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"Aww, that's Nash-ty." Nash Rumors Part V: McKenzie says down to Rangers/Sharks

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Old
02-23-2012, 11:07 AM
  #676
Jersey Girl
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With guys like Stepan, McDonagh, Del Zotto, Hagelin, Anisimov, Girardi, and even Callahan and Lundqvist still improving every year, the best days for this team are STILL ahead of them.

And we are at the top of the league RIGHT NOW, not fighting for a playoff spot.

This team should continue to get better. I do not see any reason to pay an elite-level price for a non-elite player like Rick Nash.

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02-23-2012, 11:08 AM
  #677
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I'm taking a different angle from the discussion of assets to trade for Nash, and fitting him into the salary cap, to ask a much more fundamental question:

Why do we need Rick Nash?

Tell me why I'm wrong. Please.
Rick Nash has the speed, size, and hands. He's the total package and is certainly an elite, top 10 NHL player. He's wasted most of his career playing for nothing important and seems motivated to play for something that matters. The Rangers have one of the best Goalies and Defenses in the NHL. They lack scoring so yea, the Rangers could greatly use him.

For me, the only issue is the Cap hit. Love Dubi and our depth of prospects but Dubi, Erixon and a pick will get it done and this team will be instantly better. If we can make it work with the Cap, its a no-brainer... but thats a BIG if...

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02-23-2012, 11:08 AM
  #678
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No. I'll run the math for you in a few moments. You can afford to keep Dubinksy for 2012-13, and you get assets for him in the 2013 offseason. It's a win/win.
There is no math you can do that will prove we can fit Parise and Dubinsky on this team next year without moving other salary.

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02-23-2012, 11:08 AM
  #679
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
Aside from 2 down years he's been in than the Top 20 for goals scored every season...on a really crappy team.
That's an excellent point about Nash. When you play for a lousy organization/team that's made the playoffs exactly one time in 10 years, it's hard to be motivated to play hard every game. That being said, I believe Rick Nash would add a lot to our team offensively BUT I would only do the deal at the right price which to me means either Dubi or Anni(preferably Anni) off the roster + WW(salary dump), Thomas, another prospect(not named Kreider, McI, Erickson or Miller) + a 1st; that's it and that's all!!

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02-23-2012, 11:09 AM
  #680
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Oh, well then you fold the team. Clearly this group of players are incapable of being a competitive hockey team, and in 1 year they will be that much closer to retirement.

What a disaster it would be...
Aside from the pointless rebuttal, this team struggles to generate
offense, our PP continues to be an embarrassment, why would we not look to add another top offensive piece?

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02-23-2012, 11:10 AM
  #681
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That may very well be. Maybe I am wrong here, but teams like Detroit, always seem to trade for complimentary pieces, as opposed to center pieces. Maybe I am not rememberign something.

My reasons for fearing this trade are documented. Just seems like too many negative variables.
No team operates like Detroit. They are an anomaly. Their franchise players are late round picks. And, they just tossed away a #1 pick for Kyle Quincey. The players who are #1 picks on that team are Todd Bertuzzi, a player who resuscitated his career there, Brad Stuart and Dan Cleary, to former busts who found their respective games there, and Niklas Kronwall, probably the best #1 pick they've made in a long time.

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02-23-2012, 11:12 AM
  #682
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Something tells me Brandon Dubinsky will play his two best games of the season on Friday and Saturday!!!

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02-23-2012, 11:12 AM
  #683
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
There is no math you can do that will prove we can fit Parise and Dubinsky on this team next year without moving other salary.
Then refer to my breakdown on the previous page.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=647

Not advocating that direction, as that direction is extremely rigid, but it actually can work (even w/ Parise at an inflated 7.8 million).

A 20 man roster, but it includes more expensive pieces like Erixon at 1.75, Rupp at 1.5, as well as a full season of Kreider @ 1.75.


Last edited by frozenrubber: 02-23-2012 at 11:20 AM.
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02-23-2012, 11:12 AM
  #684
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I wonder if they have any interest in Hagelin. He hasn't been mentioned a lot (if at all) so far, but I'd wager that they'd want him instead of Anisimov. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a player going the other way

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02-23-2012, 11:14 AM
  #685
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Aside from the pointless rebuttal, this team struggles to generate
offense, our PP continues to be an embarrassment, why would we not look to add another top offensive piece?
Some of us are skeptical Nash is the kind of 'top' offensive piece that will make much of a difference considering what he costs.

