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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 3.0

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Old
02-22-2012, 02:57 PM
  #276
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Galchenyuk is/was the better skater (we'll see where he's at once he returns in March) and has the better compete level, because apparently it's through the roof.

Grigorenko's game is built more on smarts and a cerebral approach rather than wowing you on every shift. He's the type of guy you won't notice much for a good chunk of the game but at the end of the night he has 2-3 points and can strike at any moment.

Offensively, from what I have seen, it's just about even in terms of hands skills.

Better two-way player? That I am not sure about.

If Galchenyuk had stayed healthy this year, I have no doubt he would be the 2nd pick in this draft.
Thanks for that. Been seeing you on the habs board more often lately.

I kind of fear getting grigorenko and ending up with a yashin type of effort. I would sacrifice on skill if it means better effort. I may not have said that before, but considering this may our only chance in a long time to draft a #1 center, I don't want to end up with a more talented kostitsyn at center as our future. No disrespect to AK, but we have a chance to get someone that will be a great piece going forward. I trust Timmins and really hope we don't screw it up.

Strictly on need and not on knowledge of the draft, I would hope that the habs draft a potential #1C, if yakupov is available, obviously him first but being realistic, Galchenyuk or Grigorenko would be ideal. At this point, I would not object to a #1 D prospect either, assuming they are legit like a pietrangelo type of upside. I'm far less interested in a winger from a needs perspective. Outside of Yakupov and maybe Forsberg(if I learn more about him), I would be pretty unhappy with a winger. They are easier to acquire as free agents and in trades. Centers can be converted to wing, but not the opposite.

I would even go as far as saying if we finish say 4th and Yakupov, Grigorenko, Forsberg are 1-2-3 and Gauthier has knowledge that Galchenyuk will slide down to 7-8th, I would even trade down if the price was another 1st rounder. yah, i'm just talking stupidity when saying that, but if Alex G is good and fills a need, go for it and maximize assets. For instance, TBL is 8th. If they really want a D ranked 4th, I'd trade down to 8th, get Galchenyuk and accept the detroit pick(30th overall) plus a 2nd. Yah, our first above 5 pick in a long time and I'm suggesting trading down. I've lost it.

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02-22-2012, 03:50 PM
  #277
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Connolly got picked very high after missing the majority of the season. Galchenyuk could go #2-#3

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02-22-2012, 03:51 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Thanks for that. Been seeing you on the habs board more often lately.

I kind of fear getting grigorenko and ending up with a yashin type of effort. I would sacrifice on skill if it means better effort. I may not have said that before, but considering this may our only chance in a long time to draft a #1 center, I don't want to end up with a more talented kostitsyn at center as our future. No disrespect to AK, but we have a chance to get someone that will be a great piece going forward. I trust Timmins and really hope we don't screw it up.

Strictly on need and not on knowledge of the draft, I would hope that the habs draft a potential #1C, if yakupov is available, obviously him first but being realistic, Galchenyuk or Grigorenko would be ideal. At this point, I would not object to a #1 D prospect either, assuming they are legit like a pietrangelo type of upside. I'm far less interested in a winger from a needs perspective. Outside of Yakupov and maybe Forsberg(if I learn more about him), I would be pretty unhappy with a winger. They are easier to acquire as free agents and in trades. Centers can be converted to wing, but not the opposite.

I would even go as far as saying if we finish say 4th and Yakupov, Grigorenko, Forsberg are 1-2-3 and Gauthier has knowledge that Galchenyuk will slide down to 7-8th, I would even trade down if the price was another 1st rounder. yah, i'm just talking stupidity when saying that, but if Alex G is good and fills a need, go for it and maximize assets. For instance, TBL is 8th. If they really want a D ranked 4th, I'd trade down to 8th, get Galchenyuk and accept the detroit pick(30th overall) plus a 2nd. Yah, our first above 5 pick in a long time and I'm suggesting trading down. I've lost it.
First of all Jacques Lemaire was a LW and became a HOF center and many more players have like Dumont in Hamilton right now.Neither Grigorenko or Galchenyuk will drop below 5th pick IMHO and highly unlikely Gauthier will trade down,up is more likely.
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'd take Grigorenko over any one in this draft not named Yakupov.



