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Lubomir Visnovsky

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Old
02-23-2012, 02:49 PM
  #26
Mgd31
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Josefson/Tedenby (more likely Jo)
Urbom
1st?

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Old
02-23-2012, 02:53 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I don't think Urbom and a 1st is going to cut it. If I had to guess, I'd imagine Murray would want either Merrill or Gelinas. I'm not even sure if your first even enters into the picture.
Merrill no, Gelinas surely.

so Josefson and Gelinas? I'll even give you Washington's 2nd if you want, since you believe we might not have to give up a 1st

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02-23-2012, 03:30 PM
  #28
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I'm reluctant to trade Gelinas. Not an outright refusal, though.

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02-23-2012, 03:59 PM
  #29
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Just wondering, how has Urbom been doing? I believe to remember many in Jersey being very high on him at the beginning of last season.

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Old
02-23-2012, 04:05 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Just wondering, how has Urbom been doing? I believe to remember many in Jersey being very high on him at the beginning of last season.
He's still promising, but other guys are progressing more rapidly. Larsson obviously leapfrogged him, but so has Mark Fayne (although Urbom has a higher upside and is a few years younger) and Eric Gelinas may rank above him now, as he' having a better season than Urbom this year.

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02-23-2012, 04:09 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
Merrill no, Gelinas surely.

so Josefson and Gelinas? I'll even give you Washington's 2nd if you want, since you believe we might not have to give up a 1st
That might be enough to get it done, though we may have to send a low cost minor league contract to keep a contract spot open for Schultz.

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02-23-2012, 04:14 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I think Lydman's fate was decided when Sbisa stole his job. If it doesn't happen now, then it will at the draft. Book it.
It may have made him more expendable, but it definitely didn't seal his fate by any means. People are putting too much emphasis on him being on the last pair. Lydman is still averaging about 17 mins a game and is a fixture on a much improved PK. In a perfect world we would replace him with someone making less money to play with Schultz. However he's still a valuable piece to the team. Maybe if someone offers something great for him, he may be moved. If not, I'm pretty sure Murray would be just fine with a Lydman-Schultz bottom pairing.

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02-23-2012, 04:16 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
He's still promising, but other guys are progressing more rapidly. Larsson obviously leapfrogged him, but so has Mark Fayne (although Urbom has a higher upside and is a few years younger) and Eric Gelinas may rank above him now, as he' having a better season than Urbom this year.
Thanks for the input. A defensive or two-way defenseman certainly could be something good to have along with Josefson. Doesn't sound too bad.

After picking three Swedes in the last draft, this would further help our potential transition from Finnish fans' favourites towards a Swedish ones' in a few years...

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02-23-2012, 04:19 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
It may have made him more expendable, but it definitely didn't seal his fate by any means. People are putting too much emphasis on him being on the last pair. Lydman is still averaging about 17 mins a game and is a fixture on a much improved PK. In a perfect world we would replace him with someone making less money to play with Schultz. However he's still a valuable piece to the team. Maybe if someone offers something great for him, he may be moved. If not, I'm pretty sure Murray would be just fine with a Lydman-Schultz bottom pairing.
It's three million dollars on the bottom pairing. We're a budget team and Murray isn't going to overpay when someone cheaper can do that job just as well as Toni.

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02-23-2012, 04:21 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Just wondering, how has Urbom been doing? I believe to remember many in Jersey being very high on him at the beginning of last season.
Urbom is still looking good. He is extremely aggressive offensively, and he has a decent shot. Still needs to get better with his decision making, sometimes he pinches when he shouldn't. Very good skater, and decently physical. He hasn't looked out of place the last couple times he was called up.

That said, I prefer to give him up over Gelinas, who I've liked for a while.

