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Old
02-20-2012, 12:03 PM
  #101
Tim Tebow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I can't address all points cause I'm heading out but regarding the goalies crapping the bed in the shootout, it's simple, practise it. The goalies are the guys with all the pressure in the shootout because they're out there by themselves till it's over. Shooters are out there for 5 seconds each and they're done. If the goalies can't practise, they don't have confidence.

Dry Island was stupid and intrusive in players' lives. When the story came out it was done so to make Richards and Carter look bad, but without naming names Richards said veterans didn't sign up for it. So we can assume that Kimmo, Pronger, Briere and others also didn't join. It was a stupid idea that had no benefit except to cause a rift in the team.

With Lavi's decision to put Briere on against Krejci, yeah, it likely wouldn't have made a difference but when something is so obviously not working and it's in your control to fix it, fix it. Instead, he kept throwing out there to get smoked.
Most shootout success isn't created by practice. It's almost entirely created by accurate scouting reports. Before every shootout you may notice coaches and sometimes players will say what a goalie or a skaters tendencies are, strengths and weaknesses. Skaters usually know what they are doing before they start and goalies usually know what they are looking for before the skater starts. Practice may help a little bit if you do it before every game with scouting reports for the specific players you think you might see. Not every team does this because it's time consuming and they may feel they have more important things to practice then going on a hunch feeling on what might happen only for it to not happen about 80% of the time.

That is what I said, you can't enforce something like Dry Island. So how does a coach prepare a team for an afternoon game better? Keep in mind like I said you cannot enforce things like Dry Island meaning players just have to show up for mandatory meetings, practices, and games. So what special thing does Lavi have to do in any of those 3 places that makes players play better in the afternoon? Keep in mind many players in all sports really will say they are used to following a strict schedule and afternoon games throw those schedules off so it sometimes takes them a little longer to get fully into the games. The Phillies have the same issue, it's seen in basketball also, some football teams literally change practice times around to account for it sometimes (since they have a full week to prepare). It's why most sports stat sites include a split for Day and Night games, some players have a noticeable difference in production. But like I said if you know the secret to it feel free to share it lol. I don't see how anyone can entirely pin that on the coach when he has such limited power in the players personal lives.

I should also add before you continue to blame Dry Island for tearing apart the Flyers keep in mind they had numerous other issues unrelated to Dry Island. These kind of team unity experiments happen on almost every sports team in all sports not only in professional levels but on college levels as well as high school levels. Some teams have literally vowed off sex for the season completely. Some do partying. Some do alcohol. Some do things involving money. You may remember on a smaller scale way back with the Flyers under Hitchcock they decided to shave there heads for some stupid team bonding thing. Star player Simon Gagne refused to participate in this. It didn't rip the team apart even if some players would have preferred he did. For a locker to split like it did last year it has to be for some real reasons. Steve Downie is the only player I have seen overreact to someone not participating in a team bonding event. Dry Island was not the issue.

Who would you have played Briere against? Feel free to look at the Bruins roster. Given ice time it was basically Krejci or Bergeron. Unless you want to cut Giroux and Briere's ice time so they can play only against Peverley. Why to play Briere's line against Krejci over Bergerons?

1. Flyers are losing in every game and need offense, Giroux and Briere are the best offensive players on the team.
2. Bergeron is one of the best players in the entire NHL at faceoffs at over 60% while Krejci was just a hair over 51%.
3. Bergeron is one of the best defensive players in the NHL and the best shutdown center on the Bruins. Why would we play our best offensive line who needs to score against their best defenders?
4. Don't forget who was playing goalie for us. They were giving up weak goals too.

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02-23-2012, 11:11 PM
  #102
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I love Lavi, but I can't help but get the feeling that something's gotta give. The constant win/loss pattern this season is troubling at best. I'm of the belief that Lavi had something to do with the choice to rebuild this past off-season (personality clashes, etc), and if it results in an embarrassing end to this season, I think all fingers will be pointed at him.

