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"Aww, that's Nash-ty." Nash Rumors Part V: McKenzie says down to Rangers/Sharks

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02-22-2012, 08:12 PM
  #226
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LOL.

I don't even know what to say anymore. Posters who are crying that Nash's contract will cripple our team when it's time to resign our RFA's have absolutely no issue shelling out nearly the same amount of money to sign Parise.

Parise isn't going to be a Ranger. I don't see it happening like I could see for a year with Brad Richards. Just the fact that some of you would cringe at having Nash's contract on the team but be perfectly fine with signing Parise is laughable. In fact it would actually be harder to resign all of our RFA's if we signed Parise because we'd still have that 4.2 mill waste of space on the roster.
Trade Dubi at the deadline for Semin...rids us of his cap hit moving forward and Washington gets a good return and Semin has a monster playoff since he is going to be a UFA and will want to impress somebody somewhere . We win the Cup...let Semin walk and then sign Parise . As they say...next song ~

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02-22-2012, 08:16 PM
  #227
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LOL.

I don't even know what to say anymore. Posters who are crying that Nash's contract will cripple our team when it's time to resign our RFA's have absolutely no issue shelling out nearly the same amount of money to sign Parise.

Parise isn't going to be a Ranger. I don't see it happening like I could see for a year with Brad Richards. Just the fact that some of you would cringe at having Nash's contract on the team but be perfectly fine with signing Parise is laughable. In fact it would actually be harder to resign all of our RFA's if we signed Parise because we'd still have that 4.2 mill waste of space on the roster.
I'm anti-Nash, but not on the Praise bandwagon either. That being said, I would much rather have Zach Parise than Rick Nash. Plus, the Rangers have the available option to take a run at Parise with a long term, cap-friendly contract, that has plenty of low-salary years to bring down the hit (not to mention the other assets saved by not trading for him).

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Old
02-22-2012, 08:18 PM
  #228
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I have a question. What's stopping the Howson from not trading him at all? Not like this is the last year of his contract. Osi Umenyiora of the Giants demanded either a contract extension or a trade and got neither. He played great and the Giants won it all. Why not just keep Nash?

Edit: I know that the Giants weren't a last place team and that probably makes a difference.
Short answer: Nothing at all.

However, the situation isn't so cut and dry. The Jackets have been in the bottom-10 of the league every year since their inception, save for their one run into the playoffs. Despite that, they've managed to develop one franchise talent, who was really a "can't miss" player to begin with, and virtually nobody else. Howson sees dealing Nash as his ticket to an "expedited rebuild" process. Deal a franchise player, and in return get some premium, young, NHL ready assets to add to a group of Brassard, Johansen, Moore, Savard, and likely Yakupov.

The problem with that mentality is, well, most other GM's aren't dumb enough to buy what he's selling. Howson is acting as if he's in a position of power. He's not. Nash has not lived up to his contract, is committed long term, and not many teams have the gall to roll the dice on him finding that next level on their team, let alone give up prime assets for the opportunity to take that risk. Add to that the fact that Nash has a NMC, and Howson is realistically looking at 2, maybe 3 teams that he can make a deal with. Us being one of them.

So, sure, Howson could keep him and see where it lands him, but I think once you dangle the face of the franchise on the trade market, you've pretty much forced yourself into trading him. No matter what Nash is saying to the media about "Doing whatever is best for the Jackets," you can kind of see that he'd like to get out of there.

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02-22-2012, 08:18 PM
  #229
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Yes lets wait and sign another usless devil, because it has always worked so well in the past

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02-22-2012, 08:19 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
I'm anti-Nash, but not on the Praise bandwagon either. That being said, I would much rather have Zach Parise than Rick Nash. Plus, the Rangers have the available option to take a run at Parise with a long term, cap-friendly contract, that has plenty of low-salary years to bring down the hit (not to mention the other assets saved by not trading for him).
And why would he take a cap friendly contract from the Rangers but he wouldn't take a similar contract from the Devils?

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02-22-2012, 08:19 PM
  #231
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Well, I'll tell ya what: you get the NHL to agree to a one-time waiver on the rule against contract renegotiations, get Nash to renegotiate to a 5 year deal with an AAV of about $5.5MM - and then I'll back off my position of not including Kreider.
You folks did just see the deal Rutuu (sp?) signed in Carolina right? I mean if that guy get's almost 5mil per, what is Parise going to want on the UFA market? If you have the opportunity to get a guy like Nash for what amounts to 3 mil more per by moving Dubi the other direction.. I say you're crazy if you pass that opportunity up to hold onto a top prospect or two...Rutuu's contract just guaranteed Parise 7 mil per AT LEAST as an UFA....

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02-22-2012, 08:21 PM
  #232
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I'm curious what the other deals are that are "being held up" by the Nash decision.