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02-23-2012, 11:16 AM
  #686
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Something tells me Brandon Dubinsky will play his two best games of the season on Friday and Saturday!!!
I get the feeling that if we don't find some offense on the island(fri) and vs the swords(sat), u may be right. Geez, I really love Dubi bc his game epitomizes the way this team plays under Torts. The fact that he's home-grown and has sad puppy dog eyes makes it that much harder to see him leave.

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02-23-2012, 11:18 AM
  #687
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Moving Gaborik alleviates the cap issues.

Kreider slides in next to his buddy Stepan. Nash goes next to Richards. Callahan is in that mix.

Stepan,McD and DZ are the must keeps. Hagelin is in there too.

Anisimov could be expendable to make the other dollars work. The Rangers could get something for him at the end of his contract. The Rangers could be holding Miller back to replace AA. Miller can play wing and center.

Sauer is a question mark b/c of his health.

The Rangers do have good pieces to wheel off in Gaborik and AA to relieve any cap issues. Get back young players and picks.
You cant write off Gaborik without seeing what he does in the deep playoffs. If Gabby pulls a John Druce, it makes it harder to justify getting rid of him.

He's got 2-plus seasons left. He's still going to be in his prime at the end of the deal.

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02-23-2012, 11:19 AM
  #688
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Some of us are skeptical Nash is the kind of 'top' offensive piece that will make much of a difference considering what he costs.
I was referring to a top offensive threat in general. I happen to think that Nash would help, but by no
Means am I in the Nash or bust camp

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02-23-2012, 11:19 AM
  #689
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
The cap hit is a dicey situation. They built this team correctly and I am loathe to see it dismantled for cap reasons.

I go back to Nash and his ability to play in the spot light. Playing as the franchise player in Columbus is NOT playing that role in NY. People see his size and think that they are getting some kind of physical beast. That he is not. He may not be Malik, but he is certainly not going to throw his weight around. And if he wilts, then the boos start and there is no reversing them. People will see a huge forward that does not use his body and take up LOTS of cap room.

I think that messing with chemistry is a tricky thing. Part of what makes this team is that everyone plays in line with what Torts wants. And he holds everyone accountable. Is Nash and his $7.8m salary really ready to follow the lead of Callahan? Is he ready to play "defense first"? Will Torts hold his mega star to the same accountability level for not thinking "defense-first" as he does with the rest of the team? Of if he does not battle the same way?

Please tell me about this spotlight on hockey in NY that you refer to, because I'm really interested since this team hasn't gotten a back page all season. The Rangers ain't the Yankees when it comes to media coverage, heck as we've seen the last 2 weeks they aren't even the Knicks...spotlight in the NHL is a Canadian market.

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02-23-2012, 11:20 AM
  #690
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And, if the chemistry of this team is so fragile that adding a Nash will cause them to crumble, then maybe, that chemistry isn't that great after all.
not quite that simple. You are talking about moving a major locker room presence and importing someone who is a franchise player. Or supposed to be one. That greatly changes the dynamic. Do you see Nash following Callahan & co? Also, and this cannot be stated enough, EVERY single player falls in line. They ALL play the way that Torts wants them to play. There is no deviation at all. If they deviate, they are gone. Look at Wolski. They are ALL held 100% accountable and there is not one player that escapes Torts. Now import a $7.8m Nash. Is he willing to play "defense-first" and subjugate his offense? Is he willing to be like every one else and battle for every square inch? Or is he hanging at the blue line, and not back checking?

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02-23-2012, 11:24 AM
  #691
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
Please tell me about this spotlight on hockey in NY that you refer to, because I'm really interested since this team hasn't gotten a back page all season. The Rangers ain't the Yankees when it comes to media coverage, heck as we've seen the last 2 weeks they aren't even the Knicks...spotlight in the NHL is a Canadian market.
LOL I don't want Nash at the price and cap it that is being mentioned, but I agree with this. Marian Gaborik can walk through Manhattan with a Christmas tree even WITH an HBO camera crew, and nobody bats an eyelash or knows who he is.

If Gaborik were playing in Toronto or Vancouver (or probably any Canadian city), he could not even leave the house in peace.