We need the center. I'm taking Galchenyuk. He's skilled, has a high work ethic, played with Yakupov and turned him into a better player. Good size. He's got the russian talent but is an American Citizen and plays for them internationally.



I'm thinking that if Grigorenko goes past Edmonton (should, they're taking Murray). Carolina has no choice but to select either Grigorenko or Forsberg. I think they take Forsberg to be honest because I think they'll salivate at the thought of Forsberg on Staal's wing.

If we were 4th and it came down to Grigorenko or Galchenyuk. I'd want Grigorenko, will be pissed when they passed on him but would not doubt we'd take Galchenyuk.
Grigorenko is a center,just cause Quebec Remparts list him as RW doesn't preclude the fact he's their first line center.He has scored 32 goals and 40 assists in 49 games while Freddy Roy (Patrick's Roy's son) playing with Mikhail has improved his game to scoring 23 goals and 53 assists in 55 games while his PIM have gone down and he concentrates on hockey instead of fighting and shooting his mouth off.This is the kind of results to expect from the players around Grigorenko,a captain and leader of his pro team in the future no doubt IMHO.Think of all his accomplishments ability to converse in English easily and he wants to be #1 overall in the draft,win a Stanley Cup and make Team Russia for the coming Olympics,his words during the intermission of last Friday's game with St. John's Seadogs and he's almost a year younger than Yakupov.His scoring Avg.is almost identical to Yakupov's from last season.So don't count him out of the running for #1 overall quite yet,the playoffs still have to be played and the Memorial Cup as well.


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02-22-2012, 03:52 PM
  #279
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Redline also ranked Kostitsyn high after he missed some time. They just like enigmatic players.

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02-22-2012, 03:53 PM
  #280
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let's say we win the lottery and pick 1st overall. we end up with Yakupov or Grigorenkov.

Would the kid start next year in Montreal? Or spend another time in junior? I don't remember the last time a player just drafted made it to the habs the next year (granted we haven't drafted that high since the start of the 80s). But still... Yakupov or Grigorenko in a habs jersey next season? It seems to me like it's against the team's philosphy.

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02-22-2012, 04:00 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by wedge View Post
let's say we win the lottery and pick 1st overall. we end up with Yakupov or Grigorenkov.

Would the kid start next year in Montreal? Or spend another time in junior? I don't remember the last time a player just drafted made it to the habs the next year (granted we haven't drafted that high since the start of the 80s). But still... Yakupov or Grigorenko in a habs jersey next season? It seems to me like it's against the team's philosphy.
Yakupov is a late birthday and head and shoulders above the rest, he will definitely be in the NHL next October.

I think Murray might be also, most of the others probably won't but some teams(Columbus) love to rush prospects.

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02-22-2012, 04:03 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by wedge View Post
let's say we win the lottery and pick 1st overall. we end up with Yakupov or Grigorenkov.

Would the kid start next year in Montreal? Or spend another time in junior? I don't remember the last time a player just drafted made it to the habs the next year (granted we haven't drafted that high since the start of the 80s). But still... Yakupov or Grigorenko in a habs jersey next season? It seems to me like it's against the team's philosphy.
1st pick usually start in the NHL the following year. Yakupov has nothing more to prove in the minors, he'll be a nhler next year. Grigorenko could use another year and dominate Radulov's style, but I bet he'll also be in the NHL (in habs jersey of course )... Don't know about Forsberg and Galchenyuk, though... both could use some more seasonning in the minors.