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02-23-2012, 04:26 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
It's three million dollars on the bottom pairing. We're a budget team and Murray isn't going to overpay when someone cheaper can do that job just as well as Toni.
Who then? IMO Murray is going to want a 4/5 guy to play with Schultz next year, not a borderline guy like Broobank. With no clear cut number one defenseman, it's much more essential to be able to count on your other 2 pairs too contribute more (like a 2a and 2b thing). I don't see any real replacements that will fill the role Lydman has that will cost much less. If he has to go to FA to get one, he's probably going to have to overpay. In a perfect world, we'd find someone for 1.5 and use the savings on forward help. Unfortunately I don't see many potential candidates who fill that role.

Now I do expect Murray to entertain offers for him, but I don't see this as a scenario where he's trying to move him. If his contract ran past next year it would make more sense. However with the large amount of space we will have next year, I don't think Lydman's 3 million is much of a concern.

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Old
02-23-2012, 04:28 PM
  #37
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Ducks needs are NHL Ready center prospects (Josefson) and defensive defenseman prospects (Merrill), which would make us good partners.

I doubt you guys would give up Merrill though, so Im not sure who fits in as another piece, especially if the first is possibly off the table because of the Kovy penalty.

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02-23-2012, 04:29 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Urbom is still looking good. He is extremely aggressive offensively, and he has a decent shot. Still needs to get better with his decision making, sometimes he pinches when he shouldn't. Very good skater, and decently physical. He hasn't looked out of place the last couple times he was called up.

That said, I prefer to give him up over Gelinas, who I've liked for a while.
Thanks to you, as well. I believe the better of the two in his own end would be more interesting, and especially getting bigger has been something Murray stated he was interested in, so, Urbom could be a pretty good fit here if we do move him. I like the Josefson/Urbom/1st package quite a bit. Maybe selling Vis will seem a little more easy after tonight's game, who knows.

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Old
02-23-2012, 04:29 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by RPGallINYAface View Post
Should be in the ballpark of what Kaberle returned last season. Probably a tad more seeing as he is not a rental and is a better player than Kaberle.
You would think, but he probably wont. Reason being is that Kaberle basically said he would go to 2-3 teams. Ultimately everyone knew it was Boston that wanted him and Burke squeezed a lot out of us for a washed up fat defenseman. No question Vishnovsky is better, but I doubt he returns the same package...unfortunately for the Ducks.

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02-23-2012, 04:29 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Thanks to you, as well. I believe the better of the two in his own end would be more interesting, and especially getting bigger has been something Murray stated he was interested in, so, Urbom could be a pretty good fit here if we do move him. I like the Josefson/Urbom/1st package quite a bit. Maybe selling Vis will seem a little more easy after tonight's game, who knows.
I really like Visnovsky, and I've wanted him in NJ for a long time, but Josefson/Urbom/1st is, in my mind, a tremendous overpayment.

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02-23-2012, 04:30 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
Who then? IMO Murray is going to want a 4/5 guy to play with Schultz next year, not a borderline guy like Broobank. With no clear cut number one defenseman, it's much more essential to be able to count on your other 2 pairs too contribute more (like a 2a and 2b thing). I don't see any real replacements that will fill the role Lydman has that will cost much less. If he has to go to FA to get one, he's probably going to have to overpay. In a perfect world, we'd find someone for 1.5 and use the savings on forward help. Unfortunately I don't see many potential candidates who fill that role.

Now I do expect Murray to entertain offers for him, but I don't see this as a scenario where he's trying to move him. If his contract ran past next year it would make more sense. However with the large amount of space we will have next year, I don't think Lydman's 3 million is much of a concern.
There was a report a month ago that our scouts were taking a long look at Holzer. He's basically a young third pairing stay-at-home defenseman that shouldn't cost much. I'm sure there are similar options on the table.

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02-23-2012, 04:32 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
I really like Visnovsky, and I've wanted him in NJ for a long time, but Josefson/Urbom/1st is, in my mind, a tremendous overpayment.
Might well be - I don't quite see myself in a position to judge that perfectly due to a lack of detailed knowledge on Josefson and Urbom. I was just going with it since it's been mentioned a few times. A downgrade, preferably on the draft pick, would work if our scouts liked the two guys, I suppose.

