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Steve Ott to Vancouver

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Old
02-22-2012, 06:24 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by turkulad View Post
I'm not seeing it. Or maybe we does some potential, but ain't be filling any spots in the Nucks in the next 2 years in my mind. Sweatt and Schroeder are both closer, and we also have Jensen coming up.

We can let go of him if the trade results in an upgraded ice product on the bigs this season and the next, plus gives us room and a better build for our D. Robidas is paid like a premium third pair guy, Ballard's salary warrants a higher return in play, which I doubt he'd ever deliver in Van. Fits Dallas a lot better with Gogo/Fistric/Daley and a bunch of young blue-chippers battling for ice time.
Agreed we can trade anyone if it upgrades our team today.

That being said, Sweatt and Rodin aren't even comparable. Rodin actually has a good offensive ceiling whereas Sweatt really doesn't have the hands to do anything but be a depth forward in the NHL - but potentially a good one because of his speed.

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02-22-2012, 06:38 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Agreed we can trade anyone if it upgrades our team today.

That being said, Sweatt and Rodin aren't even comparable. Rodin actually has a good offensive ceiling whereas Sweatt really doesn't have the hands to do anything but be a depth forward in the NHL - but potentially a good one because of his speed.
Yup, they sure aren't comparable. Bill Sweatt could hopefully become MayRay 2.0 without the constant frustration he makes the fans go through, because there wouldn't be unfair expectations of him.

And sure, I realize that Anton Rodin has his potential still intact, but if a trade like this would depend on him being a part of him, I'd do it. I wouldn't switch him with Schroeder or Jensen, and no other forward prospect would garner enough interest to be a deal-breaker. So I think it's acceptable.

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02-22-2012, 06:47 AM
  #178
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I don't get why so many Canuck fans are interested in this guy... he's an overpaid 3rd liner who is undisciplined and takes stupid penalties all the time.

I'm only interested in Robidas from the Stars to be honest...

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02-22-2012, 11:43 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Henrik2Daniel View Post
I don't get why so many Canuck fans are interested in this guy... he's an overpaid 3rd liner who is undisciplined and takes stupid penalties all the time.

I'm only interested in Robidas from the Stars to be honest...
Raymond is paid much less then Ott and his worse at what he's doing now for us, just isn't a fit for the role we have him in....

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02-22-2012, 11:44 PM
  #180
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Also, Ott said he doesn't want to leave Dallas, and wants to be the solution there, rather then leaving. Pretty much kills this rumour since he has a NTC.

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02-22-2012, 11:45 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximLapierre View Post
Also, Ott said he doesn't want to leave Dallas, and wants to be the solution there, rather then leaving. Pretty much kills this rumour since he has a NTC.
He does not have a NTC. It was only for the first year of his contract.

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02-22-2012, 11:47 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by MaximLapierre View Post
Raymond is paid much less then Ott and his worse at what he's doing now for us, just isn't a fit for the role we have him in....
Okay, but that is irrelevant. Mason Raymond under-performing doesn't mean we should get an overpaid 3rd liner. The guy is getting paid nearly 3 million(cap hit) for another 2 seasons after this one. Keep in mind Hodgson, Edler, Burrows, Higgins, are all due for raises after next year.

I don't get how acquiring Ott is good for us. He isn't going to fit well into our disciplined system, and is going to give us an even worse reputation with the refs.

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02-22-2012, 11:50 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
He does not have a NTC. It was only for the first year of his contract.
Hmm, thanks CapGeek for the misleading info.

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02-22-2012, 11:51 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Henrik2Daniel View Post
I don't get how acquiring Ott is good for us. He isn't going to fit well into our disciplined system, and is going to give us an even worse reputation with the refs.
disregarding your complaints about cap hit etc witch are all valid i wanted to address this... ott is not a diver... if anything he would keep this from happening

He wouldn't let people screw with teammates like this

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02-22-2012, 11:54 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Henrik2Daniel View Post
Okay, but that is irrelevant. Mason Raymond under-performing doesn't mean we should get an overpaid 3rd liner. The guy is getting paid nearly 3 million(cap hit) for another 2 seasons after this one. Keep in mind Hodgson, Edler, Burrows, Higgins, are all due for raises after next year.

I don't get how acquiring Ott is good for us. He isn't going to fit well into our disciplined system, and is going to give us an even worse reputation with the refs.
LOL, Ott makes $400,000 more then Raymond, that's such an insignificant amount of money, especially when Raymond is an RFA needing more money.

Lapierre bought in to our system, and look how good he's been. I bet you were saying the same thing about him not being a good fit, but hey, look at him now. Ott is what we need, Raymond isn't a fit in Vancouver anymore, and he's not overpaid, $400,000 is not enough money to have fits about.