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02-22-2012, 04:08 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
1st pick usually start in the NHL the following year. Yakupov has nothing more to prove in the minors, he'll be a nhler next year. Grigorenko could use another year and dominate Radulov's style, but I bet he'll also be in the NHL (in habs jersey of course )... Don't know about Forsberg and Galchenyuk, though... both could use some more seasonning in the minors.
I pray to all the deceased legends who wore the Habs jersey that we keep any of the guys we pick with our first rounder away from this mess for at least another year and let him come into stabilized organization instead of throwing him to the wolves from the get-go, with all the expectations in the world placed on his shoulders.

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02-22-2012, 04:14 PM
  #284
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First of all Jacques Lemaire was a LW and became a HOF center and many more players have like Dumont in Hamilton right now.Neither Grigorenko or Galchenyuk will drop below 5th pick IMHO and highly unlikely Gauthier will trade down,up is more likely.
I never said a winger can't be good, I just said, all things equal I'd rather the center, it's something we need.

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02-22-2012, 04:52 PM
  #285
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I pray to all the deceased legends who wore the Habs jersey that we keep any of the guys we pick with our first rounder away from this mess for at least another year and let him come into stabilized organization instead of throwing him to the wolves from the get-go, with all the expectations in the world placed on his shoulders.
I think if we get Forsberg or Galchenyuk that they'd probably spend another year in their respective leagues. However, us taking Galchenyuk as high as we're sitting now is predicated on the idea that he comes back and ****s **** up. In that case, I don't know. He might just play his way onto the team.

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02-22-2012, 04:58 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
I pray to all the deceased legends who wore the Habs jersey that we keep any of the guys we pick with our first rounder away from this mess for at least another year and let him come into stabilized organization instead of throwing him to the wolves from the get-go, with all the expectations in the world placed on his shoulders.
Really, if we pick Nail you would want him to waste another year in the OHL

But I agree that anyone not named Nail is not ready for the NHL next year.

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02-22-2012, 05:03 PM
  #287
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Really, if we pick Nail you would want him to waste another year in the OHL

But I agree that anyone not named Nail is not ready for the NHL next year.
Even him.

We don't 'need' anyone to come in and save the team. Let whatever new GM and new coach put their stamp on the team and have him come in with a nice group of maturing youngsters and good veterans to surround him.

We already have a really young team, let those find their place on the team before bringing in the guy that's going to lead them.

Anyway, that's how I'd do it. This is one guy we can't afford to whiff on.

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02-22-2012, 05:06 PM
  #288
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Even him.

We don't 'need' anyone to come in and save the team. Let whatever new GM and new coach put their stamp on the team and have him come in with a nice group of maturing youngsters and good veterans to surround him.

We already have a really young team, let those find their place on the team before bringing in the guy that's going to lead them.

Anyway, that's how I'd do it. This is one guy we can't afford to whiff on.
We have had some bad games, but I don't think we are Columbus and need "saving".
I think with some issues fixed in the off season(home record PP and help for the top 4 on defense) we could easily jump to 95 points.

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02-22-2012, 05:11 PM
  #289
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Yakupov is already wasting his time in the OHL this season. i can't imagine what it would be like next year. He would probably go back to Russia if habs didnt want him in their lineup next season.

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02-22-2012, 07:27 PM
  #290
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Thanks for that. Been seeing you on the habs board more often lately.

I kind of fear getting grigorenko and ending up with a yashin type of effort. I would sacrifice on skill if it means better effort. I may not have said that before, but considering this may our only chance in a long time to draft a #1 center, I don't want to end up with a more talented kostitsyn at center as our future. No disrespect to AK, but we have a chance to get someone that will be a great piece going forward. I trust Timmins and really hope we don't screw it up.

Strictly on need and not on knowledge of the draft, I would hope that the habs draft a potential #1C, if yakupov is available, obviously him first but being realistic, Galchenyuk or Grigorenko would be ideal. At this point, I would not object to a #1 D prospect either, assuming they are legit like a pietrangelo type of upside. I'm far less interested in a winger from a needs perspective. Outside of Yakupov and maybe Forsberg(if I learn more about him), I would be pretty unhappy with a winger. They are easier to acquire as free agents and in trades.Centers can be converted to wing, but not the opposite.