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02-23-2012, 11:15 PM
  #103
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Do the Flyers ever do any scouting on backup goalies? It's insane that every backup we play looks incredible. It's no longer a fluke thing.

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02-23-2012, 11:18 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SedinSandwich View Post
I love Lavi, but I can't help but get the feeling that something's gotta give. The constant win/loss pattern this season is troubling at best. I'm of the belief that Lavi had something to do with the choice to rebuild this past off-season (personality clashes, etc), and if it results in an embarrassing end to this season, I think all fingers will be pointed at him.
I'm curious. What did you expect when the team is full of rookies, our best defensive forward is a 19 year old rookie, and our defense consists of Kimmo and a bunch of complementary players?

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02-23-2012, 11:20 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
I'm curious. What did you expect when the team is full of rookies, our best defensive forward is a 19 year old rookie, and our defense consists of Kimmo and a bunch of complementary players?
I expect the coach to realize this, modify the system to play far more safe and defensive hockey to counter the defensive shortcomings.

Nope....run and gun baby. Its all good when we score 7.

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02-23-2012, 11:24 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Do the Flyers ever do any scouting on backup goalies? It's insane that every backup we play looks incredible. It's no longer a fluke thing.
No traffic, no rebounds, no forecheck. Team made it way too easy on Dubnyk and that shaky Oil defense tonight.

Soft, finesse, ******** game. About 40% of the energy they showed in Winnipeg.

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02-23-2012, 11:29 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
I expect the coach to realize this, modify the system to play far more safe and defensive hockey to counter the defensive shortcomings and underacheiving goaltending

Nope....run and gun baby. Its all good when we score 7.
Ditto! + a little fix

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02-23-2012, 11:38 PM
  #108
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Lavvy needs to start holding veterans accountable. Start benching guys like Coburn, Briere and co. after they make dumb plays. I think he's already lost the room because it doesn't seem he has much say in what they do. He claims his system is no 'run-gun,' and that it's a lot better defensively than what we have witnessed... well, where the hell is the improvement? I see a GAA and PK that is slipping to bottom 5 in the league, and STILL, the players only think 'attack, attack, attack...' Lavvy is on very thin ice, and hopefully he's gone by next season.

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02-23-2012, 11:44 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Do the Flyers ever do any scouting on backup goalies? It's insane that every backup we play looks incredible. It's no longer a fluke thing.
i think theres no question the rest of the league knows what to do when we come calling to town..

hey Philly's here, bring in the backup...

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02-23-2012, 11:50 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
No traffic, no rebounds, no forecheck. Team made it way too easy on Dubnyk and that shaky Oil defense tonight.

Soft, finesse, ******** game. About 40% of the energy they showed in Winnipeg.
Yeah, I agree with this. We just played a bad game tonight. Sure, we fired a good amount of shots at Dubnyk, but they were (for the most part) fairly easy ones. He wasn't doing anything remotely what Pavelec did in the Jets game. In that game we crashed the net, were first on the rebounds and played great in general.

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02-23-2012, 11:51 PM
  #111
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Young team is inconsistent?


Inconceivable.

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02-24-2012, 12:00 AM
  #112
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I REALLY like Lavy, and he does have a VERY young team...but it's a young talented team, with a lot of new, young players who are perfect for his uptempo forechecking team. That being said...I've been disappointed with this "giddy up and ****ing go" offense all season. I really do believe it's a big reason Bryz has struggled, and a lot of the players have echoed those sentiments, Jagr most recently.

I'd love to see it modifed in some way, to have the intense 2 man forecheck, but keep the defensemen at home, and limit their multitude of mistakes.

As of right now, I don't see any way how Lavy can outlast Bryz at this rate. They agreed to pay Bryz a lot of money for at least 7 of his 9 years...the coach WILL have to tailor his game plan to ensure the success of the organization's investment, or he's gone.

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02-24-2012, 02:05 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Young team is inconsistent?


