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Old
01-24-2006, 08:59 AM
  #1
Phailak
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Veterans

In my opinion, we're paying for having so many unexperienced players on the team, in more ways than one. I love to see the rookies play, but rookies can't speak up in the locker room. Think about the veterans that have more than 2 seasons of experience on our team:
Saku Koivu
Alex Kovalev
Richard Zednik
Radek Bonk
Jan Bulis
Niklas Sundstrum

Sheldon Souray
Craig Rivet
Andrei Markov
Francis Bouillon
Mathieu Dandenault

The rest are rookies or players like Ribs and Ryder in their second full season or players with little impact in a dressing room. That's very little experience to deal with situations such as long losing streaks, a goaltender in a major slump with 0 confidence or blowout games like we just had. It doesn't help that we've lost so many leads in the third period, so many games by 1 goal.
We wanted rookies, we wanted to rebuild, these are the consequences. Bright side of all this is our future looks good, IF we can surround our young guys with solid players that know how to win...

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Old
01-24-2006, 09:10 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phailak
In my opinion, we're paying for having so many unexperienced players on the team, in more ways than one. I love to see the rookies play, but rookies can't speak up in the locker room. Think about the veterans that have more than 2 seasons of experience on our team:
Saku Koivu
Alex Kovalev
Richard Zednik
Radek Bonk
Jan Bulis
Niklas Sundstrum

Sheldon Souray
Craig Rivet
Andrei Markov
Francis Bouillon
Mathieu Dandenault

The rest are rookies or players like Ribs and Ryder in their second full season or players with little impact in a dressing room. That's very little experience to deal with situations such as long losing streaks, a goaltender in a major slump with 0 confidence or blowout games like we just had. It doesn't help that we've lost so many leads in the third period, so many games by 1 goal.
We wanted rookies, we wanted to rebuild, these are the consequences. Bright side of all this is our future looks good, IF we can surround our young guys with solid players that know how to win...

The problem is that our rookies (Plekanec, Higgins, Kostitsyn) are working harder than our vets.. Plekanec is actually better than Koivu and Kostitsyn more overall effective than Kovalev.. At some point the vets have to step up with pride and be our best players.. Not even talking about Zednik, Bonk, Sundstrom... A guy like Coté would do better than Dandeneault or Streit and Beauchemin would be our #2 #3 defenseman if still in the org. Rivet doesnt play good hockey lately, miss Markov so badly..

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Old
01-24-2006, 09:39 AM
  #3
Phailak
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Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
The problem is that our rookies (Plekanec, Higgins, Kostitsyn) are working harder than our vets.. Plekanec is actually better than Koivu and Kostitsyn more overall effective than Kovalev.. At some point the vets have to step up with pride and be our best players.. Not even talking about Zednik, Bonk, Sundstrom... A guy like Coté would do better than Dandeneault or Streit and Beauchemin would be our #2 #3 defenseman if still in the org. Rivet doesnt play good hockey lately, miss Markov so badly..
Well I don't agree with that. Our best player yesterday was without a doubt Pleks, but overall they have not been playing better than the vets. Maybe when you consider ice time and the fact they are rookies then you could say they are giving us more than what we can expect, but 15 points in over 30 games for Pleks, 14 in over 40 games for Higgins and 12 in 36 for Perez isn't good enough to replace the top guys. I think Perez was doing good on the first line in production, but to take a veteran's place you have to do better. Pleks has done great considering his ice time and I'd maybe risk Ribs spot for him, but should we put the pressure of a second line center on him already? I think we should have only 1 rookie on the top two lines and even that is pushing it if you consider Ryder and Ribs are there. Higgins had his shot on the top two lines, and he was playing well but the production wasn't there.
Of course their production is directly tied to their ice time, but you don't know if more ice time and responsabilities is going to hurt them or benefit them, you know what a veteran can do and he "should" not falter if he doesn't produce for a few games. A rookie going on a 12 game slump might hurt his confidence for a while...

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Old
01-24-2006, 12:50 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phailak
Well I don't agree with that. Our best player yesterday was without a doubt Pleks, but overall they have not been playing better than the vets. Maybe when you consider ice time and the fact they are rookies then you could say they are giving us more than what we can expect, but 15 points in over 30 games for Pleks, 14 in over 40 games for Higgins and 12 in 36 for Perez isn't good enough to replace the top guys. I think Perez was doing good on the first line in production, but to take a veteran's place you have to do better. Pleks has done great considering his ice time and I'd maybe risk Ribs spot for him, but should we put the pressure of a second line center on him already? I think we should have only 1 rookie on the top two lines and even that is pushing it if you consider Ryder and Ribs are there. Higgins had his shot on the top two lines, and he was playing well but the production wasn't there.
Of course their production is directly tied to their ice time, but you don't know if more ice time and responsabilities is going to hurt them or benefit them, you know what a veteran can do and he "should" not falter if he doesn't produce for a few games. A rookie going on a 12 game slump might hurt his confidence for a while...
I quite agree on what you say.. Im only talking about right now.. The couple last of games.. Kovalev has been clearly our most dangerous foward this season and Koivu clearly the first line center of this team.. But right now we are in a slump and the kids work harder than our vets.. Even Komisarek is trying hard...

