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All-Purpose Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread Part 4

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Old
02-23-2012, 07:54 PM
  #976
Pinkfloyd
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Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
Clearly adding one of the better two-way forwards in the NHL and getting rid of a defenseman who is objectively terrible doesn't make them one bit better. I guess Carter's no Brian Campbell.

I wish I was as delusional about the Sharks as you are.
lol your use of the word objective is so hilarious.

My reasoning is simple. Kings were already great defensively. Carter isn't going to dramatically improve them, if at all...same with losing Johnson. They're are already about as good as you're going to get in that aspect. Offensively, they're not any better and it's not going to matter how much talent they add because their coaching is not conducive to scoring goals in this league.

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02-23-2012, 08:03 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
lol your use of the word objective is so hilarious.

My reasoning is simple. Kings were already great defensively. Carter isn't going to dramatically improve them, if at all...same with losing Johnson. They're are already about as good as you're going to get in that aspect. Offensively, they're not any better and it's not going to matter how much talent they add because their coaching is not conducive to scoring goals in this league.
Right.

And that statement is all based on your gut feelings and observations yeah? Seeing as how you have nothing to support those claims.

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02-23-2012, 08:06 PM
  #978
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Right.

And that statement is all based on your gut feelings and observations yeah? Seeing as how you have nothing to support those claims.
Well, one would assume that Jeff Carter is the same player that he was when he was acquired by Columbus. I didn't see their offense and defense improve dramatically upon his arrival like one would expect from one of the best two-way forwards in the league, right? Maybe it's more based upon what you have as a team and what your philosophy is as a team, for better or for worse.

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02-23-2012, 08:37 PM
  #979
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First of all, no coaching style in the league creates a team whose actual talent level is a 5.9% shooting percentage at even strength. This was a team that shot 8.5% last year and it's not like Terry Murray coaches a run-and-gun style. The Kings have been enormously unlucky on offense this season and that SH% will regress towards the mean...of course that has nothing to do with Carter or Johnson.

The real improvement from ditching JJ and adding Carter is that the Kings' shot differential will improve significantly. They're already 8th in the league at possession but adding a guy who has consistently been a positive possession player despite facing top competition and starting an overwhelming majority of his shifts in his own zone in Carter and dumping a guy who bleeds shots against like nobody's business despite being as protected as possible will improve the Kings' possession play as a whole. That's significant because even if I buy your implied premise that the Kings are a 5.9% shooting team (which I don't obviously...but fans always espouse the view that whatever has happened before in terms of results will continue to happen into the future...until, of course, it doesn't) the trade will create more shots for and relieve Quick of a commensurate amount of shots against, ultimately improving their -6 goal differential.

No one player in the NHL can come in and substantially improve a team but as far as trades go this is an overwhelmingly positive one for L.A.

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02-23-2012, 08:38 PM
  #980
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Carter is actually going to be motivated to play there. His level of play is gonna go through the roof in LA.

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02-23-2012, 08:38 PM
  #981
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Would Carter improve their scoring?

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02-23-2012, 08:46 PM
  #982
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You're overlooking two things. One, the guy who gets benched up front to make room for Jeff Carter. Two, the guy that has to come in and play in Jack Johnson's place on the blue line. Now, the first one isn't going to matter all that much because you're essentially pushing down Jarret Stoll and pushing out someone like Trevor Lewis.

However, Johnson's replacement on the blue line is what will be interesting to watch. Johnson was their 2nd most used defenseman. Bringing up Voynov is likely what will happen but how will they allocate the responsibilities to fill the void. You can't simply put all that on Voynov and expect better results. And the supporting cast of d-men on LA is not all that impressive past Doughty in terms of bringing offense and defense. Defensively, they are still very good with Scuderi, Greene, and Mitchell. However, you're looking at Voynov, Martinez, and Drewiske who will be the ones asked to step up. Good luck with that.

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02-23-2012, 08:48 PM
  #983
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Would Carter improve their scoring?
Some.

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02-23-2012, 08:50 PM
  #984
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02-23-2012, 08:56 PM
  #985
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LA fans said their puck moving depth is fine. Johnson wasn't even scoring when he was there, he was giving up goals. Voynov played pretty well when he got his chance. LA's a better team after this trade.

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02-23-2012, 08:56 PM
  #986
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I think Voynov will be better than Johnson in the very near future. I am really, really pissed about this trade. We can only hope that by the time the Kings get on track it will be too late for them to do anything.

