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PGT: Habs Lose !!!!!! (Tank the Tank-Gods!!!)

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Old
02-22-2012, 09:22 PM
  #351
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
It is mainly because the Habs management are hiding or seems to hide informations. So the medias are speculating a lot.

Habs have to fix their media relations.
They're not hiding anything. They have no obligations to let the public know whatever it wants.

If they don't want to tell people Markov is out for the year, then it's their right. That doesn't mean they are hiding things.

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Old
02-22-2012, 09:45 PM
  #352
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Those who believe the media doesn't have anything to do with the teams succes are out of touch from reality. The media has alot more influence then you can imagine. How many revolutions have started or dictators have been taken down by the media? Just look at the Americans after 911, it took what, 8 years to speak against Bush?*
Look what happened with Carbonneau, Ribiero, Koivu, Roy, etc. All run out of town by the media. How many coaches fired and went to be successful somewhere else, with less scrutiny.
You hear them say it all the time... Losing sells way more then winning for them. You don't think they would want the team to lose if it means they will sell more papers, or have more listeners? Of course they prefer a losing team. They always say they are not fans, why is that. Why aren't people allowed to cheer in the press box?*
Look at every other team in the NHL and compare their media. Look at jack Edwards of the Stanley cup champian Bruins. He's a fan! I hate him, but he loves the team he covers and shows it.*
In Montreal you have either A) Toronto sports media covering the team who will always bash the habs and promote everyone against them or b) the French media who promote the French players on the team or the French players on the other teams.
This is gonna sound a little weird but we need some "homers" covering the Habs. I'm sick of all those "awayers". Media who will talk positively about all the players and the games, so when the actual players pick up a paper or watch the replay can feel a little good about themselves. So when they tune in to 990 am they will here something nice as oppose to hearing Tony and Meatballs saying how they should all be traded or fired.*
If you don't think that media has nothing to do with a player's confidence then you are out of touch with reality. That's it.*

I don't remember who the player was, but I remember someone saying that his kids were being laughed at school because of what was said in the paper about his dad. Nah that has nothing to do with a players confidence, right?*
Like I said in my earlier post, the media around this team is the main problem in their success over the last 20 years or so. Something needs to change, and a few press passes being revoked by Molson would be a great start!

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Old
02-22-2012, 09:52 PM
  #353
WhiskeySeven
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You really gotta learn what the term "kool-aid" means. You personify it.
I support continuity and logic. I was clamoring to get JM fired, who was by and large backed by management right until the end - I'm not just supporting the Habs blindly. The team makes mistakes all the time but it's illogical to think that they're the only management group who've ever made a mistake or took a risk. Blaming Markov on Gauthier is really easy now but I find these kinds of moves all over the league. Look at Dean Lombardi, signing Jack Johnson and Drew Doughty to their contracts. They were the most hyped team in the league, and they rebuilt properly and are still nowhere closer to anything.

With regards to you, I find your outlook not only illogical but highly ill-informed. Atlanta, Columbus, Phoenix, the Wild (at times), LA, Chicago, Colorado, Pittsburgh and Washington have all been a bottom-feeder for at least two of the past ten years. Two of them won cups.

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Stubbs is absolutely right. This rebuild is a long time coming. We've avoided it forever and it's gotten us nowhere. Yet folks like yourself are always here telling us that cup contention is right around the corner.
Y'know what a rebuild is? It's not just tanking, it has to do with organizational structure and a rebranding. Investing in development and scouting is also a big factor in a rebuild. Edmonton did the same with their facilities while they've been tanking.

Gainey's tenure took care of a lot of that - his record as an NHL gm is spotty at best but I'll never discredit him for the revitalized Habs. Sometimes I think a lot of people just dissociate from how ****ing bad the team was ten years ago. Not a single prospect was working out, the drafts were terrible, the farm team was shared with another club, etc. If it weren't for Jose Theodore we probably would've tanked constantly.

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
As for management being different... meet the new boss, same as the old boss. We've always done things the same way and expected different results. No surprise that it hasn't happened.
No. Wrong wrong wrong. There is no "we". There is no continiuity from 20 years ago to today. Houle->Savard->Gainey/Gauthier. Three distinct management groups. Three different owners. More than 7 coaches. There is no "we". The way each of those GMs attacked the league is their own distinct method and only falls on themselves, you can't credit Andre Savard for drafting Carey Price nor can you attack Houle for losing Robidas/Ribeiro/SKostitsyn. It doesn't work that way and you know it.

There is no "we".

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
These aren't "lies" or the "self interested" ramblings of a sportswriter. Those opinions are well founded and backed up by almost two decades of medicority. If we'd done something about this a long time ago we wouldn't be in this situation now but we repeatedly put our heads in the sand and pretend everything's fine. It's not fine. We're currently in 14th place and the Canes are one point behind with a game in hand. We haven't sniffed the cup since '93 and we're not going to sniff it for at least a few more years.

