the summer leading to this season.

Although there were signs last season that this team needed a retool, we took the eventual Stanley Cup winners to overtime in the 7th game. It was the first round of the playoffs but it was still overtime in the 7th game. Haters & defenders of Gauthier can spin that any way they want.

What can't be spinned is what happened in the off season.

He let go of:

Hamrlik
The Wiz
Sopel
Mara
Halpern

He eventually scrambled to replace those people with

Campoli
Kaberle
Diaz
Emelin
Nokie.

Now Diaz & Emelin will turn out to be good NHlers but at the beginning of the year and even at this point they were not and are not good enough to replace The Wiz & Hamrlik.

I agreed The Wiz wanted too much and Hamrlik wanted too long of a term. But with those two gone and with Markov & Gorges coming back from serious injuries, you don't decide to replace those 4 with Diaz & Emelin. Forget about those 4, you don't decide to replace The Wiz & Hamrlik with Diaz & Emelin. It's dumb planning especially when you have Spacek, Weber, a sophomore Subban on defense and Gorges - a player you don't completely trust because you did not give him a long term contract which tells me you were not completely sold on his recovery.

Nokie replacing Halpern was a downgrade - even Gauthier apologists can't justify that one. Granted it wasn't a huge downgrade but enough that it showed in our play.

Sopel & Mara were basically finished THIS year but last year they provided some experience on the blue line. I agree they should have been cut but after cutting them Gauthier should have replaced them with one or two younger versions. He didn't.

So this past summer you have a team that needs to reload but you don't do that. You cut. Why?

There was our season, right there. Couple that with the fact that Gauthier believed the gamble on Gomez was still worth it, did nothing about upgrading the offence and pinned his hopes on a Gomez who couldn't get much worse so by extension had to get better.

So looking back we shouldn't be surprised that the Habs are fighting for top pick. This past summer he should have replaced the outgoing d-men, break in only Emelin and give Diaz time in the A. He should have resolved the offensive problems. Last year we were putrid 5 on 5 but our PP saved us. Gauthier decides to release Muller - the only coach we've had the past few years who understood offence - and replaced him with two Martin clones. Couple that with the fact that Gauthier did not improve the offence but pinned his hopes on G-love and you have a GM who doesn't really make terribly bad trades but reveals himself to have no foresight and no understanding on how to build a winning team.

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Old
02-22-2012, 07:29 AM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
Let's forget what Gauthier did under Gainey. We'll just agree to disagree.

But let's see what he did the summer leading to this season.

Although there were signs last season that this team needed a retool, we took the eventual Stanley Cup winners to overtime in the 7th game. It was the first round of the playoffs but it was still overtime in the 7th game. Haters & defenders of Gauthier can spin that any way they want.

What can't be spinned is what happened in the off season.

He let go of:

Hamrlik
The Wiz
Sopel
Mara
Halpern

He eventually scrambled to replace those people with

Campoli
Kaberle
Diaz
Emelin
Nokie.

Now Diaz & Emelin will turn out to be good NHlers but at the beginning of the year and even at this point they were not and are not good enough to replace The Wiz & Hamrlik.

I agreed The Wiz wanted too much and Hamrlik wanted too long of a term. But with those two gone and with Markov & Gorges coming back from serious injuries, you don't decide to replace those 4 with Diaz & Emelin. Forget about those 4, you don't decide to replace The Wiz & Hamrlik with Diaz & Emelin. It's dumb planning especially when you have Spacek, Weber, a sophomore Subban on defense and Gorges - a player you don't completely trust because you did not give him a long term contract which tells me you were not completely sold on his recovery.

Nokie replacing Halpern was a downgrade - even Gauthier apologists can't justify that one. Granted it wasn't a huge downgrade but enough that it showed in our play.

Sopel & Mara were basically finished THIS year but last year they provided some experience on the blue line. I agree they should have been cut but after cutting them Gauthier should have replaced them with one or two younger versions. He didn't.

So this past summer you have a team that needs to reload but you don't do that. You cut. Why?

There was our season, right there. Couple that with the fact that Gauthier believed the gamble on Gomez was still worth it, did nothing about upgrading the offence and pinned his hopes on a Gomez who couldn't get much worse so by extension had to get better.

So looking back we shouldn't be surprised that the Habs are fighting for top pick. This past summer he should have replaced the outgoing d-men, break in only Emelin and give Diaz time in the A. He should have resolved the offensive problems. Last year we were putrid 5 on 5 but our PP saved us. Gauthier decides to release Muller - the only coach we've had the past few years who understood offence - and replaced him with two Martin clones. Couple that with the fact that Gauthier did not improve the offence but pinned his hopes on G-love and you have a GM who doesn't really make terribly bad trades but reveals himself to have no foresight and no understanding on how to build a winning team.
First, you completely overlook Cole. Letting Wizniewski go was a big part of why we could sign him.