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02-23-2012, 08:58 PM
  #987
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Because the trade was lopsided, it does make LA better, but not enough to make much of a difference. Re-uniting Carter and Richards for starters is a recipe for disaster. They will give up less goals, and score a few more, but I'm not terribly concerned about them.

The odds we are getting Nash just went up dramatically though heh.

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02-23-2012, 08:59 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
I think Voynov will be better than Johnson in the very near future. I am really, really pissed about this trade. We can only hope that by the time the Kings get on track it will be too late for them to do anything.
Voynov is already better than Johnson defensively and it won't take long for him to be just as good offensively.

There's very little doubt this trade made them a better team - however, w/ the rumors that they may be moving Brown, issues may run a bit deeper there than scoring woes.

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02-23-2012, 09:05 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Because the trade was lopsided, it does make LA better, but not enough to make much of a difference. Re-uniting Carter and Richards for starters is a recipe for disaster. They will give up less goals, and score a few more, but I'm not terribly concerned about them.

The odds we are getting Nash just went up dramatically though heh.
Maybe, but I have a feeling the Jackets will wait until the offseason.

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02-23-2012, 09:06 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Voynov is already better than Johnson defensively and it won't take long for him to be just as good offensively.

There's very little doubt this trade made them a better team - however, w/ the rumors that they may be moving Brown, issues may run a bit deeper there than scoring woes.
You're assuming that just because he may be better defensively than Johnson that he won't get burned just as badly with increased responsibilities and better competition levels.

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02-23-2012, 09:07 PM
  #991
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Maybe, but I have a feeling the Jackets will wait until the offseason.
But will Doug wait. Or Sather for that matter.

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02-23-2012, 09:10 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
You're assuming that just because he may be better defensively than Johnson that he won't get burned just as badly with increased responsibilities and better competition levels.
No, I'm not - but it's nice that you assume I am.

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02-23-2012, 09:14 PM
  #993
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No, I'm not - but it's nice that you assume I am.
Yes you are. You're assuming he's better and you're assuming he will be better.

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02-23-2012, 09:14 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by sjshark91 View Post
But will Doug wait. Or Sather for that matter.
Well, you never know what can happen between now and the offseason. Lets say the Leafs make a run and all of a sudden Toronto is an attractive destination for him.

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02-23-2012, 09:21 PM
  #995
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Yes you are. You're assuming he's better and you're assuming he will be better.
No, I'm not.

If you've watched him play you would see it on the ice and if there weren't waiver issues he woudl've been on LA's blueline for most of the seas. He's seen roughly the same quality of comp as Johnson this year and has fared much, much better.

If you think I'm just assuming things block me and ignore my posts, you just seem all bent out of shape because some people think this is a great move for the Kings that make them a better team and you disagree - get over it.

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02-23-2012, 09:36 PM
  #996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Voynov is already better than Johnson defensively and it won't take long for him to be just as good offensively.

There's very little doubt this trade made them a better team - however, w/ the rumors that they may be moving Brown, issues may run a bit deeper there than scoring woes.
I agree. I think Voynov is a phenomenal player and CBJ should have refused to make a trade without including him. I'm really pissed about this trade. It 100% makes LA better and once their bad luck turns they are going to be a really, really good team.

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02-23-2012, 09:38 PM
  #997
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No, I'm not.

If you've watched him play you would see it on the ice and if there weren't waiver issues he woudl've been on LA's blueline for most of the seas. He's seen roughly the same quality of comp as Johnson this year and has fared much, much better.

If you think I'm just assuming things block me and ignore my posts, you just seem all bent out of shape because some people think this is a great move for the Kings that make them a better team and you disagree - get over it.
Actually, you are. Voynov has not seen the same responsibilities. Just because he's had some time at the same level doesn't mean it is equal. He's played 33 games in his career. It's being disingenuous to believe that he has had the same responsibilities as Jack Johnson and disingenuous to say you're not assuming that the sample size means he is better at certain things and will be better later on.

I actually believe it is a good value for the Kings. I disagree with how people view the impact of it.

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02-23-2012, 09:44 PM
  #998
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IIRC, Voynov played some games when Doughty was out with a concussion earlier this season. Not sure where he fit in, but those are tougher minutes for sure.

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02-23-2012, 09:45 PM
  #999
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