Again, you need to wake up and start being more objective about your own team. And uh, stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

Right it's the medias fault we're in 14th place and have had almost two decades of mediocrity. And it's their fault for reporting it too.
If you've ever read Stubbs' pieces you'd know that he's a rambling self-interested sports writer. He writes human-interest stories and is becoming increasingly two-faced. I heard him live on TSN TV, morose and downtrodden, about the "brutal" rebuild the team will have to partake. He's never said anything of the sort in his columns on H/IO.

If you keep trotting out "14th place" I can keep trotting out '1st in the east', '7 games against the cup winner', 'conference finalist'. You're cherry picking, it's childish.

You're doing what the media does: lump the blame and separate the praise. Good game? Price stole it. Bad game? This team lacks talent.

It doesn't work that way, everyone knows it. We have our franchise, generational player in Carey Price the rest of the pieces will fit in where they fit in but with Subban, Gorges, Patches, DD (yes, DD), and the young talent that's finally going to start graduating I'm not worried in the least.

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Old
02-22-2012, 10:05 PM
  #354
Kimota
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
They're not hiding anything. They have no obligations to let the public know whatever it wants.

If they don't want to tell people Markov is out for the year, then it's their right. That doesn't mean they are hiding things.
Habs have been run like the Maffia for many years. You would have to be blind to be a have been a Habs fan and not see it. Players from other teams have much more freedom to talk to the media and so forth. Habs has acted that way since forever probably started when Serge Savard was there. For management it was always "us against the World" and what it does is that it creates an air of suspiscion. Feels like management view journalist from a place of superiority and contempt. So when thing go back, the media are quick to attack them. It's even worse with Gauthier there's no connection with management and the hockey community. If you compare the Habs and the Sens for example, first thing Eugene Melnyck did when he joined the Sens, he opened up the training room for journalists so they would have ultimate access. the Sens are much more in sych with their community.

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Old
02-22-2012, 10:09 PM
  #355
Kimota
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Those who believe the media doesn't have anything to do with the teams succes are out of touch from reality. The media has alot more influence then you can imagine. How many revolutions have started or dictators have been taken down by the media? Just look at the Americans after 911, it took what, 8 years to speak against Bush?*
Look what happened with Carbonneau, Ribiero, Koivu, Roy, etc. All run out of town by the media. How many coaches fired and went to be successful somewhere else, with less scrutiny.
You hear them say it all the time... Losing sells way more then winning for them. You don't think they would want the team to lose if it means they will sell more papers, or have more listeners? Of course they prefer a losing team. They always say they are not fans, why is that. Why aren't people allowed to cheer in the press box?*
Look at every other team in the NHL and compare their media. Look at jack Edwards of the Stanley cup champian Bruins. He's a fan! I hate him, but he loves the team he covers and shows it.*
In Montreal you have either A) Toronto sports media covering the team who will always bash the habs and promote everyone against them or b) the French media who promote the French players on the team or the French players on the other teams.
This is gonna sound a little weird but we need some "homers" covering the Habs. I'm sick of all those "awayers". Media who will talk positively about all the players and the games, so when the actual players pick up a paper or watch the replay can feel a little good about themselves. So when they tune in to 990 am they will here something nice as oppose to hearing Tony and Meatballs saying how they should all be traded or fired.*
If you don't think that media has nothing to do with a player's confidence then you are out of touch with reality. That's it.*

I don't remember who the player was, but I remember someone saying that his kids were being laughed at school because of what was said in the paper about his dad. Nah that has nothing to do with a players confidence, right?*
Like I said in my earlier post, the media around this team is the main problem in their success over the last 20 years or so. Something needs to change, and a few press passes being revoked by Molson would be a great start!
It's the other way around, they should clear the air out and be more friendly with the media, not be more hostile. Why do you think Edwards is such a Bruins fan? because he's basically sleeping at the arena and the Bruins treat him like family.

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Old
02-22-2012, 10:33 PM
  #356
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I support continuity and logic. I was clamoring to get JM fired, who was by and large backed by management right until the end - I'm not just supporting the Habs blindly. The team makes mistakes all the time but it's illogical to think that they're the only management group who've ever made a mistake or took a risk. Blaming Markov on Gauthier is really easy now but I find these kinds of moves all over the league. Look at Dean Lombardi, signing Jack Johnson and Drew Doughty to their contracts. They were the most hyped team in the league, and they rebuilt properly and are still nowhere closer to anything.
How in the world is signing Drew Doughty to his contract comparable to not having a backup for the inevitable injury to Markov? Come on man. You are grasping at straws here.