Second, replacing Wiz was supposed to be Markov, whom doctors said last June would be fine(heck he was skating in May and June). Gorges was supposed to replace Hamrlik.

Third, Gauthier didn't "release" Muller, Kirk decided to leave on his own because he wanted to be head coach, not because he was fired. In fact they tried to keep him.

In terms of the off season, the players brought in have been an upgrade on the ones that left. In hindsight with all the injuries we could use Wisniewski, but not at his contract. Cole makes 1 mil less per year and is the more productive player. Campoli was a solid addition but he never got going, getting hurt in the 1st game, when he got back he was in an 8 man rotation for ice time and has never really had a role. Emelin and Diaz are younger, cheaper and better than guys like Sopel and Mara.

What hurt the offense was the general poor play of Cammalleri(which killed the PP) and two injuries to Gionta that forced him to miss 2/3 of the season. even with taht 5 on 5 scoring is actually up.

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Old
02-22-2012, 07:29 AM
  #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
Let's forget what Gauthier did under Gainey. We'll just agree to disagree.

But let's see what he did the summer leading to this season.

Although there were signs last season that this team needed a retool, we took the eventual Stanley Cup winners to overtime in the 7th game. It was the first round of the playoffs but it was still overtime in the 7th game. Haters & defenders of Gauthier can spin that any way they want.

What can't be spinned is what happened in the off season.

He let go of:

Hamrlik
The Wiz
Sopel
Mara
Halpern

He eventually scrambled to replace those people with

Campoli
Kaberle
Diaz
Emelin
Nokie.

Now Diaz & Emelin will turn out to be good NHlers but at the beginning of the year and even at this point they were not and are not good enough to replace The Wiz & Hamrlik.

I agreed The Wiz wanted too much and Hamrlik wanted too long of a term. But with those two gone and with Markov & Gorges coming back from serious injuries, you don't decide to replace those 4 with Diaz & Emelin. Forget about those 4, you don't decide to replace The Wiz & Hamrlik with Diaz & Emelin. It's dumb planning especially when you have Spacek, Weber, a sophomore Subban on defense and Gorges - a player you don't completely trust because you did not give him a long term contract which tells me you were not completely sold on his recovery.

Nokie replacing Halpern was a downgrade - even Gauthier apologists can't justify that one. Granted it wasn't a huge downgrade but enough that it showed in our play.

Sopel & Mara were basically finished THIS year but last year they provided some experience on the blue line. I agree they should have been cut but after cutting them Gauthier should have replaced them with one or two younger versions. He didn't.

So this past summer you have a team that needs to reload but you don't do that. You cut. Why?

There was our season, right there. Couple that with the fact that Gauthier believed the gamble on Gomez was still worth it, did nothing about upgrading the offence and pinned his hopes on a Gomez who couldn't get much worse so by extension had to get better.

So looking back we shouldn't be surprised that the Habs are fighting for top pick. This past summer he should have replaced the outgoing d-men, break in only Emelin and give Diaz time in the A. He should have resolved the offensive problems. Last year we were putrid 5 on 5 but our PP saved us. Gauthier decides to release Muller - the only coach we've had the past few years who understood offence - and replaced him with two Martin clones. Couple that with the fact that Gauthier did not improve the offence but pinned his hopes on G-love and you have a GM who doesn't really make terribly bad trades but reveals himself to have no foresight and no understanding on how to build a winning team.

Ok so Cole is a downgrade on offence?

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Old
02-22-2012, 07:43 AM
  #282
Habs Icing
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Ok so Cole is a downgrade on offence?
You got a point. i forgot Cole but that only highlights how bad our defence really is. With the addition of Cole and his marvellous play, we're still at the bottom of the standings.

Whoever will manage this team, Gauthier or someone else, they need to address quite a few issues.

Patches DD Cole
***** Pleks Bourque
***** Eller AK
Moen White *****

Gorges Subban
Diaz/Weber *****
Emelin ******

We need a top six forward, a 3rd line winger and a 4th liner. Depending on Markov's status we need 2 maybe only one defenceman.

If the GM could unload Kaberle, Gionta, Gomez, Darche, Campoli, Weber & Nokie, I would seriously go after Parise & Suter in the off season.

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Old
02-22-2012, 07:49 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
You got a point. i forgot Cole but that only highlights how bad our defence really is. With the addition of Cole and his marvellous play, we're still at the bottom of the standings.

Whoever will manage this team, Gauthier or someone else, they need to address quite a few issues.

Patches DD Cole
***** Pleks Bourque
***** Eller AK
Moen White *****

Gorges Subban
Diaz/Weber *****
Emelin ******

We need a top six forward, a 3rd line winger and a 4th liner. Depending on Markov's status we need 2 maybe only one defenceman.