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02-22-2012, 11:58 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik2Daniel View Post
Okay, but that is irrelevant. Mason Raymond under-performing doesn't mean we should get an overpaid 3rd liner. The guy is getting paid nearly 3 million(cap hit) for another 2 seasons after this one. Keep in mind Hodgson, Edler, Burrows, Higgins, are all due for raises after next year.

I don't get how acquiring Ott is good for us. He isn't going to fit well into our disciplined system, and is going to give us an even worse reputation with the refs.
400k is not something to fret about.
If the Canucks need to free up cap space to keep players signed in the future, they can move Ballard (bottom pairing d-man for us) and Malhotra (4th liner for us) for a total of $6.7 mil.

Ott is more physical than Raymond, and can play center and win faceoffs if needed. The physicality will be needed in the playoffs.
Lapierre has become much more disciplined since becoming a Canuck. If the Canucks can tame Lapierre, they can tame Ott.

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Old
02-23-2012, 12:54 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by turkulad View Post
Yup, they sure aren't comparable. Bill Sweatt could hopefully become MayRay 2.0 without the constant frustration he makes the fans go through, because there wouldn't be unfair expectations of him.

And sure, I realize that Anton Rodin has his potential still intact, but if a trade like this would depend on him being a part of him, I'd do it. I wouldn't switch him with Schroeder or Jensen, and no other forward prospect would garner enough interest to be a deal-breaker. So I think it's acceptable.
Expectations for Raymond isn't even fair. Both are 2nd round picks not first rounders and its not like Raymond spent much time in the AHL so he really didn't get a chance to work on his game as much as he should (blame DN for that maybe). Look at how little time Raymond spent in the AHL compared to say jordan schroeder under MG. Not everyone is like Kesler (who btw was a 1st rounder) and able to play a defensive game then develop an offensive game out of no where (tho you could argue its also a Sundin effect).

As far as salary, its not 400,000. Raymond is a RFA after this season. His contract was 2 years ago based on a 53 point season (25 goal) breakout year while being a responsible 2 way winger. At that time not only did he have a career year but he also didn't get hurt. The 2 seasons during his contract, he combined for 53 points (21 goals) in 105 games (vs 82) and battled injuries. Needless to say his value now is lower than 2 years ago and he'll likely make sub 2 million (even as a UFA). The next 2 seasons, the difference likely will be 1 mil.

I don't really mind trading Rodin given there's no way schroeder, sweatt, and rodin all can make the team even if they are good enough. At least 2 of them (if they ever become NHL ready) will likely need to find a NHL spot elsewhere. There just isn't a lot of openings on the 'nucks roster in the near future.

First line is set unless we don't resign Burrows (unlikely given Burrows will/have taken a discount here and would stay). 2nd line has a spot but Hodgson likely claims it. Leaving only spots on the 3rd line if Lappy/Higgins/Hansen aren't resigned. None of those players are 4th liners. Leaving a max of 3 spots 2 seasons (likely less given some of them will be resigned or vets bought in to replace them).

Out of those 3, Sweatt likely is the worst player of the bunch but also most NHL ready due to likely being the best defensive player of the bunch with high end NHL speed already. His production will likely be by far the worst so he's more or less another Hansen (if he develops as expected). Rodin is a project prospect who can develop to be a decent player or just be a career AHLer. Schroeder has the highest expectation and skillset but is at least another season away. His value is likely quite a bit higher than the other 2 and on par with Jensen (who seems to be close to NHL ready but likely will spend a lot of time in the AHL due to how MG follows the Wings system of developing players).

The Robidas, Ott proposal is interesting but my question is what are the NTC terms for Robidas. We likely don't have room for him in 2 seasons when we need to resign Elder (and when its likely that both Kcon and Tanev are ready).

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Old
02-23-2012, 01:21 AM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denkiteki View Post
Expectations for Raymond isn't even fair. Both are 2nd round picks not first rounders and its not like Raymond spent much time in the AHL so he really didn't get a chance to work on his game as much as he should (blame DN for that maybe). Look at how little time Raymond spent in the AHL compared to say jordan schroeder under MG. Not everyone is like Kesler (who btw was a 1st rounder) and able to play a defensive game then develop an offensive game out of no where (tho you could argue its also a Sundin effect).
I stopped reading after this because of how you kept referring to players as 1st or 2nd rounders. So by that logic, now, Barker should be an all-star and Datsyuk should be a 4th line plug. Some players bust, some grow out of nowhere. Fyi, Raymond is frustrating because he kills offensive chances, doesn't use his speed properly, and keeps on tripping over the damn blue-line. He's frustrating because he has the tools to be so much better than how he's playing.

Btw, just to clarify. It's unfair to expect Raymond to be a 50 point player on the second line? Because that's what's expected of him. He has 14 points in 35 games, and 7 of those came in the first 9 he played. You can't honestly tell me he's not underachieving.

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