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#61: Kings @ Avalanche, 2/22/12, 4-1 Loss

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02-23-2012, 01:37 AM
  #101
Bandit
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Depressing stat of that day: Erik Karlsson, a 21 year old defenseman, is outscoring Kopitar by 9 points.

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02-23-2012, 01:40 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
Depressing stat of that day: Erik Karlsson, a 21 year old defenseman, is outscoring Kopitar by 9 points.
maybe we should get his brother Jens

Just out of curiosity, all those saying DS is a bonehead for putting in Quick. Do you think we'd win the game scoring only one goal? i think u'r missing the point with this team...

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02-23-2012, 01:44 AM
  #103
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I'm gonna go on a bit of a tangent here.

At the beginning of the season, everyone was saying, if the team doesn't make the second round, the coach should go. Some were saying that Lombardi should follow. Most thought the team was solid enough to do what was required even still.

Then in the middle, when we were out of a playoff spot, it was time for Murray to go, and if we didn't get into the playoffs, maybe Lombardi should too.

Now it's getting down to the stretch run, we're out of the playoffs, and people are saying if we don't get in Lombardi has to leave.

I'm not seeing a big swing in opinion here. It's fairly consistent. Most of the people on this board were thinking the team would have a good year, but that if it didn't, people were going to have to pay the price. And now it's not a good year and people are posting accordingly. The opinions being posted now aren't surprising nor are they really doom and glooming. The reality of the situation is that the team isn't having a good year. Somebody's head will be taken off by the sword if the team doesn't get into the playoffs. Everyone would like the team to be in the playoffs, although they may not be happy with our playoff position or with Lombardi maintaining his job. I thought it was second round or bust for him this year, I hope as far as hope goes that we get in that second round, but it isn't looking good.

This isn't anything we all didn't already feel like we'd believe if it actually came to reality. Having expectations, and then getting mad when they aren't met, is not a crime.

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02-23-2012, 01:47 AM
  #104
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Good post LITN,

But I disagree about one thing. If just making the playoffs is going to save Dean Lombardi and this awful system for another season I would rather not make the playoffs than sneak in and get dusted by Detroit or Vancouver.

The ultimate goal is winning championships, and while missing the playoffs would suck, it might actually get the team closer to a championship than finishing 8th would.

The thought of another season of Lombardi hockey has me nauseous.


Last edited by Herby: 02-23-2012 at 01:53 AM.
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02-23-2012, 01:49 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Leonard Washington View Post
Oh shut up man why do you even cheer for this team if you think it's so god awful? Our team is SOLID, we just can't put it together to win and we need to change our system to adjust to our players and retool our depth a bit. Jesus overreaction must?
Why do people equate criticism of a team with not being a fan?

EVERYONE HERE, taking the time to post on a team message board, is a fan. I happen to believe that the fans who voice complaints about the team do so because they care about the team A LOT.

If you want to be naive and pretend that this team is "solid" (my sh** is solid as well), then go right ahead. I prefer to look at this team realistically and see that they are a bad team right now that needs some serious help.

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02-23-2012, 01:49 AM
  #106
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If the team got smashed in the playoffs AEG would get rid of DL anyway. That's my .02. Looking like an embarrassment will not be an option.

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02-23-2012, 01:50 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
maybe we should get his brother Jens

Just out of curiosity, all those saying DS is a bonehead for putting in Quick. Do you think we'd win the game scoring only one goal? i think u'r missing the point with this team...
Just because we only scored one goal doesn't suddenly make DS's decision to start Quick a good idea.

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02-23-2012, 01:50 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Good post LITN,

But I disagree about one thing. If just making the playoffs is going to save Dean Lombardi and this awful system for another season I would rather not make the playoffs than sneak in and get dusted by Detroit or Vancouver.

The ultimate goal is winning championships, and while missing the playoffs would suck, it might actually get the team closer to a championship than finishing 8th would.

The thought of another season of Lombardi hockey has be nauseous.
X2

I suppose it could be a Flyers type thing (via 2007) to a lesser degree in terms of the standings, where we just need to straighten out our issues. I am just soooo tired of watching these boring games.

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02-23-2012, 01:52 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Why do people equate criticism of a team with not being a fan?

EVERYONE HERE, taking the time to post on a team message board, is a fan. I happen to believe that the fans who voice complaints about the team do so because they care about the team A LOT.

If you want to be naive and pretend that this team is "solid" (my sh** is solid as well), then go right ahead. I prefer to look at this team realistically and see that they are a bad team right now that needs some serious help.
I say that because I rarely see him say anything positive about the team, not that there is much positive to say. But I mean in the time I have been here, not just this season. Not a slight against him I just like to see SOME faith.

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02-23-2012, 01:53 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Leonard Washington View Post
Gagne who was meant to help our scoring is hurt, Penner is terrible, Stoll is awful, all were meant to help our scoring. How is Lombardi supposed to predict something like that to happen? We all thought this team was going to be so great to start the year, **** happens and our depth isn't strong enough to handle it.
Yeah, that sounds REAL solid.