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Old
01-24-2006, 12:55 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
I quite agree on what you say.. Im only talking about right now.. The couple last of games.. Kovalev has been clearly our most dangerous foward this season and Koivu clearly the first line center of this team.. But right now we are in a slump and the kids work harder than our vets.. Even Komisarek is trying hard...
I'll have to jump on your Plekanec bandwaggon, he was a better NHLer then AHLer at the start of the year and right now, he looks like he's the real deal. He's one of those guys size doesnt affect at all, its time to give him the 2nd line spot and try to figure ways to shed salary. This summer, there full of good UFA defensemen for us to pick and there will undoublty be a few available via trade. We need the cap space and I hope Gainey is as big a fan of strong defensive squads as I am. IMO, defense in hockey is like the Contrabass in a combo or an orchestra. Also, we need to get Theodore to play at an elite level, I dont see another solution to our goaltender woes.

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Old
01-24-2006, 01:00 PM
  #6
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The rookies who are currently on the roster (Plekanec, Higgins for sure and probably Kostitsyn) have proved their worth and I have no concerns about their confidence. I don't doubt that Gainey will give them a lot of ice time in the second half. Perezhogin played himself off the team but I'm sure he'll be back. Streit is also a rookie but frankly I don't care what happens to him. He's a marginal player who is in Montreal by default because the Dmen as a group are shabby,

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01-24-2006, 01:06 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck
The rookies who are currently on the roster (Plekanec, Higgins for sure and probably Kostitsyn) have proved their worth and I have no concerns about their confidence. I don't doubt that Gainey will give them a lot of ice time in the second half. Perezhogin played himself off the team but I'm sure he'll be back. Streit is also a rookie but frankly I don't care what happens to him. He's a marginal player who is in Montreal by default because the Dmen as a group are shabby,
I have to agree, Plekanec and Higgins have played like veterans. If there are guys that should be playing more, its them. I'll also add that Kostitsyn is probably the most improved player out of all our prospects, if he continues to put a consistent effort, he should also recieve ice time. I'm not sure if its a good idea to put him with another rookie, but I know we should resolve the Ribeiro and Zednik situations. We know what they bring to the team and what they dont.

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Old
01-24-2006, 01:07 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
I'll have to jump on your Plekanec bandwaggon, he was a better NHLer then AHLer at the start of the year and right now, he looks like he's the real deal. He's one of those guys size doesnt affect at all, its time to give him the 2nd line spot and try to figure ways to shed salary. This summer, there full of good UFA defensemen for us to pick and there will undoublty be a few available via trade. We need the cap space and I hope Gainey is as big a fan of strong defensive squads as I am. IMO, defense in hockey is like the Contrabass in a combo or an orchestra. Also, we need to get Theodore to play at an elite level, I dont see another solution to our goaltender woes.
He was pretty good in the AHL as well... Hamiton had no wingers last season outside Higgins, the whole team sucked and Plekanec was the only one to generate scoring chances with regularity.. Plekanec is this kind of competitor born who will play the game with a high level of intensity and wont cheat to reach more pts.. He is no Ribeiro, neither Locke.

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Old
01-24-2006, 01:12 PM
  #9
Habsaku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
He was pretty good in the AHL as well... Hamiton had no wingers last season outside Higgins, the whole team sucked and Plekanec was the only one to generate scoring chances with regularity.. Plekanec is this kind of competitor born who will play the game with a high level of intensity and wont cheat to reach more pts.. He is no Ribeiro, neither Locke.
He was a very good AHLer but I never expected him to be a better NHLer then minor leaguer. That doesnt happen very much, most of the time, players lose production but I somehow think it wont happen to him. I'm pretty sure that if we had put him on the 2nd line spot, he would be our leading scorer or if not, he'd have at least 30 points. Higgins, IMO, should have a permanent spot on the third. All that needs to be resolved after that is Bonk/Zednik/Ribeiro/Sundstrom. Sundstrom has not been bad this year, in fact, he's had some very good showings but with Higgins playing the way he has and guys like Lapierre and Lemieux making strides in the AHL, it might be time to gather some picks or depth for the defense. We wouldnt get anyone out of the ordinary but sometimes having 35+ year old veterans can really help a team.

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Old
01-24-2006, 01:16 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
I have to agree, Plekanec and Higgins have played like veterans. If there are guys that should be playing more, its them. I'll also add that Kostitsyn is probably the most improved player out of all our prospects, if he continues to put a consistent effort, he should also recieve ice time. I'm not sure if its a good idea to put him with another rookie, but I know we should resolve the Ribeiro and Zednik situations. We know what they bring to the team and what they dont.
Kostitsyn's play is like the flower in the total darkness, we now can say the Habs won their gamble picking him 10th overall.. We have a special talent in our hands and the future looks extremmely bright with Him Perezhogin, Plekanec, Higgins, Komisarek, Chipchu, Lapierre, Latendresse, Grabovski, OByrn, Price and maybe his little brother..

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