Inconceivable.
Someone out there will tell you we're consistently better than other teams both offensively and defensively.

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02-24-2012, 06:48 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Young team is inconsistent?


Inconceivable.
There are enough veterans out there who are just as inconsistent as the young guys. Too many guys like Jagr, Giroux, Briere who suck at defence, then you have Coburn, Carle, Mez who are supposed to be good at defence but are too bipolar. These guys need to take some responsibility.

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02-24-2012, 07:06 AM
  #115
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Its comes down to, are the vets on this team still listening to lavy and are they buying into his system! Clearly that answer is no! He has lost this team! There is only so many time you can beet up a coke mechine and it still have an effect!

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02-24-2012, 07:25 AM
  #116
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I know it's been said millions of times, I just don't understand why he still plays Shelley over Rinaldo.

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02-24-2012, 07:34 AM
  #117
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I have to say that I disagree with some of the lines Lavi is putting out there when we are losing. He needs to change lines better when game is not going our way. Same goes for our d-sive paring. Coburn and Timonen were bad yesterday. Especially Coburn. Still no changes were made. I feel like he does not double shift players that came to play. If Read is having a bad game you move him off Briere line. Over all I was disappointed with some of the decisions.

I would like Flyers to get a coach that works strickly with d-men. Mesz, Carle, Coburn are getting out of control at times.

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02-24-2012, 07:48 AM
  #118
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Wouldn't mind switching up the lines either. They need to get Briere going.

Simmonds-Giroux-Jagr
Hartnell-Briere-Read
JVR-Schenn-Voracek
Rinaldo-Couturier-Talbot

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02-24-2012, 07:54 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
I know it's been said millions of times, I just don't understand why he still plays Shelley over Rinaldo.
Maybe Rinaldo has some minor injury? Or it's just that if we are going to keep Shelley on the roster, for whatever reason, it's good to give him a game at least once in a while. It's not like Rinaldo's been sitting in the press box that much.

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I have to say that I disagree with some of the lines Lavi is putting out there when we are losing. He needs to change lines better when game is not going our way. Same goes for our d-sive paring. Coburn and Timonen were bad yesterday. Especially Coburn. Still no changes were made. I feel like he does not double shift players that came to play. If Read is having a bad game you move him off Briere line. Over all I was disappointed with some of the decisions.

I would like Flyers to get a coach that works strickly with d-men. Mesz, Carle, Coburn are getting out of control at times.
They have Kevin McCarthy who works as a coach for the ds, I think.

I agree somewhat with what you say, but at the same time, one of the advantages of our roster structure is that you can play all four lines (minus Shelley, yesterday) fairly evenly. Just roll them out there and they should be wearing the opponents down as the game goes on, since they can play with more speed and energy than teams where you mostly use the top 2-3 lines. If you start double shifting too much (Wellwood was sat at times in the third period as well, I believe), you'll risk to disrupt the lines that has found chemistry, as well.

I also don't think that Read was quite as bad as some of the posts in the GDT indicates that he was. Sure, his offense has dried up, but he's still pretty dependable defensively. That they trust him to be the third guy on a line with Brière and Jagr says a lot about how highly they think of him.

On defense, I wouldn't mind seeing some changes though. Timonen-Coburn have been together for a long time now, and for the most time they are doing a real good job, but I think it's time to break them up. Pair Coburn with Grossman and create a shutdown pairing. Timonen-Kubina could be a good pairing as well, I think. Sure, it's not the fastest one, but they are bouth good enough positionally that I don't think it should create too much problems. Also, we're fairly often in the offensive zone when Timonen's on the ice I think (I remember reading some stat about it, maybe it's changed though...) and if he could pass the puck to Kubina instead of Coburn on the blue line, that might not be so bad. That leaves Meszaros-Carle however... They should be good enough to form a good pairing, I just hope they can play that way consistently.

