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Don't get me wrong he is a fine player but he and Gorges has similar value so he is more like a 3rd D to me.
Kostitsyn and a 2nd is the most I'd be willing to give up.
You obviously don't watch a lot of Sharks game to even judge how effective Vlasic is. You're contradicting yourself too, you say Gorges and Vlasic have similar value...I've looked up game logs and I see Gorges floating around the 1st-2nd pairing quite often, If that's the case then why are you underrating Vlasic to the point where you'd imply he's a number 5/6?
Based on what you said, you shouldn't be surprised that Vlasic is a first pairing D if Gorges is also utilized that way in Montreal.
There is not a single thing that Gorges does better than Vlasic. Considering that Vlasic is also three years younger as well, that's not likely going to change.
Oh really? I think the league's BEST shot blocker would disagree with you. Gorges also hits a heck of a lot more than Vlasic. Also, being +13 on a -7 team is more impressive than being +16 on a team that's +23.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd
I can understand an argument for Subban's value being similar to Vlasic's. I don't necessarily agree with it but I can understand it. However, what exactly makes you think that Pacioretty is close to value to Couture? Pacioretty is doing well this year with 46 points in 58 games but Couture is outproducing him 51 points in 58 games and this ignores last year when Couture had a better point-per-game average than Pacioretty. This also ignores the defensive play between the two which favors Couture in a landslide.
Same age, Couture has 2 more goals and 5 more points and gets slightly more ice time than Pacioretty. That's similar value. And yes he had more PPG last year, .70 compared to .65, pretty similar value.
nothing that mtl has that the sharks would be interested in.... vlasic IS our best shutdown D and will be a shark for a very long time. having said that here is my counter offer:
We get it the habs have only paciorrety Price and Subban of interest and if they want to get a player even if it's a 3rd liner they need to give up one of them.
I don't even know why habs fan bother to post anymore.
Gorges is close value for Vlasic since Vlasic is not bringing on offense and is a good shutdown dman. I would never trade Paciorretty or Subban to get a Gorges type player.
And people saying we overrate our assets... You guys are funny it,s not overrating assets when you say guys like Eller Plekanec Gorges Bourque Kostitsyn have some value it's the truth.
I think Montreal needs to add Price and a couple of first round picks...
Seriously, I have no idea how good Vlasic really is, but you can't be asking for 2 of our top 3 players in exchange for any one guy and a 2nd rounder, unless that one guy is elite. I don't think any single asset on the Sharks is worth that much, period.
Vlasic and Subban have to be roughly even, given their age and offensive numbers (and I'm taking for granted that Vlasic is as good defensively as is claimed, which compares well to Subban), so adding Pacioretty for a 2nd makes no sense whatsoever.
The offer is like asking for Logan Couture and Vlasic in exchange for Subban and a 2nd...
(to be clear: I think Couture is probably worth more than Pacioretty, and Subban a tad more than Vlasic, but I think both pairs are of approximately even value)
Vlasic has been nothing short of amazing this year. He leads the Sharks in plus minus. He is a true shut down defenseman who is starting to find his offensive touch. There is a reason he plays top minutes on the Sharks. Now I haven't seen a lot of Pacioretty this year, but I will tell you that Couture is worth a lot more in value. His smarts for a 22 yr old are unreal. To be honest I wouldn't trade Vlasic and Couture unless im getting an unreal return.
Oh really? I think the league's BEST shot blocker would disagree with you. Gorges also hits a heck of a lot more than Vlasic. Also, being +13 on a -7 team is more impressive than being +16 on a team that's +23.
Same age, Couture has 2 more goals and 5 more points and gets slightly more ice time than Pacioretty. That's similar value. And yes he had more PPG last year, .70 compared to .65, pretty similar value.
Quit overvaluing your players by so much.
I'd venture to say that the Habs get more shots against when Gorges is on the ice compared to Vlasic so there should be more opportunities for him to block shots. And the use of +/- is a nice touch. Ultimately meaningless but a nice touch.
As for Couture/Pacioretty, you're ignoring the defensive side. Couture is better on both sides.
We get it the habs have only paciorrety Price and Subban of interest and if they want to get a player even if it's a 3rd liner they need to give up one of them.
I don't even know why habs fan bother to post anymore.
Gorges is close value for Vlasic since Vlasic is not bringing on offense and is a good shutdown dman. I would never trade Paciorretty or Subban to get a Gorges type player.
And people saying we overrate our assets... You guys are funny it,s not overrating assets when you say guys like Eller Plekanec Gorges Bourque Kostitsyn have some value it's the truth.
Vlasic has 19p, Subban has 23p. Vlasic is incredible defensively. We are not over-rating him anymore than you are over-rating Subban. Vlasic is a #2 d-man, that has a lot of value.
That's perfect because there's no way I'd make that swap, between Boyle and Burns and Demers and Braun we don't need Subban at all, he'd barely even get ice time on our PP and is the last guy I'd like to see on the ice to protect a lead except Colin White.
Also, the +/- for the other post a little above, Vlasic's still top on our team in +/-, just like Gorges is for the Canadiens, doesn't mean it's more impressive for Gorges looking at those numbers. How about on our +23 as a team, there's a ton that came on the PP, which is 3rd in the NHL.
There's a reason we wouldn't want to trade Vlasic or Couture for Nash. I don't think Columbus would be really happy with getting Pacioretty for Nash, but they'd love to get their hands on Couture.