I would even go as far as saying if we finish say 4th and Yakupov, Grigorenko, Forsberg are 1-2-3 and Gauthier has knowledge that Galchenyuk will slide down to 7-8th, I would even trade down if the price was another 1st rounder. yah, i'm just talking stupidity when saying that, but if Alex G is good and fills a need, go for it and maximize assets. For instance, TBL is 8th. If they really want a D ranked 4th, I'd trade down to 8th, get Galchenyuk and accept the detroit pick(30th overall) plus a 2nd. Yah, our first above 5 pick in a long time and I'm suggesting trading down. I've lost it.
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I never said a winger can't be good, I just said, all things equal I'd rather the center, it's something we need.
In your 2nd paragraph,last sentence,is why I told you about wingers that have become centers HOF wingers have.Had you read the rest of my post I talked about Grigorenko being a center and how good a player he's going to be.

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02-22-2012, 07:34 PM
  #291
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In your 2nd paragraph,last sentence,is why I told you about wingers that have become centers HOF wingers have.Had you read the rest of my post I talked about Grigorenko being a center and how good a player he's going to be.
Its still true that while its not impossible for a winger to become a Centre... its far easier and more likely that the Centre becomes a Wing than vice versa.

Or are we gonna give all centres the potential to be elite defencemen, because Markov was drafted as a Centre, or all Defencemen have the chance to be centres because Red Kelly once changed positions.

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02-22-2012, 07:35 PM
  #292
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In your 2nd paragraph,last sentence,is why I told you about wingers that have become centers HOF wingers have.Had you read the rest of my post I talked about Grigorenko being a center and how good a player he's going to be.
I misread, my bad. Still, more likely a center is converted than the alternative.

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02-22-2012, 08:00 PM
  #293
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Its still true that while its not impossible for a winger to become a Centre... its far easier and more likely that the Centre becomes a Wing than vice versa.

Or are we gonna give all centres the potential to be elite defencemen, because Markov was drafted as a Centre, or all Defencemen have the chance to be centres because Red Kelly once changed positions.
While that's true about Kelly and Markov and one is already won Norris trophies and a HOF'r.The Habs don't really need defencemen that badly at the moment,but you never know it's a little late this season to change one now.I know it wouldn't be my suggestion to try that I'm not involved enough to make any is a good thing.

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02-22-2012, 08:23 PM
  #294
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First of all Jacques Lemaire was a LW and became a HOF center and many more players have like Dumont in Hamilton right now.Neither Grigorenko or Galchenyuk will drop below 5th pick IMHO and highly unlikely Gauthier will trade down,up is more likely.

Grigorenko is a center,just cause Quebec Remparts list him as RW doesn't preclude the fact he's their first line center.He has scored 32 goals and 40 assists in 49 games while Freddy Roy (Patrick's Roy's son) playing with Mikhail has improved his game to scoring 23 goals and 53 assists in 55 games while his PIM have gone down and he concentrates on hockey instead of fighting and shooting his mouth off.This is the kind of results to expect from the players around Grigorenko,a captain and leader of his pro team in the future no doubt IMHO.Think of all his accomplishments ability to converse in English easily and he wants to be #1 overall in the draft,win a Stanley Cup and make Team Russia for the coming Olympics,his words during the intermission of last Friday's game with St. John's Seadogs and he's almost a year younger than Yakupov.His scoring is Avg.is almost identical to Yakupov's from last season.So don't count him out of the running for #1 overall quite yet,the playoffs still have to be played and the Memorial Cup as well.
I'm aware Grigorenko is a center. I was talking at that point about Galchenyuk vs. Forsberg.

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02-22-2012, 09:10 PM
  #295
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I'm aware Grigorenko is a center. I was talking at that point about Galchenyuk vs. Forsberg.
I figured that didn't sound like you my bad,sorry and all four are good picks from what I've seen the Habs can't go wrong with any of those players IMO.