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02-22-2012, 08:22 PM
  #233
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You folks did just see the deal Rutuu (sp?) signed in Carolina right? I mean if that guy get's almost 5mil per, what is Parise going to want on the UFA market? If you have the opportunity to get a guy like Nash for what amounts to 3 mil more per by moving Dubi the other direction.. I say you're crazy if you pass that opportunity up to hold onto a top prospect or two...Rutuu's contract just guaranteed Parise 7 mil per AT LEAST as an UFA....
Ruutu's contract has absolutely no bearing on Parise's situation... Parise's play the last several years has already guaranteed him $7 mil on the open market with competing suitors... It has absolutely nothing to do with Tuomo Ruutu, lol.

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02-22-2012, 08:22 PM
  #234
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And why would he take a cap friendly contract from the Rangers but he wouldn't take a similar contract from the Devils?
I think it would be more of the Devils not being able to commit financially to another 100 million dollar contract.

100 million dollar long term deal from another team or a 5 year 35 million contract from the Devils. Which way do you go?

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02-22-2012, 08:25 PM
  #235
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I'm trying....But if you wouldn't be willing to move your UNPROVEN, NEVER PLAYED AN NHL GAME top prospect in a deal for Rick Nash, a deal in which I'm only getting "1" current roster player for, a deal which makes your roster a pretty damn stout roster over the next few seasons, I call you crazy....A deal that does nothing but increases your odds over the next few years at winning a Cup, not just this year..Your going to toss that for C.K. ?? .... Wow, he must be special...
Again. This isn't a vacuum. And this isn't about unproven player x and NHL superstar y.

There are far more implications than that.

Cap. Expiring CBA. Core RFA group needing new contracts.

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02-22-2012, 08:26 PM
  #236
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And why would he take a cap friendly contract from the Rangers but he wouldn't take a similar contract from the Devils?
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02-22-2012, 08:26 PM
  #237
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And why would he take a cap friendly contract from the Rangers but he wouldn't take a similar contract from the Devils?
Because the franchise is going broke and aren't set up to be contenders for the foreseeable future?

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02-22-2012, 08:26 PM
  #238
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Ruutu's contract has absolutely no bearing on Parise's situation... Parise's play the last several years has already guaranteed him $7 mil on the open market with competing suitors... It has absolutely nothing to do with Tuomo Ruutu, lol.
I disagree, how can it not ? if a guy like Ruutu garners 5 mil per based on #'s, what he brings to the game, etc.. If you're Parise's agent, what does that do to the value of your client? No impact ??? Crazy talk !!! Parise should commend 8mil per if I'm his agent, anything less and you're getting a deal !!!!

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02-22-2012, 08:27 PM
  #239
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I think we know two things - 1). Patrick has been scouting Connecticut, and, 2) Columbus has been asking all teams involved for a young Dman. If the Rangers aren't giving up either MDZ or McD, then it only makes sense that Erixon is in the deal. Dubi/Erixon and this year's #1, to me, seems like the obvious core to the Ranger offer.
That's my take as well. Erixon is pretty close to NHL ready, but for a bottom feeder like Columbus, "pretty close" is generally good enough to make the jump. I really like Erixon as a prospect, but let's be honest here. He has to leapfrog one of MDZ, McD, Staal, Sauer or Girardi just to be anything more than a #6 in NY. That's a tall order.

Dubi, Erixon, and our first rounder is almost certainly the core of our offer. I have a gut feeling Thomas might be included, but I think Slats is going to stand firm on Kreider, Miller and McIlrath.

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02-22-2012, 08:28 PM
  #240
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I still believe Sather tells Howson Kreider and Erixon are untouchable.

If the deal is on Sather's terms, which I believe it mostly is, then I don't expect either player to be in the deal.
If it goes down Erixon will be the guy to go . They will be getting a D man or D prospect back . I'm thinking Erixon as he COULD play in the league right now .
Dubi + Erixon + 1 ST and some kind of conditional pick is my guess .
As for the Jan Erixon thing , I saw Jan play he was a helluva board Player and grinder / defensive FW but lets get real if the NYR can do a deal for NASH bad cap hit and all and see CK at least play on the team he does it
. Having Two 6'4 x 225 big body wings who can skate ( one who can really fly ) plus Gaby , Callahan , Hagelin as your other wingers is pretty nice looking group of FWs .
The RFA situation will sort itself out .

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02-22-2012, 08:28 PM
  #241
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Bobby Mac on NHL Live on NBC just outlined why Nash is not going to LA.

1. Nash does not want to go to LA.
2. Columbus want to pawn off Carter on the Kings. Can't do it by trading Nash there too. Moving Nash to NYR or SJ forces LA's hand on Carter.

He also said it's between NYR and SJ or Nash doesn't get moved at all. He said Nash wants to go NY, likes it as a hockey market, but might be swayed to move to SJ due to his relationship with Thornton and Sharks perennial contender status.

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02-22-2012, 08:28 PM
  #242
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I think it would be more of the Devils not being able to commit financially to another 100 million dollar contract.

100 million dollar long term deal from another team or a 5 year 35 million contract from the Devils. Which way do you go?
You're basing it on a lot of assumptions though. Like what the Devils can or can't afford, and what the contracts are that will be presented to him. On top of that you're assuming that the negotiations will be in a vacuum and no other teams will be involved.

Nash is nearly the same in terms if AAV and age, but you have a more certain chance of getting Nash if you wanted.