I haven't even criticized him for signing Markov nor have I criticized him for not signing Wiz. What I WILL criticize him for is what he deserves to be criticized on... not preparing for Markov's injuries. He waits until the season almost starts and then realizes that Markov isn't ready to go. "Uh, oh... what do I do now?" So he goes and gets Campioli (the only guy who doesn't have a job) AND gives the guy a raise to boot.

You're telling me that he shouldn't be held responsible for this? That's flat out dumb! There's no way that he should be given a free pass on that one. And then he compounds the problem when we're already well out of a playoff spot with TK. These are stupid knee jerk reactive moves dude.
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
With regards to you, I find your outlook not only illogical but highly ill-informed. Atlanta, Columbus, Phoenix, the Wild (at times), LA, Chicago, Colorado, Pittsburgh and Washington have all been a bottom-feeder for at least two of the past ten years. Two of them won cups.
So what? Seriously man, have you not learned anything yet?

First, nobody is claiming that only tanking will net you a winner. What drafting high WILL do though is get you superstars. Sooner or later you'll land one. And that's what we've needed FOREVER. Those clubs have drafted top 10 consistently and it's landed them all at least one superstar. Some of these clubs have also traded to get young prospects and picks that turned into great players like Mike Green.

LA: Doughty, Kopitar
Chicago: Toews & Kane
Atlanta: Kovalchuk and Heately
Columbus: Nash
Pittsburgh: Crosby etc...
Washington: Backstrom, OV etc...

The Wild and Phoenix have not had a sustained period of 'tanking'. And the Wild were an expansion club starting from nothing and they landed Gaborik.

Do you get it now? Is it starting to sink in yet? The only reason we have our best player is because of a one time lottery that landed us a top five. That was flat out dumb luck. I'm not even suggesting that we pull an Oilers style tank and go for four years at the bottom but we've got to be more proactive about getting picks and prospects. We NEVER do this and it's killed us.

And it's especially stupid because we've got the best scouting in the league!
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Y'know what a rebuild is? It's not just tanking, it has to do with organizational structure and a rebranding. Investing in development and scouting is also a big factor in a rebuild. Edmonton did the same with their facilities while they've been tanking.

Gainey's tenure took care of a lot of that - his record as an NHL gm is spotty at best but I'll never discredit him for the revitalized Habs. Sometimes I think a lot of people just dissociate from how ****ing bad the team was ten years ago. Not a single prospect was working out, the drafts were terrible, the farm team was shared with another club, etc. If it weren't for Jose Theodore we probably would've tanked constantly.
Who cares?

We all know that we've got more resources than other teams. We SHOULD have more resources. We have the best fan base in the world with our own TV deals. Other clubs would kill to have what we do.

But... we don't take advantage of it. And Gainey lost his mind in the 2nd half of his tenure, something that PG has continued on his route to last place. Instead of building via the draft, we go the quick fix route. So long McD, Lats, Chips, Kosti (x2?), O'Byrne, Lapierre, Higgins etc... Hello Gomez, Gionta, Samsonov, Tanguay, Cammy, Lang, Cole, Kaberle, Bourque...

That's how we've been building our team for a long time man. And that is NOT rebuilding.

You clearly do not understand what a 'rebuild' is.
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
No. Wrong wrong wrong. There is no "we". There is no continiuity from 20 years ago to today. Houle->Savard->Gainey/Gauthier. Three distinct management groups. Three different owners. More than 7 coaches. There is no "we". The way each of those GMs attacked the league is their own distinct method and only falls on themselves, you can't credit Andre Savard for drafting Carey Price nor can you attack Houle for losing Robidas/Ribeiro/SKostitsyn. It doesn't work that way and you know it.
There is a pattern that has continued from one group to the next. Did they have to follow in each others' footsteps? No. Did I expect it to happen? No. But that's what's happened. We've avoided rebuilding like the plague and it's caught up to us. Sooner or later it had to happen and now it has. That was Stubbs' point and he was dead on right.
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
There is no "we".
As much as you want to bleieve this... you're out to lunch. Look nobody is claiming that PG is as bad as Houle was but the pattern of quick fix behaviour is still here. And that's why we are where we are.

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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
If you've ever read Stubbs' pieces you'd know that he's a rambling self-interested sports writer. He writes human-interest stories and is becoming increasingly two-faced. I heard him live on TSN TV, morose and downtrodden, about the "brutal" rebuild the team will have to partake. He's never said anything of the sort in his columns on H/IO.

If you keep trotting out "14th place" I can keep trotting out '1st in the east', '7 games against the cup winner', 'conference finalist'. You're cherry picking, it's childish.