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02-22-2012, 10:17 PM
  #296
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Forsberg is playing with mens in the second division in sweden i think he could start in the nhl next year or at least have the opportunity like Zibanejad had this year.

I'm think we are getting Grigorenko also i don't know why just a feeling they have been scouting the remparts and they are probably going to trade up to get him if they have the feeling he is going top 3.

Mtl needs to make a splash and i think they know it after this mess of a season they owe it to the fans to get Grigorenko or even Yakupov.

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02-22-2012, 11:08 PM
  #297
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Yakupov will play in the NHL next year. Grigorenko and Forsberg could go either way, the latter could still build up more but he is used to playing with adults. Both would get NHL trial runs at the very least.

Galchenyuk who knows.

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02-22-2012, 11:46 PM
  #298
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Its still true that while its not impossible for a winger to become a Centre... its far easier and more likely that the Centre becomes a Wing than vice versa.

Or are we gonna give all centres the potential to be elite defencemen, because Markov was drafted as a Centre, or all Defencemen have the chance to be centres because Red Kelly once changed positions.
The Habs need offense period, if that comes in the form of a winger so be it. It means Plekanec finally has someone elite to feed pucks to all night long and we don't have to trade one of DD/Eller.

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02-23-2012, 02:34 AM
  #299
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The Habs need offense period, if that comes in the form of a winger so be it. It means Plekanec finally has someone elite to feed pucks to all night long and we don't have to trade one of DD/Eller.
I don't get the obsession with centres. Given the choice between an elite centre and elite winger with equal intangibles you go with the centre, yes. But picking Grigorenko over Yakupov because of his position makes no sense, virtually every scout out there is saying that Yakupov is a step above everyone else right now. Using Ovechkin and Malkin to refute this doesn't work, Malkin was already a faster and more physical player than Grigorenko at the time he was drafted and Ovechkin probably could have remained the superior player had he been smarter and worked harder. What's hurt Ovechkin isn't his position, it's that he's one dimensional and has no aptitude for defense.

The Habs need high end forwards, wingers or centres. Our wingers suck at passing, it makes the Cs job harder. Eller, DD, Plekanec isn't elite by any means but it's a balanced skill set. I'm just as concerned about our winger strength - we have a lot of depth but very little high end skill. Pacioretty will get better, Cole and Gionta if healthy are very valuable, but they are what they are. After that we have enigmas and role players.


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02-23-2012, 04:28 AM
  #300
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
1st pick usually start in the NHL the following year. Yakupov has nothing more to prove in the minors, he'll be a nhler next year. Grigorenko could use another year and dominate Radulov's style, but I bet he'll also be in the NHL (in habs jersey of course )... Don't know about Forsberg and Galchenyuk, though... both could use some more seasonning in the minors.
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
I pray to all the deceased legends who wore the Habs jersey that we keep any of the guys we pick with our first rounder away from this mess for at least another year and let him come into stabilized organization instead of throwing him to the wolves from the get-go, with all the expectations in the world placed on his shoulders.
Absolutely want the pick to be handled with kid gloves like Guy Lafleur was in 1971 and he was 20 years old when drafted.Then he started his apprenticeship,which took three yrs. and seen him change from a center to a RW and everybody knows the story from that point on.Point being the Habs haven't had the chance to draft this low(Cross my fingers)in thirty years depending on the lottery too.So take special care in his development and let's have another jersey to retire in 20 years please.On another note the team that drafts Forsberg can sign him and play him in the AHL to get him used to the NA game this season.Where the other picks playing in the CHL have played the NA game already but can't be sent to the AHL until they turn 20 yrs. old.My feeling is all four could play in the NHL next season on the teams drafting that low,even in Montreal.It would be a really special draft if Montreal got another 1st round pick in the 15-20 spot and picked Cody Ceci I think he will be a really good 3rd or 4th dman with Tinordi as his partner.


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