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02-23-2012, 11:24 AM
  #692
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
Please tell me about this spotlight on hockey in NY that you refer to, because I'm really interested since this team hasn't gotten a back page all season. The Rangers ain't the Yankees when it comes to media coverage, heck as we've seen the last 2 weeks they aren't even the Knicks...spotlight in the NHL is a Canadian market.
The Rangers may not be the Yankees and NY is not Canada, but you are fooling yoruself if you think that there is no pressure or a spotlight. This is NY, you are not hiding from anyone. Look at all of the names that have been imported here, just to fail. Playing for the Rangers brings a pressure and a spotlight all on it's own. You are under more lights as a complimentary player in NY, than as a Captain in Columbus.

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02-23-2012, 11:25 AM
  #693
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But if we get Nash and win the cup this year or next isn't it all worth it? We're giving away a little bit of the future for a guy who's a captain and a 1st line sniper who can dominate with a playmaker like Stepan or Richards. Cap hit is horrendous but if we win it's all worth it IMHO

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02-23-2012, 11:25 AM
  #694
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"The Door Test" (Bronx tale) If Nash comes to the Rangers wth that salary, should he let Jeff Woywitka pick up the check for losing in credit card roulette?

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02-23-2012, 11:28 AM
  #695
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What can I possibly say that hasn't already been said. Just doing my part to push this to thread #6. Glad I could help.

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02-23-2012, 11:28 AM
  #696
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Nash isn't coming here to be "The Man"

Nash isn't coming to the Rangers to play the same role he was playing in Columbus.

We have Callahan, Gaborik, Richards and Lundqvist to play THAT role.

Nash is coming ot the Rangers to do what he does best, score goals.

There's no pressure to be the man here in NY because that's not the role he is being asked to fill.

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02-23-2012, 11:29 AM
  #697
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
You cant write off Gaborik without seeing what he does in the deep playoffs. If Gabby pulls a John Druce, it makes it harder to justify getting rid of him.

He's got 2-plus seasons left. He's still going to be in his prime at the end of the deal.
I agree with you about Gabby as it relates to this year's playoffs. Too bad timing is everything in life because going forward I would be inclined to move Gabby to fit in a much younger, physically bigger goal scorer like Nash.
At the least, I certainly wouldn't be inclined to re-up Gabby when his contract expires in 2014 assuming he's still here because of the cap issues we will face at that time.

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02-23-2012, 11:32 AM
  #698
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Rick Nash much like every other homegrown CLB player hasn't been held accountable or challenged in the way Torts challenges his players. He like Brassard and co, didn't have to earn their roster spot, ice time, huge contract, etc etc. When Nash has been pushed as he has been in several international tourneys, the guy is a dominant force. He is a match up nightmare. Remember he was playing a checking role in the '10 Olympics, and he excelled. Does he do that game in and game out, shift in and shift out in NY? He better if he wants to play here.

There aren't too many defensmen out there that can stop him one on one. If a trade is made, ideally without giving up an identity player outside of Dubi, then the deal is a major win. All Nash needs to do finish a few checks with the ferocity that he can to win the fans over. Something that I've only seen him do when he is either mad, or playing for Canada. Once he wears Ranger blue, this will be expected of him every time he is on the ice. Do you guys think Nash has it in him to that?

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02-23-2012, 11:32 AM
  #699
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Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
"The Door Test" (Bronx tale) If Nash comes to the Rangers wth that salary, should he let Jeff Woywitka pick up the check for losing in credit card roulette?
The "Door Test" is one of the all time classics!

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02-23-2012, 11:39 AM
  #700
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Nash isn't coming here to be "The Man"

Nash isn't coming to the Rangers to play the same role he was playing in Columbus.

We have Callahan, Gaborik, Richards and Lundqvist to play THAT role.

Nash is coming ot the Rangers to do what he does best, score goals.

There's no pressure to be the man here in NY because that's not the role he is being asked to fill.

That's the way I see it. I was in the anti-Nash camp at the start of this process, but, after looking at these type of deals historically, and seeing what the average rate of return is, and then seeing the Rangers basically offering that historic rate of return, gives me confidence going forward. And, I keep going back to what Schoenfeld said last year about adding "elite" pieces. Nash is on the same level as both Gaborik and Richards, so adding Nash fits in with the Ranger blueprint of building this team. The pieces they potentially are moving do not deplete the depth of the organization, nor do the rob the organization of irreplaceable assets. This is the type of deal that many of us talked about the Rangers making when they had this kind of depth in the organization. They've identified the important pieces to keep, namely McD, MDZ, Kreider and Miller. IMO, this is the time to make this kind of deal, and in many ways, it's similar to the Pens getting Hossa a few years back.

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