If the GM could unload Kaberle, Gionta, Gomez, Darche, Campoli, Weber & Nokie, I would seriously go after Parise & Suter in the off season.
Before unloading a 25-30 goal guy in Gionta, I'd be sure Parise was signed first.

Gomez is a non issue, he won't be on our cap next year either by trade or waivers.

Cap space is a non issue if we want to be agressive after UFA's.

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Old
02-22-2012, 08:23 AM
  #284
Habs Icing
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Before unloading a 25-30 goal guy in Gionta, I'd be sure Parise was signed first.
Whether we get Parise or we don't, I want to trade Gionta. This year was a sign of things to come with Gionta. I don't see him as 25-30 goal scorer anymore. He's probably a 20 goal scorer and down hill from there. I didn't like the Cammy, Gionta, Gomez era and I'd like to on. With DD and even Pleks on the team, we can't afford to carry a smallish, aging player.

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Old
02-22-2012, 08:37 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Lebrun is a nerd. Who cares waht he says?

The Habs are full of good young players, Gauthier has done a great job.

Why should he be fired because he made the decision to re-sign their best possible option on defence and hope that the doctors were right about when he'd be okay to play?

Seems stupid.
He should be fired from the GM post for a myriad of reasons.

-Markov----- he may have been duped but the contract should have been incentive based. Molson is on the hook for the money because the contract is not insured. If my employee cost me 15+ million he'd be gone.

Coach firings--- coaches get fired, but not like ours were. No respect.

PR fail---- the way Spacek and Gill were traded was disrespectful, players talk and this combined with the coach fiascos will give players pause about playing here. Players want to feel respected, particularly because they are traded like commodities. PG has left a stain on our rep.

Kaberle--- he got decent value for Spacek but now we have another brutal contract. Spacek would already have been traded... probably to philly and we'd have another prospect and 4 million more. Kaberle has not been a positive factor.

All GM's make good and bad moves, and he's made some of both. He got great return for Gill and hopefully we'll get good value for AK and Campoli. The problem for me is confidence, consistency and respect. I have zero confidence that he'll turn this team into a consistent winner. By being so secretive he shows no respect for his coaches and players. I don't think the players have any confidence in his. Everyone wants to win, but everyone also wants respect and people need that from their boss.

Make him a consultant or head of professional scouting, he's perfectly suited for those jobs and would be one of the best in the league IMO. He's not a good GM.

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Old
02-22-2012, 08:49 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
He should be fired from the GM post for a myriad of reasons.

-Markov----- he may have been duped but the contract should have been incentive based. Molson is on the hook for the money because the contract is not insured. If my employee cost me 15+ million he'd be gone.

Coach firings--- coaches get fired, but not like ours were. No respect.

PR fail---- the way Spacek and Gill were traded was disrespectful, players talk and this combined with the coach fiascos will give players pause about playing here. Players want to feel respected, particularly because they are traded like commodities. PG has left a stain on our rep.

Kaberle--- he got decent value for Spacek but now we have another brutal contract. Spacek would already have been traded... probably to philly and we'd have another prospect and 4 million more. Kaberle has not been a positive factor.

All GM's make good and bad moves, and he's made some of both. He got great return for Gill and hopefully we'll get good value for AK and Campoli. The problem for me is confidence, consistency and respect. I have zero confidence that he'll turn this team into a consistent winner. By being so secretive he shows no respect for his coaches and players. I don't think the players have any confidence in his. Everyone wants to win, but everyone also wants respect and people need that from their boss.

Make him a consultant or head of professional scouting, he's perfectly suited for those jobs and would be one of the best in the league IMO. He's not a good GM.
How were Gill and Spacek poorly treated? He told them they were being traded instead of having them find out on TSN or the internet like a lot of players do. Obviousdly the trade has to be approved by the NHL before you can announce it.

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Old
02-22-2012, 08:57 AM
  #287
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How were Gill and Spacek poorly treated? He told them they were being traded instead of having them find out on TSN or the internet like a lot of players do. Obviousdly the trade has to be approved by the NHL before you can announce it.
that's without saying Gill was traded to a , currently, ranked top 5 team...

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Old
02-22-2012, 09:42 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Before unloading a 25-30 goal guy in Gionta, I'd be sure Parise was signed first.Gomez is a non issue, he won't be on our cap next year either by trade or waivers.

Cap space is a non issue if we want to be agressive after UFA's.
When you say this do you close your eyes , snap your fingers and say words like "hokus pokus".

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Old
02-22-2012, 10:14 AM
  #289
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When you say this do you close your eyes , snap your fingers and say words like "hokus pokus".
Why?