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02-23-2012, 01:56 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Yeah, that sounds REAL solid.
You don't think before literally everyone on our team started underachieving (I wonder why? Perhaps our retarded overly defensive system?) that we didn't have a solid roster on paper? Righttt..

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02-23-2012, 01:56 AM
  #112
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Deano has not drafted a top 6-quality forward in his tenure as the GM. Well, you can say Simmonds is one now, but he's doing it for another team.


Last edited by Vamos Rafa: 02-23-2012 at 02:04 AM.
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02-23-2012, 01:57 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Washington View Post
I say that because I rarely see him say anything positive about the team, not that there is much positive to say. But I mean in the time I have been here, not just this season. Not a slight against him I just like to see SOME faith.
I get that. You want to see people being positive. And when you go through the GDT's and see the reactions after we score a goal, you will see a full page or two of "atta-boy"s. So the positivity is there. No need to blow smoke up people's ***** and try to convince them that this team is good.

At the end of the day we are all fans.

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02-23-2012, 01:58 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Leonard Washington View Post
You don't think before literally everyone on our team started underachieving (I wonder why? Perhaps our retarded overly defensive system?) that we didn't have a solid roster on paper? Righttt..
You originally said this team is solid now. Not on paper, before the season began.

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02-23-2012, 02:00 AM
  #115
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After the way Penner ended up last season it was a gamble to count on him for anything.

Stoll was a 15-20 goal guy despite being ridiculously overused both at ES and on the PP. He was a poor 2nd line center who doesn't have the all around game to be a contributing bottom line player. Anyone who has followed this team closely should have known Stoll would suck in this role. He should have been traded when Richards was brought in and the Kings should have looked for a real 3rd line center. But instead Lombardi makes his bed with this guy, even calling him a "culture changer" on a Toronto radio station.

Players like Penner and Stoll have fizzled before and it would have been nice to have players in the pipeline who could have filled in and contributed a few goals here and there. But Dean has spent the better part of 6 seasons using most of his high draft picks on defenseman and "character" players. Again you reap what you sow.

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02-23-2012, 02:01 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
You originally said this team is solid now. Not on paper, before the season began.
We're on pace to being one of the worst scoring teams in NHL history, and yet we're still in the playoff picture. You don't think if we were playing a better system we'd be a solid team? I certainly do.

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02-23-2012, 02:02 AM
  #117
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Can someone tell me what system? Played hockey for 25 years of my life in 2 countries. I see all around confusion here...
Fact is there is no system!
Another fact is there are a bunch of players playing on an LA Kings team that are really not NHL Hockey players. Trevor Lewis, Dwight King, Jordan Nolan(though I think he could be) Alec Martinez, Brad Richardson.
New coach is so perplexed at old methods it is difficult to measure which way is best to go with this team... Then he has to measure the pressure from the GM who's job is on the line. Protecting the guy that hired him yet protecting himself at the same time.
Darryl Sutter is not stupid though. He has protected himself and moved forward with the team Dean Lombardi has sequestered...
On top of that he has serious NHL players that could get traded.
"LA's System" is very much on the verge of collapse... come to think of it... it could be the best thing.

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02-23-2012, 02:04 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Washington View Post
You don't think before literally everyone on our team started underachieving (I wonder why? Perhaps our retarded overly defensive system?) that we didn't have a solid roster on paper? Righttt..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Washington View Post
We're on pace to being one of the worst scoring teams in NHL history, and yet we're still in the playoff picture. You don't think if we were playing a better system we'd be a solid team? I certainly do.
Do you enjoy contradicting yourself?

First we're solid now. Then you backtrack and say we were solid on paper before the season began.

Then you say we have a retarded defensive system, yet you acknowledge it's the only reason why we are in the playoff hunt.

C'mon.

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02-23-2012, 02:06 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
Another fact is there are a bunch of players playing on an LA Kings team that are really not NHL Hockey players. Trevor Lewis, Dwight King, Jordan Nolan(though I think he could be) Alec Martinez, Brad Richardson.
Add Clifford, Westgarth, and Fraser to that list. Neither of them should be in the NHL.

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02-23-2012, 02:06 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
If the team got smashed in the playoffs AEG would get rid of DL anyway. That's my .02. Looking like an embarrassment will not be an option.
I just don't trust AEG to hire the next GM...that's the problem I have. Lombardi has a lot of hockey sense, and is the first GM LA has had that built a proper prospect system. I'd be all for bringing in the Assistant GM of the Red Wings to LA, and he can continue a similar philosophy of drafting and using prospects in LA.

Oddly enough this looks a lot like the way Dean's tenure in San Jose ended. Read this article on the explanation by the then SJ Owner....very eerie....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hoc...rdi_sharks_ap/

Quote:
Jamison believed the Sharks' above-average payroll was too much to spend for a non-contending team, and he was thought to be the impetus behind both Sutter's firing and the salary-dumping trades Lombardi made in recent weeks.