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Old
02-23-2012, 04:34 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
There was a report a month ago that our scouts were taking a long look at Holzer. He's basically a young third pairing stay-at-home defenseman that shouldn't cost much. I'm sure there are similar options on the table.
So you think running two rookies on the third pairing is a recipe for anything but destroying both players' confidence and flirting with another lottery pick?

You're also overlooking the PK. Lydman eats huge minutes on the PK.

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02-23-2012, 04:40 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selanne138 View Post
Ducks needs are NHL Ready center prospects (Josefson) and defensive defenseman prospects (Merrill), which would make us good partners.

I doubt you guys would give up Merrill though, so Im not sure who fits in as another piece, especially if the first is possibly off the table because of the Kovy penalty.
Correct. Devils management is pretty high on Merrill. He won't be moved. He's more of an offensive defenceman anyway, Devils fans are hoping he can QB our PP someday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
I really like Visnovsky, and I've wanted him in NJ for a long time, but Josefson/Urbom/1st is, in my mind, a tremendous overpayment.
It probably is, but if Lou believes he's the missing piece to make us a contender, I'd bite the bullet and do it. This despite the fact I've been saying for weeks that we need to hold onto all our centres as insurance for each other.

As for the first round pick and the accompanying Kovy penalty considerations, maybe the Ducks could be persuaded to take the Washington second instead, which is looking like it will be around #45 or better, judging by the current trajectory for Washington.

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02-23-2012, 04:41 PM
  #45
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So you think running two rookies on the third pairing is a recipe for anything but destroying both players' confidence and flirting with another lottery pick?

You're also overlooking the PK. Lydman eats huge minutes on the PK.
It's the third pairing, and they aren't both going to be broken in at the same time. Holzer would be up with Brookbank this season. Schultz probably won't be up until next season at the earliest. Don't let the hype carry you away, Schultz still needs polishing.

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02-23-2012, 04:57 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
It's three million dollars on the bottom pairing. We're a budget team and Murray isn't going to overpay when someone cheaper can do that job just as well as Toni.
I can't think of anyone Murray could possibly bring in that's cheaper than Lydman who is just as good. If we deal Lydman and shell out $1.5M for his replacement we're going to get an Andy Sutton type player on our third pairing. The fact that Fowler is on his ELC and Sbisa is only making $2M should more than offset Lydman being paid $3M.

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02-23-2012, 05:06 PM
  #47
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I can't think of anyone Murray could possibly bring in that's cheaper than Lydman who is just as good. If we deal Lydman and shell out $1.5M for his replacement we're going to get an Andy Sutton type player on our third pairing. The fact that Fowler is on his ELC and Sbisa is only making $2M should more than offset Lydman being paid $3M.
We don't need someone as good as Lydman on the third pairing. Hell, we might get his replacement packaged in with what we're trading for.

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02-23-2012, 05:12 PM
  #48
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We don't need someone as good as Lydman on the third pairing. Hell, we might get his replacement packaged in with what we're trading for.
We certainly need him for the PK, him and Beauchemin are huge reasons our PK has been as good as it has. And our defense isn't exactly top of the line, we need all the help we can get on the blueline to make up for the fact that we have no true #1 guy.

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02-23-2012, 05:16 PM
  #49
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We certainly need him for the PK, him and Beauchemin are huge reasons our PK has been as good as it has. And our defense isn't exactly top of the line, we need all the help we can get on the blueline to make up for the fact that we have no true #1 guy.
So, even if we get a top 6 center in return, we can't trade Lydman because we might have to use someone else on the PK that isn't as effective? I see the second line as a much bigger problem for us than the current state of our PK. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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02-23-2012, 05:20 PM
  #50
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I don't think the Ducks will trade Visnovsky and Lydman. With that said I think the Ducks will move Visnovsky because they will get a better return and Schultz can move the puck and play on the PP.

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