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02-22-2012, 10:17 AM
  #290
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Because only David Blaine could make Parise sign here and make Gomez disappear.

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02-22-2012, 10:25 AM
  #291
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Because only David Blaine could make Parise sign here and make Gomez disappear.
Parise probably won't sign here but we should at least try.

Gomez won't disappear but his cap hit should.

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02-22-2012, 10:41 AM
  #292
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Fire Gauthier


Last edited by Pierre Dagenais: 02-22-2012 at 11:00 AM.
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02-22-2012, 11:17 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
If the GM could unload Kaberle, Gionta, Gomez, Darche, Campoli, Weber & Nokie, I would seriously go after Parise & Suter in the off season.
What would your 'serious' offers to Parise and Suter be (although imho Suter will re-sign in Nashville before July 1st...)?

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02-22-2012, 11:28 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Before unloading a 25-30 goal guy in Gionta, I'd be sure Parise was signed first.Gomez is a non issue, he won't be on our cap next year either by trade or waivers.

Cap space is a non issue if we want to be agressive after UFA's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
When you say this do you close your eyes , snap your fingers and say words like "hokus pokus".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Why?


Because this is a good magic trick.

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02-22-2012, 01:06 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
He should be fired from the GM post for a myriad of reasons.

-Markov----- he may have been duped but the contract should have been incentive based. Molson is on the hook for the money because the contract is not insured. If my employee cost me 15+ million he'd be gone.
Do you know whether or not Molson approved or agreed to the Markov signing before it happened? Because if he did, how was this Gauthier's fault?

And secondly, we were in most likelihood spending up to the cap anyways, so he didn't "cost" the Habs any money, just money would of been spent differently.

I'm not against the Markov signing, my problem was with the lack of a Plan B. Signing Markov was a reasonable chance to take and I have no doubt another team would of taken a chance on him with the same terms.

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02-22-2012, 01:10 PM
  #296
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First, you completely overlook Cole. Letting Wizniewski go was a big part of why we could sign him.

Second, replacing Wiz was supposed to be Markov, whom doctors said last June would be fine(heck he was skating in May and June). Gorges was supposed to replace Hamrlik.

Third, Gauthier didn't "release" Muller, Kirk decided to leave on his own because he wanted to be head coach, not because he was fired. In fact they tried to keep him.

In terms of the off season, the players brought in have been an upgrade on the ones that left. In hindsight with all the injuries we could use Wisniewski, but not at his contract. Cole makes 1 mil less per year and is the more productive player. Campoli was a solid addition but he never got going, getting hurt in the 1st game, when he got back he was in an 8 man rotation for ice time and has never really had a role. Emelin and Diaz are younger, cheaper and better than guys like Sopel and Mara.

What hurt the offense was the general poor play of Cammalleri(which killed the PP) and two injuries to Gionta that forced him to miss 2/3 of the season. even with taht 5 on 5 scoring is actually up.

What I highlighted in bold has become the most tiring excuse and apology for Gauthier. The doctors said......

In the world of hockey and the world of real business, if a manager does not have a credible backup plan in place for unforseen problems, that manager does not keep his job for long.

Now tell us what Gauthier's backup plan was for Markov not being able to play?

We know what his reactionary results were. Campoli and Kaberle. Time for the clueless reactionary to go.

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02-22-2012, 01:17 PM
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What I highlighted in bold has become the most tiring excuse and apology for Gauthier. The doctors said......

In the world of hockey and the world of real business, if a manager does not have a credible backup plan in place for unforseen problems, that manager does not keep his job for long.

Now tell us what Gauthier's backup plan was for Markov not being able to play?

We know what his reactionary results were. Campoli and Kaberle. Time for the clueless reactionary to go.
In the NHL cap world unless it's an injury that hits an area of strength(Pittsburgh at center, Boston in nets etc) your only recourse is trying to build up the depth(adding Emelin Diaz as #6-7-8) and then reacting to the situation. Any player able to fill half of Markov's shoes will get a sizeable cap hit(3 mil+) and term(2-4 years) as a UFA.

What would have been an adequate back up plan?

...and don't annoy me with Wisniewski, he would have cost Cole which would have been one step forward and 2 back.

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02-22-2012, 01:20 PM
  #298
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Because this is a good magic trick.
How is magic needed to put Gomez on waivers and move him elswhere? Chicago did it with Huet, Edmonton with Souray, NYR with Redden etc

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02-22-2012, 01:22 PM
  #299
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How is magic needed to put Gomez on waivers and move him elswhere? Chicago did it with Huet, Edmonton with Souray, NYR with Redden etc
...and replace him with Parise?

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02-22-2012, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
...and replace him with Parise?
What's so funny about that?

If he hits UFA, take a run at him. Might as well try instead of just sitting back and being a clown.

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