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02-22-2012, 08:30 PM
  #243
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I disagree, how can it not ? if a guy like Ruutu garnes 5 mil per based on #'s, what he brings to the game, etc.. If you're Parise's agent, what does that do to the value of your client? No impact ??? Crazy talk !!! Parise should commend 8mil per if I'm his agent, anything less and your getting a deal !!!!
These 2 players aren't even in the same league when it comes to forwards... Was Ruutu signed on the open market? NO... He was extended while he was still Canes property... Tell me how this is at all analogous to an elite player in Zach Parise who will be a UFA on July 1st? If Parise's agent brings up Toumu Ruutu (of all players) in a contract negotiation, GM's are going to chuckle.

We both agree that Parise is going to get his payday, but my contention is that it will have absolutely nothing to do with Ruutu's contract.

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02-22-2012, 08:33 PM
  #244
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Because the franchise is going broke and aren't set up to be contenders for the foreseeable future?
And how do you propose we sign all of our key RFA's in like 2 years?

At least with Nash we get rid of 4.2 million in wasted cap space. We don't have that option with Parise who will basically cost as much as Nash.

You could argue its easier financially to get Nash and sign all of our RFA's.

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02-22-2012, 08:35 PM
  #245
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You're basing it on a lot of assumptions though. Like what the Devils can or can't afford, and what the contracts are that will be presented to him. On top of that you're assuming that the negotiations will be in a vacuum and no other teams will be involved.

Nash is nearly the same in terms if AAV and age, but you have a more certain chance of getting Nash if you wanted.
Well obviously no one here knows what the Devils can actually afford, but from the outside it seems like they are having money problems.

Also I wrote "another team" could offer a bigger contract, not that it would necessarily be the Rangers or Parise would sign here.

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02-22-2012, 08:35 PM
  #246
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Bobby Mac on NHL Live on NBC just outlined why Nash is not going to LA.

1. Nash does not want to go to LA.
2. Columbus want to pawn off Carter on the Kings. Can't do it by trading Nash there too. Moving Nash to NYR or SJ forces LA's hand on Carter.

He also said it's between NYR and SJ or Nash doesn't get moved at all. He said Nash wants to go NY, likes it as a hockey market, but might be swayed to move to SJ due to his relationship with Thornton and Sharks perennial contender status.
And this is why Columbus has no leverage in this situation. At all. None.

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02-22-2012, 08:39 PM
  #247
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Bobby Mac on NHL Live on NBC just outlined why Nash is not going to LA.

1. Nash does not want to go to LA.
2. Columbus want to pawn off Carter on the Kings. Can't do it by trading Nash there too. Moving Nash to NYR or SJ forces LA's hand on Carter.

He also said it's between NYR and SJ or Nash doesn't get moved at all. He said Nash wants to go NY, likes it as a hockey market, but might be swayed to move to SJ due to his relationship with Thornton and Sharks perennial contender status.
Interesting

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02-22-2012, 08:39 PM
  #248
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Columbus needs to move both Carter & Nash by this summer at the very least... Very unhealthy for their locker room to have 2 players who are rumored to want out and whose status is in limbo. Rest of the team and organization needs to move on and it's not healthy for your locker room to have such an uncertain future for the team while these two players wait to be shopped.

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02-22-2012, 08:40 PM
  #249
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These 2 players aren't even in the same league when it comes to forwards... Was Ruutu signed on the open market? NO... He was extended while he was still Canes property... Tell me how this is at all analogous to an elite player in Zach Parise who will be a UFA on July 1st? If Parise's agent brings up Toumu Ruutu (of all players) in a contract negotiation, GM's are going to chuckle.

We both agree that Parise is going to get his payday, but my contention is that it will have absolutely nothing to do with Ruutu's contract.

It's not about the player's, it's about the market....and yes the market is set or being driven by contract's player's are signing based on production and other things that don't have #'s like leadership, character etc...

I agree they're not in the same league, not by any stretch, but if you're Parise's agent and you get a call from the Devil's front office at season's end offering you 7mil per for 10yrs, one of the first things out of my mouth is...You're kidding right? And I send a copy of Ruutu's contract to NJ and have them look at the numbers and call me back...Ruutu's contract will have an impact on every 15- 20 goal 30-40 point scoring FWD's contract, let alone a 30-40 70 + point guy...

Edit: And if my guy is producing 2x's what a 5 mil per guy is, how is asking for 10mil per out of the question?


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02-22-2012, 08:41 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
And how do you propose we sign all of our key RFA's in like 2 years?

At least with Nash we get rid of 4.2 million in wasted cap space. We don't have that option with Parise who will basically cost as much as Nash.

You could argue its easier financially to get Nash and sign all of our RFA's.
And we set back in with the anti-Dubinsky rhetoric. If the team agrees with you that the cap space allotted to Dubinsky is excessive, he'll be traded. Teams have been asking for Dubinsky for years now, he doesn't have any kind of NTC, and someone would give us something for him.

If Parise won't sign a contract with a reasonable cap hit then screw him. Don't sign him and stay the course.

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