Dude we're in 14th RIGHT NOW! That's not cherrypicking. That is our present situation man. And please... feel free to point to that one season because it sticks out like a sore thumb in a sea of mediocrity. Two out of the last three seasons (including this one) we'll have been a sub 90 point team. That's not good and we're also not seeing progression.

As for Stubbs'... I don't care about his other stuff. He's dead on right on what he's saying here. I definitely agree with him on this and he's got almost two decades of our failure to back him up.


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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You're doing what the media does: lump the blame and separate the praise. Good game? Price stole it. Bad game? This team lacks talent.

It doesn't work that way, everyone knows it. We have our franchise, generational player in Carey Price the rest of the pieces will fit in where they fit in but with Subban, Gorges, Patches, DD (yes, DD), and the young talent that's finally going to start graduating I'm not worried in the least.
You're not worried because you're happy with 8th place finishes.

As for our team... absolutely we have some great pieces in place. It's been a long, long time since we've had three players of Pac, PK and Price's ability. That is definitely reason for optimism and it's a great place to start. Please notice that of this trio, two out of the three were done via what I've suggested we do. Top five pick (Price) and rebuilding trade (Pac) that also included Gorges. All I'm saying is that we do MORE of this. We make a more concerted effort to land better picks.

Timmins is the best in the business and it's ridiculous that we don't give him more to work with. Stubbs' is right, the team should rebuild. But he's also wrong... he thinks we actually will... we won't. It will be more of the same. That's why I'm really, really hoping for a top pick this year. If that player pans out, it just might be good enough with what we have for down the road. At least I can pray that it will anyway.

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Old
02-22-2012, 10:42 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Those who believe the media doesn't have anything to do with the teams succes are out of touch from reality.
If we had better players, we'd have better teams. And if we had better teams, we'd get better press. We've had mediocre players making up mediocre teams and we're not nearly as respected around the league as we once were. Don't blame the press for this.

Nobody is saying that the Press shouldn't be better in Montreal. But to sluff off our failures on them is nothing more than excuse making. The Yankees play under far worse conditions, but they've got players like Jeter and ARod to fall back on. The game is played on the ice, not in the pressbox. If we had better players we'd have better teams. Simple as that.

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Old
02-23-2012, 04:14 AM
  #358
MasterDecoy
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*snip*
our drafting is better, our development is better, many things are better and gainey/gauthier deserve some credit for that.

but gauthier needs to get his ass kicked to the curb for one reason alone: the martin/cunneyworth and by connection, how he handled anything PR related.

he is bad beyond words at dealing with other human beings. seriously, i can't find the right adjective for it. in montreal, you need to show class (in all aspect of the franchise) and you need to be able to play the media like the children that they are. gauthier is so out of his league in that regard that, again, im at a loss for words to describe it....

but his record is definitely not as bad as many haters make it sound like.

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Old
02-23-2012, 09:07 AM
  #359
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i took in a Panthers game last week, along with 34 other people (youth sports club annual florida training camp).

We ended up with seats no further than 17 rows up from the glass, total for all 35 tickets = 22$/ticket.

22$ for lower bowl seats... 35 of them!

unreal.
Wow....jut wow. For $22 , I cant even park in the Bell center.

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Old
02-23-2012, 09:32 AM
  #360
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Habs have been run like the Maffia for many years. You would have to be blind to be a have been a Habs fan and not see it. Players from other teams have much more freedom to talk to the media and so forth. Habs has acted that way since forever probably started when Serge Savard was there. For management it was always "us against the World" and what it does is that it creates an air of suspiscion. Feels like management view journalist from a place of superiority and contempt. So when thing go back, the media are quick to attack them. It's even worse with Gauthier there's no connection with management and the hockey community. If you compare the Habs and the Sens for example, first thing Eugene Melnyck did when he joined the Sens, he opened up the training room for journalists so they would have ultimate access. the Sens are much more in sych with their community.
Really...?..The Mafia? Are we really going there?

In any event, I don't care, they have every right to do so.
Considering the quality of journalism covering the Habs, I can't blame them for limiting access. When you have a bunch of morons out there, I don't know why you'd give more of them access.
Also, I don't care how things are done in Long Island or Florida where there's nobody covering the team. Or even in Ottawa, where the team almost went bankrupt.
No place compares to Montreal. None.

So if they want to conduct themselves as the ''mob'', so be it. I don't consider that hiding.

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Old
02-23-2012, 10:09 AM
  #361
Lafleurs Guy
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Really...?..The Mafia? Are we really going there?.
Carbo flips the bird to a reporter and he sleeps with the fishes.
Roy shows up the President and rather than try to smooth things over we ice him.
Cammy speaks out and gets whacked less than 24 hours later.

Don't ever go against the family.

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Old
02-23-2012, 11:24 AM
  #362
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i was just watching game 3 of the flyers series in 2010 and man was the bell centre bumped

gave he chills

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