"We didn't get off to a good start, and we continued to play subpar hockey," Jamison said. "It just didn't seem to work. There's a lot of different guesses, suggestions, input as to what happened, but at the end of the day, it was very much an underperforming team."
Makes me wonder if AEG will force Dean to shed some salary at the deadline.

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02-23-2012, 02:07 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Do you enjoy contradicting yourself?

First we're solid now. Then you backtrack and say we were solid on paper before the season began.

Then you say we have a retarded defensive system, yet you acknowledge it's the only reason why we are in the playoff hunt.

C'mon.
How did I contradict myself at all? I said we were a solid team, you're picking out bits and pieces. We are a solid team (that means roster if you didn't catch that) in the wrong system as I've said probably about 10 times. When did I say our system was the only reason we were in the playoff race either? I said we were still in the playoff hunt despite being one of the lowest scoring teams in the league, hence why our roster is SOLID. Do I need to explain myself again or do you get that?

C'mon.

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02-23-2012, 02:10 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
I just don't trust AEG to hire the next GM...that's the problem I have. Lombardi has a lot of hockey sense, and is the first GM LA has had that built a proper prospect system. I'd be all for bringing in the Assistant GM of the Red Wings to LA, and he can continue a similar philosophy of drafting and using prospects in LA.

Oddly enough this looks a lot like the way Dean's tenure in San Jose ended. Read this article on the explanation by the then SJ Owner....very eerie....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hoc...rdi_sharks_ap/



Makes me wonder if AEG will force Dean to shed some salary at the deadline.
How would you react to Ron Hextall being promoted to replace Lombardi? Similar styles perhaps, but maybe fewer ties to old coaches/players. Maybe less stubborn.

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02-23-2012, 02:13 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Lombardi has a lot of hockey sense, and is the first GM LA has had that built a proper prospect system.
This is not a flame, I truly respect your opinion and find you a quality poster.

But what makes you think he has hockey sense and has built this system the right way.

The Kings have yet to draft and develop a scoring line player since he took over, and realistically no one is close right now. This team has awful trouble scoring goals and the best they can come up with to call up is Dwight King and Jordan Nolan. That tells me the prospect system is not well built.

As for hockey sense, considering Dean thinks tight checking 2-1 hockey is the way to go and he has had 6 seasons to build his baby it makes me think he has zero hockey sense, especially when it comes to post lockout hockey. I just don't buy the BS cliches, pie charts etc. This thing is going down just like it did for him in SJ because he clearly has no clue how to build a successful hockey team. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. And certain Lombardi apologists on this site have said before how Dean failed in SJ because he had to shed payroll, when in reality it had already fallen apart before Dean was forced to shed salary. Ironically almost a decade later, many fans of this team would love to see payroll unloaded at this deadline rather than trying to add a piece that may get us into the 8th seed.

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02-23-2012, 02:15 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
How would you react to Ron Hextall being promoted to replace Lombardi? Similar styles perhaps, but maybe fewer ties to old coaches/players. Maybe less stubborn.
Ron Hextell was always a fiery competitor; he doesn't strike me as the patient/conservative type. In terms of GM style I think he'd be more like Bobby Clarke than Dean Lombardi.

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02-23-2012, 02:17 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
Depressing stat of that day: Erik Karlsson, a 21 year old defenseman, is outscoring Kopitar by 9 points.
...who is outscoring next best King by 11 points and third best King by 19 points...

I'll write something from my outside perspective about Kings. I watch Kings last few years closely because of Kopitar. I wake many nights to watch them live before I go to work. And I completly understand all frustrations that die-hard Kings fans have right now because of this team.

But I do not think this team has no talent to be at top of the league. I just see this season as the one, where almost nothing is going right. Almost all players have a bad year. And in that case usually most players bounce back next season.

Question right now is if it would be good at all to sneak in eight place into play-off or not to reach play-off. If they sneak in and then maybe play good in play-off it can be quickly forgotten everything that has happened during this season. And the problems could stay. If they'll stey out of play-off then it will be long summer to think what went wrong and how to avoid this next season.

I don't think it would be ok to rip appart this team or go to semi-rebuilding as many here suggest. I expect next season will be bounce back year for most of the players on this team. Because usually it is so. And it would be a shame, if they would bounce back in another team.

If we talk about Kopitar. It is not a question at all that he has bad season. He admited that themselves for Slovenian national TV one week ago. He had a great start and carried whole team on his back for first 20 games or so. At one point after around 20 games he had a goal or an assist on 65% of all kings goals. but this is not normal stat. Kings would have the same results (one or zero scored goals on most games) at the beginning of the season without Kopis production as they have now when he is having much more problems with his game and production. And I don't think at all trading him would do good to Kings. Because last years play-off and this season is clear sign, how dependent this team is from Kopis production. And I'm pretty sure that there are not many players in NHL, that would produce better on nightly basis than Kopi. And for sure not the ones that some here would like to trade Kopi for in their trade suggestions.

So i believe for this team it would be the best not to reach play-off this season. In this case I forecast great next season and top four place at the end of next season before play-off. Sometime you need to go one step back before you are able to do two steps forward.

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