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02-24-2012, 08:17 AM
  #120
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it's about time

everyone else (except the two goaltenders of course) has been blamed

might as well make a thread about the intermission zamboni operator too

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02-24-2012, 08:20 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
They have Kevin McCarthy who works as a coach for the ds, I think.
Not sure what kind of job he is doing with Coburn, Mesz and Carle. Take away Pronger and Timonen and these guys are below average d-men.
Is Coburn 4.5M d-men? Everyone wants to see "angry" Coburn but it happens twice a season.
We have McCarthy, Berube and yesterday I saw Riley Cote coaching kids in pregame show.. wtf?
I’d like to ask Berube what is going on with PK. I mean it was good when Pronger was here but now we can actually use some coaching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
I also don't think that Read was quite as bad as some of the posts in the GDT indicates that he was. Sure, his offense has dried up, but he's still pretty dependable defensively. That they trust him to be the third guy on a line with Brière and Jagr says a lot about how highly they think of him.
Read was not bad, at the same time what was he doing on 6:4 PP playing point in the end of the game? That's just average coaching. That's just one example.
If Read is not going double shift JVR, Simmonds hell put Giroux on RW a few times. Maybe use Hartnell.
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On defense, I wouldn't mind seeing some changes though. Timonen-Coburn have been together for a long time now, and for the most time they are doing a real good job, but I think it's time to break them up. Pair Coburn with Grossman and create a shutdown pairing. Timonen-Kubina could be a good pairing as well, I think. Sure, it's not the fastest one, but they are bouth good enough positionally that I don't think it should create too much problems. Also, we're fairly often in the offensive zone when Timonen's on the ice I think (I remember reading some stat about it, maybe it's changed though...) and if he could pass the puck to Kubina instead of Coburn on the blue line, that might not be so bad. That leaves Meszaros-Carle however... They should be good enough to form a good pairing, I just hope they can play that way consistently.
I wasn't going to go into details but yes, something like that. Change things around. ****.. we losing anyway.

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02-24-2012, 09:22 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
There are enough veterans out there who are just as inconsistent as the young guys. Too many guys like Jagr, Giroux, Briere who suck at defence, then you have Coburn, Carle, Mez who are supposed to be good at defence but are too bipolar. These guys need to take some responsibility.
This is true, but for a team that wasn't supposed to be real contenders until next season, the team's record is coming around to where it should be.

Coburn, Carle, and Mez's inconsistencies are of no shock. This is the book on these guys.

Giroux has never been considered as a two-way forward. He doesn't always kill you on defense, but he's not a great defensive player. It's also his first year of being "the man." That takes it's toll. Not totally excusable, but a reason nevertheless. Being the star player in a big market isn't easy. We're about 2 years away from his big extension in the middle of being run out of town by the media.

And how many people thought Jagr would be consistent for an entire season at age 39-40? The goal was to replace Ville Leino's offense, and it looks like he's going to be right around Leino's 53 points, unless he gets hurt again.

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02-24-2012, 10:47 AM
  #123
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I have an isles friend who said enjoy your 3 years with Lavi when we got him. Basically said he gets tuned out after 3, short term boon guy. Same thing happened in Car.
If we are going to do it, this offeseason is a good time with Carlyle available. If Tor doesn't make it Wilson might get the axe and maybe he goes there?

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02-24-2012, 10:51 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
I have an isles friend who said enjoy your 3 years with Lavi when we got him. Basically said he gets tuned out after 3, short term boon guy. Same thing happened in Car.
If we are going to do it, this offeseason is a good time with Carlyle available. If Tor doesn't make it Wilson might get the axe and maybe he goes there?
Wilson was extended.

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02-24-2012, 11:01 AM
  #125
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Almost any coach is a short-term guy. I think we all know that we're closer to the end of Lavy's tenure than the beginning. However, I don't think that's soon. After trading Carter and Richards last summer, Snider took the coach over the players for the first time. If he lets Lavy go (he's only got 1 year left on his contract I think), he's going to be sitting in front of camera deflecting too many tough questions about himself.

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